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Braid Straight To Your Lure


Guest Kendaric

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Guest Kendaric

I had an interesting conversation with a person, who I respect very much when it comes to lure fishing for Barra and the like.

He has caught more Barra than I have had cooked breakfast's, and has the photos to prove it.

He told me that he fishes braid straight to his lures.  A little unconventional I thought.

He has experimented over years with the differences between running an mono leader vs braid straight to the lure, and reckons braid straight to the lure is better.

His reasoning was that the fish (at least Barra, Threadfin and Mangrove Jack) don't know the difference, and he has lost more fish, running a mono leader.  He said that the accuracy of casting lures for pin point presentation is lost, when the jointer knot has to bump through the rods line guides upon casting, and this also weakens the knot over many casts.  

I have converted over to running braid straight to the lure for over 2 years now, and I have not noticed any difference with strike rates.  I troll far more than I cast, but casting now 'flows' far better than when running a long mono leader.  I have caught the likes of Barra, Threadfin, Mackerel, Cod, and Trevally effortlessly since.

If going for these species and the like, you could save yourself a lot of hassle, and try running braid straight to your lure.  

 

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Fluro leaders are used for two key reasons:

  1. Harder for fish to see
  2. Abrasion resistance.

It is well documented that braid is not as abrasion resistant. It also offers no stretch, which can actually cause you to lose fish.

As for the casting accuracy and what "flows" better through the guides; it sounds like you are using a clunky connection. If this is the case, I would suggest looking at alternative slim connections like the FG Knot. Tying a knot in braid (or any line) results in a weak spot, potentially weakening the line by up to 50%. The FG Knot is less of a knot and more of a Chinese finger trap that grips onto the leader. The result is the effort required to break the line (line and leader) may actually be significantly higher as a result of the only knot being in the heavier leader.

 

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Guest Kendaric

'But I find when the fish are a bit finicky the leader comes in handy'

Absolutely, horses for courses, but the post didn't indicate that type of fishing.

'Fluro leaders are used for two key reasons:

  1. Harder for fish to see
  2. Abrasion resistance.

It is well documented that braid is not as abrasion resistant. It also offers no stretch, which can actually cause you to lose fish.'

Fluro line advantage is mostly marketing hype, though it may have some benefit in clear shallow water bream fishing - but I have not found it such, straight standard mono to the lure for that one.  Even one of the fishing magazine editors said similar.  We tried that one between two of us ( a mate and myself), on a school of bream in knee deep water in Wathumba creek, and it made no difference.

The length of 1 or 2 metres of mono leader stretch is so negligible, it makes no difference really - but yes, I know Barra fisherman that have gone back to full mono as they loose less fish that way due to stretch factor, and it makes the outfit more forgiving.  Try going back to a fibreglass/carbon composite as this will often solve the problem.  I wont use a full carbon rod anymore.  

'I would suggest looking at alternative slim connections like the FG Knot.'

A great knot for sure, but it too will suffer.

'If you are in the trees a leader is essential braid does not hack it in among snags.'

I have found otherwise.  Yes, like a mono leader, sometimes you have to replace the frayed bit of line, but I've had fish pull me into the snags longer than the average mono leader.

 

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Man I love fishing discussions :D Much more interesting than office talk about ITIL frameworks that's for sure..

I think what you've hit on is that a lot of the time, sticking with straight braid doesn't make a difference. When the fish are on the chew and you're on top of them, braid straight through will do the job.

But you've also hit on the other point.

" Fluro line advantage is mostly marketing hype, though it may have some benefit in clear shallow water bream fishing "

Now - don't get me wrong, bream fishos are the butt of many fisho's jokes for being idiots spending ridiculous amounts of money and time chasing a bread and butter fish that you can just as easily (if not even easier) catch on bread and a handline. But - these guys have spent many years honing their skills and making incremental improvements to get the edge over every other fisho in the comps. How do they do that? By applying the percentage game.

By making incremental small percentage changes to everything they do, they increase their chances of increasing their catch rate and success.

It might only apply a 3% increase (1% for visibility, 1% stretch, 1% abrasion) in your chance of hooking or landing your fish, but you continue to add small % differences to everything you do and all of a sudden, you've increased your chances to 10 or 20%.

To your point that the knot losing strength after lots of casting, yep - there is a weak point at the knot but you can do things to mitigate. Make the smallest knot possible - FG or PR where possible, slim beauty (for me) when dealing with <8lb. Tie your knot well the first time. Retie your knots at least once during a long day of casting. If you see fraying and can hear your knot sliding through every time, retie.

So - my thoughts are. For the punter who is throwing out basic gear, braid straight to lure will be fine. For the fisho who is all about getting every edge possible to increase their chances, fluoro or mono leader when using braided line is essential.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Do$tylz said:

Man I love fishing discussions :D Much more interesting than office talk about ITIL frameworks that's for sure.

Bahahaha. I'm with you there @Do$tylz. That stuff is so dry, unlike a good fishing forum "discussion" about the best knot to tie braid to mono. We have to keep fluorocarbon leaders for that reason alone. Next up, the loop knot/no loop knot discussion.

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38 minutes ago, Old Scaley said:

Bahahaha. I'm with you there @Do$tylz. That stuff is so dry, unlike a good fishing forum "discussion" about the best knot to tie braid to mono. We have to keep fluorocarbon leaders for that reason alone. Next up, the loop knot/no loop knot discussion.

throw in some shimano vs daiwa just to spice it up a bit too :D

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On 19/02/2017 at 5:04 PM, Kendaric said:

'But I find when the fish are a bit finicky the leader comes in handy'

Absolutely, horses for courses, but the post didn't indicate that type of fishing.

Not sure at all that Dino indicated a "type of fishing".  His comment could be applied to any type of fishing where getting a bite is  harder on a given day/time/occasion. 

'Fluro leaders are used for two key reasons:

  1. Harder for fish to see
  2. Abrasion resistance.

It is well documented that braid is not as abrasion resistant. It also offers no stretch, which can actually cause you to lose fish.'

Fluro line advantage is mostly marketing hype,

Oh really? Care to share the evidence on that? I'd be open to reviewing some evidence that contradicts my personal experience.

though it may have some benefit in clear shallow water bream fishing - but I have not found it such, straight standard mono to the lure for that one.  Even one of the fishing magazine editors said similar.  We tried that one between two of us ( a mate and myself), on a school of bream in knee deep water in Wathumba creek, and it made no difference.

The length of 1 or 2 metres of mono leader stretch is so negligible, it makes no difference really - but yes, I know Barra fisherman that have gone back to full mono as they loose less fish that way due to stretch factor, and it makes the outfit more forgiving.  Try going back to a fibreglass/carbon composite as this will often solve the problem.  I wont use a full carbon rod anymore.

Personal preference, depending upon what you use them for. The trick is to find what works for you.  

'I would suggest looking at alternative slim connections like the FG Knot.'

A great knot for sure, but it too will suffer. 

All knots will suffer. It's inherent. It doesn't mean you're not better off though.

'If you are in the trees a leader is essential braid does not hack it in among snags.'

I have found otherwise.   Yes, like a mono leader, sometimes you have to replace the frayed bit of line, but I've had fish pull me into the snags longer than the average mono leader. 

Then you have been exceptionally lucky!

I'm not sure you have any data to back up even one of your claims, but honestly, I'd be happy to hear it if you do. 

 

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Have been told (anecdote, take with a grain of salt) a lot of the American Bass tournament anglers have moved to tie braid straight to lure.

I like to tie FG knots. They are really clever and im always amazed they don't just slip off. They haven't yet but probably will soon enough haha.

I also like to have the ability to change the feel/size of leader. It makes me able to use one reel for lots of different uses making my few outfits more adaptable (Yep I know that is a barrier for me to buy more gear and should be disregarded haha)

When braid hits the rocks off Straddie it seems to "Velcro" onto them. Mono seems to slip over the little bits of rock/barnacles better where braid seems to grab everything. I would imagine that it would do the same in the sticks?

Good discussion thanks everyone for the tips. 

 

 

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Guest Kendaric

Not sure at all that Dino indicated a "type of fishing".  His comment could be applied to any type of fishing where getting a bite is  harder on a given day/time/occasion. 

Yes, I got that it was an appropriate generalisation.

Oh really? Care to share the evidence on that? I'd be open to reviewing some evidence that contradicts my personal experience.

I used the word 'mostly', but that is not to say that it does not have its place. 

My evidence would only be the same as yours - experience based.  I have used fluorocarbons, but have gone away from it because I have not found it beneficial in the scenarios that I fish.  I also resented paying the exorbitant price for something that costs very little more to actually produce (which is part of the marketing hype).  Certainly if I was fishing bruiser bream in the oyster racks, Id probably be using it, but there are no oyster racks here (pity).

Some years ago a friend and I were fishing a windy mangrove creek offshoot at watumba for bream.  The water was crystal clear and knee deep.  I was using fluoro and my friend was using straight mono.  We both caught half a dozen bream each, and the bream didn't seem to show a preference for taking my lure over his.   But you could argue that perhaps his technique was better, or the fish were particularly switched on.  

Confidence certainly helps with fishing success, so it would only be natural that if fluoros give you greater confidence, you could well see better results.

Personal preference, depending upon what you use them for. The trick is to find what works for you. 

All knots will suffer. It's inherent. It doesn't mean you're not better off though.

Then you have been exceptionally lucky!

I'm not saying that running braid straight to your lure is the be all and end all.  It took me a long time to get my head around it, but thought I would give it a go, as I had a lot of respect for this blokes fishing, and some of his reasoning was sound.   The more knots in your terminal tackle, the more potential weak links, but I'm not indicating that there shouldn't be any.  You need what you need.

I have been lucky yes, and have found braid to be incredibly resilient in places that could have busted off mono (for what ever reason [maybe the knot]) but certainly braid does not like oysters, and like one commented, to tends to stick to it.  Much would depend on how long your mono leader was too.

I only run braid on my baitcasters, and mono on pretty much everything else.  I still use leaders.  I was just offering an often overlooked alternative that has born out to be appropriate within the scenarios of how my friend and I fish. People tend to get very fixated on what is seen to be the only way to do something.

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I'm all for trying something new. When I said I'd be open to hearing evidence contradicting my personal experience I was being sincere.

My experience is simply that, and limited to MY experience. I'd be an idiot not to realise that others experience will differ and may well teach me something. :-)

That said, mine is a bit of an OCD personality in that when I become interested in something, I really research it. I spent hours reading over research being done to determine the best knot to tie braid to fluro before adopting a different one - simply because I found I could tie it with my eyes shut. The small difference in resultant strength was a trade off I could live with when it made tying it so much easier.

I agree that it's easy to adopt a "That's the way I've always done it" mindset.

Bring on the posts where you offer a different perspective and get people talking. :-)

 

 

 

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Would you tie braid straight to a $30 xrap out trolling for pelagics? I certainly wouldn't.

 

I think in murky water with no snags about and the fish on the chew... I'd suggest using reasonable sized hard bodies sure, braid straight through could work, I'd suggest with a side-by-side comparison a more stealthy approach would still have the edge.

 

In clear water flicking a plastic for anything... I have tried it when I ran out of fluro leader one day, went from a fish a cast to not getting a touch. I would also not want to try it spinning metals off the rocks, fluro or tough mono leader is an absolute must for the extra abrasion resistance.

 

and @Do$tylz... You should see how good the stuff shindiawa makes is... ;) argument solved. :P 

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  • 10 months later...

I like braid straight through for barra on bibbed hardbodys - the lure 'works' harder (wobbles more sharply) when there's no stretch in the line. Noticed with leader it cushions the action of the lure a bit, whereas braid straight through, the lure wobbles much more strongly - night fishing for barra under lights they seem to home in on a strongly vibrating lure more. The same theory has worked for me with trolling for wahoo  - except there seems to need some cushioning (via mono leader) or get a lot of unexplained bustups, so in the past ive just kept the leader to two metres max. Troll two identical lures, one on braid and one on mono, and how much harder the lure works on braid is really obvious - also seem to get about 10 strikes on the braid to every one strike on the mono.    

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Guest Kendaric
On 2/21/2017 at 8:17 AM, Drop Bear said:

Have been told (anecdote, take with a grain of salt) a lot of the American Bass tournament anglers have moved to tie braid straight to lure.

I am across this link which tends to support what you had been told:

http://www.in-fisherman.com/midwest-finesse/finesse-news-networks-braided-line-and-leader-debate/

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