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Fishing line, Knot breaking strain tests


Paulus

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Hi Guys, I have this on a few sites, thought you may be interested.

This all started with me needing to know what, Was and Wasn't a GOOD LINE.

A little about the Tests, in part of my business, we run a testing laboratory, so I understand testing procedures. I do this as a hobby at home, so I hope it all helps. Results to date have been more than interesting.

I will update the list as I receive new Lines / knots to test.

As the list is updated I will put up a post on this site.

You will have to visit to see the updates.
/>http://www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm

Line Test results, displayed as the average of 3 tests, marked as (A). And the Best result marked (B.

Line is tested in Kg then results Calculated using, x 2.2 to get Lbs.

Braid diameter will be measured, flat (as most are), then wound up (twisted) measured again, the 2 results added and divided by two, to give an average (A) size in overall thickness, you could call it bulkiness, the amount taken up on your reels.

(A= Average, (B= Best, D= Diameter. Kt= Knot strength,,, what knot?

I am always looking for line to test, so mail me 3 mts of your line in an envelope, no spool, I will test no charge. Knot Tests send 1 metre of line with the knot in the centre, the line (at least the lesserline) should also be tested for the knot result to be meaningful.

Info required Brand name & Product type, Colour, Stated Lb / Kg, Diameter, if a Knot then type, and your email address to send the results to.

MAIL TO Line Test. 13 Alhambra ave, Cardiff, 2285 NSW.

I Never make the comment, that a fish was caught on a particular line strength, unless it's been pretested.

Visit to see the results
/>http://www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm

Hope it Helps, If you have any questions fire away.

Paulus

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Hi Paulus,

Great to see someone going to the trouble of taking a more scientific approach.

I am very interested in providing some line samples and the results. Had a quick flick through your webpage and found some of the results very interesting.

If I may add some constructive criticism, I found the current layout a bit difficult read. Will you be compiling an excel spreadsheet or something similar, even a plain black on white table would be great.

Also am very interested in what apparatus you are using for testing. Probably outside the scope of your experiment but would great to see breaking strain of various lines and knots under slowly applied constant pressure and sudden shock loads. One would assume that mono would perform better than braid, but it would be interesting to see the results of say fireline vs. non fused braid or fluro vs. regular mono.

Cheers,

Dom

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Thanks mate

I am flat out running that site, and a spread sheet, Mmmm don't know but will consider to look at it.

The tests are an average of three tests, with the average and best result listed, that best is under ideal conditions, which of coarse you seldom get, the biggest thing is the mechanics of a knot, that is what will let you down every time.

The line tests are easy, but time consuming, and braid is a little more difficult to test, shock value in a line does not come into play, in general fishing. I know of no one who fishes with braid without a shocker. If your one of the few you need to change as you will pull hooks and loose fish on the strike, especially the head shakers.

Hope to see you guys send in some to test.

I have animated some knots that have been changed these give great breaking strain results. so have a look at what slips and what you should and should not be using.

Paulus

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I use a shockleader several meters long in all of my setups except offshore trolling which I run straight mono. I think that when trolling lures for fast hard hitting fishing fish the ability to withstand a sudden shock will still play a part regardless. Found this article very interesting. It raises some very good points:


/>http://www.westernangler.com.au/default.asp?action=article&ID=87

I usually attach via bimini twist to albright and have found it very reliable. Tried to use bristol/noname knot to bimini on lure casting outfits for improved castability (in my experience albrights aren't that smooth passing through the guides) but found knot reliability a bit hit and miss. (Probably my knot tieing technique.)

It was interesting to note that on your big game setups you use braid with a relatively short (38m) mono topshot. Is there any reason why you don't run straight mono? Is it a line capacity issue? It just seems like another point where something could go wrong.

Also interesting that you use a plait to make a double in the braid as opposed to a bimini twist. Any reason for doing this? (I only use plaits in mono).

Once again with your bottom fishing setup how come you go with uni to double as opposed to albright to bimini twist? My understanding was that this is the most relaible connection. Have you found otherwise?

Sorry about all the questions.

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Where to start

The reason that I only use 38mts of mono is that you dont need more than that to take the shock, I started with 50 mts and found fighting the fish a lot more fun as you can feel what the fish is doing. Also the Mono line has about a 22% stretch factor.

Fishing big game or deep you loose all feeling using mono, in 80 mts of water with 15kg mono line you have no feel, with 5 oz of lead for instance you can lift the rod 2 mts up and have not yet picked up the sinker.

I do not need to do the Plait in the braid, (it can just be doubled over and the ends trimmed, as the improved double blood and the improved albright are strong knots, I have done a lot of testing and continue to do so in this area. Keep in mind that Double hangman uni is not as good as i would like it to be, so now do not recomend it, will mod my page. Have a look at the knot animations that i have done.

The modified double blood and the albright i use on my lighter setups (23lb braid to 14 lb leader) and found it goes to 95% leader strength, what more would you want.

Its nice to know where your line will break, should it have to, and not loose the leader.

Paulus

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Hey guys

I have updated the listing 15,03, 2009 with some awful tough line.

Braid, Berkley Whiplash 100lb, Tufline 100lb and 130lb

I have set out the knots section and included some additional knots, so it's a little easier to follow.

I use a surgeons end loop on my shocker, I tie ( Note tie) the the loop to my plastics when lure fishing for Flathead, as they are toothy critters. Any way this is a simple knot in mono, but does not do well with braid, may visit that one again.

Paulus

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As can be seen that i play around with a few knots, just to see how well they perform and it gives me somthing to test.

When i was in a tackle shop the other day, I mentioned that i was using a doubled albright knot on my whiplash pro braid and 14 lb leader, I was told, watch the knot as the impacting of the knot on jambed lures, will weaken the leader and it will break on the next cast.

Well I will be,,,,, and it does, so you need to retie about every hr or so. Lost 2 lures.

So I now use a double Blood, as its as strong, but will watch the situation.

Paulus

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I used to do a double blood all the time against some peoples suggestions. It never failed me though. I know use a uni to uni though purely as it has not failed me either and takes less time to tie. Its interesting to read this research though.

The only times I have issues with these knots is if im fishing a leader like 50-60lb on for example 20lb braid. I would not often do this except maybe for something hard hitting (jacks, cod) in very snaggy terrain. The difference in thickness I think increases potential of fail. I also need a rod with a larger final guide as the knot can get caught or slowed up when casting depending on leader length.

Angus

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Hey all

I did notice some hard hitting of the knot going through the guides at times, although I did have a good look at the knot at the time, and thought it looked ok, but it must have been doing some damage, as I did throw two lures during the morning, the double blood, a little more work I think, managable though, and as strong, does not catch the runners as the albright can do (that's with that leader tail heading out through the guides)even with all ends cut short. Now i was using the Double Uni and found it broke a t about 10% less than the Albright and the Double blood.

The Big Game situation is a little different as you are not casting and knots are not running backwards and forward. comes in easy and that is important.

I do have a lot of work in front of me as,,, I have an incredible amount of line to test.

A few days testing I think. I will get it up as time is available.

The Rapala range blue and pale blue, then Avanti lime green, Diawa Sensor orange, Iron Braid, Sunline Pale blue and Saltwater Jigger 8, Then some big Korean Heavy Trace. looks very good, like about 300 lb, fire up the big gun here.

Knots, well some more info.

Thank's guys

Paulus

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Paulus wrote:

As can be seen that i play around with a few knots, just to see how well they perform and it gives me somthing to test.

When i was in a tackle shop the other day, I mentioned that i was using a doubled albright knot on my whiplash pro braid and 14 lb leader, I was told, watch the knot as the impacting of the knot on jambed lures, will weaken the leader and it will break on the next cast.

Well I will be,,,,, and it does, so you need to retie about every hr or so. Lost 2 lures.

So I now use a double Blood, as its as strong, but will watch the situation.

Paulus

Hi Paulus,

This made me sit up and pay attention. I usually tie a 20 twist bimini in the braid then attach the doubled braid to the leader with an albright. Not good you say? Where does the leader fail, at the bend?

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Surprisingly no, it fails where the leader comes out of the knot, it's like the braid crushes the leader and reduces the diameter before failure.

All the tests I carried out with this knot, showed the failure at the same spot.

Keep in mind that it has to fail some where, when it's at and going past its limit.

I allways double the braid (not a tied loop) when I make the albright, this is to help protect the leader material from being cut by the braid.

Paulus

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g'day mate, question for you.

i am not a believer in having a long leader when using braid, 1.2 mtrs max for me with anything i fish for, i know it's for shock factor, i believe i want to feel what is going on exactly with my line!. and to much mono defeats the purpose of using braid.eg. no feel.

i also don't have to contend with knots running through the guides, i simply will not use as much drag, and let the reel work in my favor,as with the rod, so in reality the rod n reel catches fish, not the angler. all the angler does is put the lure, bait, whatever in the vicinity of where he thinks the fish might be. so my question is, any benefit in having a long leader? thats the short version. i will be able to read between the lines of your answer.

rob

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Hi

I love to chase big flathead and the big girls are real head shakers, also very good at abrading leaders.

I use a 23 lb whiplash pro braid and storm thunder line 14 lb as a leader (low cost out of the bin), it is a mid range line as far as stretch goes. Generally its about 3.3 mts long or 2 rod lengths, at the end of this i have a surgeons end loop, tied with a clinch knot to the lure ( this way i can undo and change lures easily).

Fishing over oyster encrusted rocks is difficult and you do get hungup on them, I use a 4 grm head with Softies and 2 trebles as a lure, so do get hungup.

When i need to break off, its the surgeons end loop that fails, or if a flathead has chaffed the line, i need to redo that section with a new loop, it takes up about 250mm of the leader each time, so I can do this a few times without having to replace the leader.

With flathead it is simple to pull the hooks, with the head shakes, and less drag will help, but a longer softer leader i found helps more.

Paulus

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Apart from certain brands which have features that really get my goat (Fireline barb wire anyone) my main concerns with braid are the things that annoy me, rather than breaking strain. Like the amount of water they take on then squirt over you in the middle of winter! Whether they fray or "fuzz up", whether they have an out layer which wears through. whether they are nice and limp from new.

Probably a pile of other things which annoy that I cant remember as well!

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Feral wrote:

Apart from certain brands which have features that really get my goat (Fireline barb wire anyone) my main concerns with braid are the things that annoy me, rather than breaking strain. Like the amount of water they take on then squirt over you in the middle of winter! Whether they fray or "fuzz up", whether they have an out layer which wears through. whether they are nice and limp from new.

Probably a pile of other things which annoy that I cant remember as well!

Aaahhhh.....I remember a simpler time when you put soft mono on your spinner and hard mono on your alvey..........oh what a web we've woven.....

Sorry for wandering off the thread......

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You are right about the water coming up.

We use braid on electrics to fish deep, and when the jackets are about it can be a costly excersize. So we tried a cheaper open weave braid, what a disaster, water coming up like a fountain and dripping out of your reel. The better brands do not have this problem to that degree.

Paulus

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Hey Guys

Upated the list again.

Iron Braid 6 lb, 10 lb, 16 lb, Sunline castaway 10 lb, 16 lb, Sunline saltwater jigger 8 XX lb.

More to come shortly.

Thanks for all the info and line Guys, keep it coming.

Its good to see that some of you are starting to look at the list, before the purchase of line.

Thanks for all the contact, emails and Pm's

Thank you Results at

www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm

Paulus

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey Guys

Just updated the line testing section, with something new.

You now have for all the mono and flurocarbon lines. A new type of line test has been listed, a hardness factor, the number in the first box is a hardness number, you can now compare lines of similar diameter against each other. I have done this from retained samples on hand, not all of them done though, I will rely on you guys to fill in some of the gaps.

As well.

Updated 14,04, 2009 Braid, Sunline castaway 10 & 16 lb

Mono, Javis walker 25 lb, Penn 40 and 50 lb, Mustad thor 14 lb and Mustad UL 20 lb

Leader Material, Sunline siglon low vis 38 lb, Penn 10X Super Tough leader 20 lb

Paulus

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Hey Guys

I have done a few additional lines.

Black Magic Supple trace line. Black Magic leader. Black MagicTough trace.

lots of names seems this line has a few differing types, and the results vary, so keep an eye out which one you

are using.

More Knot results listed.

We spent a day playing with a series of knots, on the the line test machine.

The outcome ///////

If you are putting a double (loop) in braid, test a knot before you tie it to the leader. Pick up a weight with it.

Put a line clip on a weighted bag, put the loop in the clip, wrap the other end of the line around a piece of 90 x 35 mm pine timber a few times, and try to lift the weight up by your shoulder. You may find the knot may slip a little, if it does, it needs to lock, this should be done before the line is tied to the leader, or it will break, at the leader join prematurely, or if its an unsuitable double knot it may fail.

We tried the 12 turn Bimini Twist and found the Sufix braid slipped, so went to a 20 turn, we still had some minor slippage, the following locking knot needs more work.

If this is tied to the leader the slight slippage puts additional strain on one leg of the loop causing the leader knot to be cut and or break prematurely.

I tried the same Bimini Twist knot on Whiplash pro and got 21.36 lb on a 23.1 lb braid, I must have made 30 tests, and results ranged from 7.5 lb to 21.36 lb, 20 to 35 turns, great if they grip and far to many did'nt.

At this stage this knot is a hit and miss item.

Keep in mind, to test each knot individually, before testing a multi knot complete line system.

I now have an electric Braider / plaiter and will try that, for the braid.

Joining the braid loop to the leader, the improved double blood was the best, in all situations, but may well not work on heavy/hard lines, as the mono/FC will not form around the braid. We struggled with 30lb Mustad thor (test 41 lb) but it worked.

A thin 6 to 20 lb / small diam braid does not need a double, if tied to a soft .300 mm / 15 lb or less mono leader, the braid folded and an improved double blood knot, will give all the strength you need. If you go to a 20 or 30 lb leader you will need a double in the braid (2 legs) to spread the load over the leader.

Note: I know that a lot use fluorcarbon leaders, todate with all the testing I have done, have found that softer leaders perform better at the braid to leader knot, soft leader material holds and suports the braid better, and does not slip. With hard leaders the braid also cuts its self.

I had some braid and leader dropped off today for testing, leader hardness was 92 and the knot broke at 4.82 lb, I re-tied the knot with a Improved double blood and re-tested it went to 6.07 lb.

Then I changed the leader to a similar sized one, with a hardness of 83.7 re-tied the improved double blood and tested got 8.32 lb.

Thanks with the help Scott

Not completed yet.

Paulus

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Hey Guys i have updated the list on 23,04, 2009 with the following.

Braid, Sunline Super PE 6 lb, Berkley FireLine 15 & 20 lb, Berkley Spiderwire red 8 & 10 lb, Power Strike 7 lb, Blue Water Fishing 30 lb, Iron Braid 30 & 50 lb, PE Fibre Braided line 30 lb.

Mono type, Javis walker 25 lb, Penn 40 and 50 lb, Mustad thor 8 lb, Mustad Pro Select 12 lb, Berkley Vanish Fluoro 10 lb, Iron Flex 15 lb,

Leader Material, Jinkai Leader 40, Black Magic Supple trace, Black Magic line and Black Magic Leader, lots of names with differing results.

Extra hardness numbers

More knots, Bimini Twist

Still have some more to do.

Paulus

Hope it helps

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Hey Guys

I always thought that if you got a particular brand line, colour would not matter as far as the breaking strain goes, but I have been thinking wrong.

Some very surprising results in the lower breaking strains.

Just goes to show, I tested some 7 lb line, small diam for the breaking strain, thought I might go the 4 lb, found it twice as thick and broke even higher than the 7 lb, wrong line on the spool. Finally got some 4 lb, nice and thin. You can never be quite sure.

Updated 27,04,2009 with

Braid, Sunline Super PE 6, 8, 10, 12, 15, 20 lb white and green, Berkley FireLine 15, 20 lb, Berkley Spiderwire red 8, 10 lb, Berkley FireLine Crystal 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 15, 20 lb, Berkley Whiplash Pro 4 lb, Power Strike 4, 7, 14? lb, Blue Water Fishing 30 lb, Iron Braid 30, 50 lb, PE Fibre Braided line 30 lb.

Mono type, Javis walker 25 lb, Penn 40 and 50 lb, Mustad thor 8 lb. Mustad Pro Select 12 lb,Berkley Vanish Fluoro 10 lb, Iron Flex 15 lb,

Leader Material, Jinkai Leader 40, Black Magic Supple trace, Black Magic line and Black Magic Leader, lots of names with differing results.

Extra hardness numbers

More knots, Bimini Twist, and more to do.

Got more line in will do as time is available.

Thanks guys.


/>http://www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey Guys.

With the wind settling I have been doing a little fishing and have had little time, but its still happening, with more to come.

Updated 07,05, 2009. PLS Note;- for those that want to use the list commercially PLS contact me, before you do, thanks.

Braid, changed Woodstock Power Strike was shown as Power Strike, Bionic Braid pink 12lb, Platypus Sinking Braid 12lb, Platypus Super Braid 30 lb, Fins Original - Prt 50lb, Berkley FireLine Tracer 15 lb.

To come, Berkley FireLine Tracer 30 & 50 lb. also Pex Braid.

Note;- Sunline green colour verses white, with 6 lb white to come.

Mono type, previously done,,, Javis walker 25 lb, Penn 40 and 50 lb, Mustad thor 8 lb. Mustad Pro Select 12 lb, Berkley Vanish Fluoro 10 lb, Iron Flex 15 lb,

Thanks for sending the line in guys, We now have importers getting tests done and making use of this.

Paulus

see the results
/>http://www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm

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  • 2 weeks later...

 Hey Guys

I have been doing some fishing in the local lake and getting some very good results.

So I guess the tests have been on the back burner a little. But I have caught up, as can be seen

Updated 20,05, 2009.

Braid, Berkley FireLine Tracer 15, 30 & 50 lb. Berkley FireLine Crystal 8 lb, Sunline Cast away PE 30 lb, also Pex Braid 50 & 60 lb.

Note;- Sunline green colour verses white, is interesting, the 6 lb white i am looking for.

Mono type,

Leader Material, Ande Leader 20lb

More knots, Bimini twist 70 turns, and a great albright, improved double blood in the same material.

I got a Bimini twist 70 turns combined with a very nicely made Albright to the leader, then using the same material I made an improved double blood knot, with almost the same end result. Knots don't you hate them.

You can improve your braid knots, try running the line between your thumb nail and fore finger a few times to flatten it out, and to remove line twists, as its the twists that do the cutting.

Should you have any questions pls ask

Paulus

see the results

www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm

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  • 1 month later...

Hey Guys,

I got some more line you sent in and got it tested.

I have been up north, little fishing though.

Updated 25,06, 2009.

Braid, Amnesia yellow 30lb, Daiwa Team TD orange 4 lb and 6 lb, Woodstock Power Strike  green 4 lb. Hi- Seas Grand Slam bright red 30 lb, Nitlon Giga 20 lb, Mustad Dynamite Ultra braid green 19 lb. Lines ain't lines.

Note;- Sunline green colour verses white, with 6 lb white,,, still to come.

Mono type, Berkley Trilene XL 6 lb & 9 lb, Yo-Zuri Hybrid 25 lb.

Leader Material, Ande Leader 20lb, Sunline Saltwater Special FC rock 50 lb.

More knots, Bimini twist 70 turns, Bimini twist 50 turns, and a great albright. Ted Donelans Knot fails with the Bimini twist 50. Thanks for your time Scott.

Paulus

Results at.
/>http://www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm

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  • 1 month later...

Hey guys

It's been a while, I have been catching a lot of fish, but the testing has been going on.

I have put in a new line test machine, to make it a little easier.

A lot of new lines have been tested, some obscure braids, very nice and silky also some leaders.

I have also developed a new Bimini twist tool, makes great twists.

Some of the lines tested are.

Updated the list today 08,08, 2009.

Braid, Amnesia braid yellow 30lb, Daiwa Team TD orange 4 lb and 6 lb, Woodstock Power Strike green 4 lb, yellow 10 lb, 15 lb, 50 lb, Hi- Seas Grand Slam bright red 30 lb, Nitlon Giga 20 lb, Mustad Dynamite Ultra braid green 19 lb. Power Pro moss green 20, 30, 50 lb, Berkley FireLine pink 4 lb, Sufix Performance new 6ply 6 lb yellow, Pelagic Spectra 10 lb, YGK Galis Ultra Jig-man X8 blue 33 lb, Calcutta Ultra green 10 & 15 lb, Fins Wind tamer yellow 4 lb, Sufix Performance orange 6 lb.

Lines ain't lines sol, sure ain't.

Hate to say it but look out for the last orange around rocks n snags.

Note;- Sunline green colour verses white, with 6 lb white,,, still to come,,, looking for it.

Mono type, Berkley Trilene XL 6 lb & 9 lb, Yo-Zuri Hybrid 25 lb

Leader Material, Ande Leader 20lb, Sunline Saltwater Special FC rock 50 lb

More knots, Bimini twist 70 turns, Bimini twist 50 turns, and a great albright. Ted Donelans Knot fails with the Bimini twist 50.

Thanks for your time Scott.

Improved allbright in heavy leaders to braid lines.

Keep in mind that if you want a line tested send it in,,, that's what makes the list work.

Please note, that keeping up with all this, as well as the testing is a job in it's self.

Paulus

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just wondering why you are tying 12 and 20 turn biminis in braid, ive recently been tying 40 and 50 turn biminis and have seen many others also go up to 40-50 turn biminis?

if i try a 20 turn bimini in sunline super PE i can guarantee it slips, 40-50 turn bimini to albright i can pull stumps out :D

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Hi

I too have seen a few posts on 12 and 20 turn Biminis, and yes we tried them, but to show that they fail on a good braid.

Keep in mind the smoother and slippery the braid is the more turns it needs to hold, I can point you to a few braids that will work with 12 turns, mind you i don't use them.

I also proved that the turns ratio in a bimini has nothing to do with the breaking strain of the twist, just the holding power of the legs against slippage, once they slip they cut the leader.

Keep in mind that each knot in a system must be tested on it's own, not as a completed system, get the first one right, then move onto the next.

I have been playing with a Bimini twist tool, that looks promising, makes it all easy.

Paulus

Have a look.

www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm

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  • 2 months later...

Hi Guys

I have been doing a few more breaking strain tests on braids and a Mono Leader with interesting results.

Latest Tests on,

Braid, Woodstock Power Strike yellow 30 lb and 50 lb, Blue steel 6 lb. Penn Pro power.8 lb, Shakespeare ugly 10 lb. Spiderwire Stealth 65 lb, Tuf line XP yellow 50 lb, Grifton Exoset 30lb and 50 lb, Varivas Ivani big one jigging braid 85 lb, Daiwa Saltiga Sensor 8 hyper PE 75 lb, Dolphin 168 PE 40lb

Mono type, Momoi Hi-catch 40 lb and 50 lb.

Leader Material, Schneider Klear 55 lb

I have added a line review page, this may help when you need to get that next line.

I also made a video on using a Bimini Twist as a knot to join a heavy braid as a leader to a light braid main line, the breaking strain retained is 100% of the lighter braids strength. I am going to try a heavy braid as a leader for my future fishing.


/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j7X9-4foKg Thats the knot in the above post

When I was doing some strain tests on a leader, I accidentally put a small crease in the line, it was not a cut (I bent the line over a sharp 90 deg edge), the line got a small white spot in it, could not feel it, the sort of thing you may see in a knot / overlap or on a bend, the spot wound up in the center of the test area, I thought I wonder what happens here, well it failed at 51% of the lines true breaking strain. This one had me thinking I may have to do a little more work in this area.

For the Latest Visit. http://www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm

Paulus

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