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vannamei prawns as bait


coffey

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I like to take a selection of baits when fishing the Bay, usually salted pillies, salted whitebait and either squid or prawns from the bait shop. Recently I discovered vannamei prawns at the supermarket, cooked and frozen, but a great bait size for the Bay and the quantity per dollar was very attractive. Thought I would give them a go.

They fish consistently well, often out performing my favoured salted pillies and whitebait. But now I learn that the vannamei pranw is an imported, farmed species.

Am I being an environmental villian, using these critters as bait?

I would appreciate your advice.

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Interesting question actually. I would assume that the prawns being available for human consumption from the likes of Wollies and so-on, that they would be okay to use as bait. They are cooked yeah? For their price (often about $12 or less per kg), they compare well to packaged bait. I did in fact once (and only once), grab a handful just for bait, only costing me a couple of bucks, and it went down really well with the fish...better than any frozen baits I got at the baitshops.

So I guess this will be opening up a can of worms....so to speak. Every one...well many at least, want to support the local guy close to where the action is, but is there a risk to the environment by using these as bait?

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I usually buy about 300gs of local green prawns from coles or woollies when they are on special which only sets me back 3 or 4 bucks. I've kept away from the vannamei prawns more because of the unknown factor... like possibly spreading disease or other unwanted parasites. I could be highly paranoid but I am a bit sus about imported seafood at the best of times.

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the bay I assume you mean Moreton and the river mouth

Get a cast net the river has quite a few prawns at the moment and the moon should still

be good.

check hook em throught the tail and set em out live, anything will take these buggers, great bait.

try the shallows (2 foot) at turn of tide (low to high)

cheers

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there was a great piece on this in the Q weekend section of the courier mail a few months back.....imported prawns and the chemicals etc.

however, the amount of chemicals you would introduce in 100 sessions fishing with these things would be negligible. i'd be hesitant about eating them but people do so you can only assume they're not going to kill you short term.....

there's plenty of local options regardless. brekkie creek always does me for netting prawns.....15 minutes and you'll have plenty for a session, plus herring and boney bream.

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Definitely not worth the risk of releasing any chances of overseas bacteria viruses or diseases into our waterways fresh or salt. Just because they are cooked does not mean they are free from contaminants.

There is also no guarantee that the guys that cook the prawns do not handle uncooked prawns without sterilizing thier hands before touching the cooked prawns. ( would doubt they do this at all).

The risk is a reality, it is a very real possibility of transferring any such disease into our environment via use as bait or discarding the shells and heads into our waterways.

I for one would like to see a public hanging or execution of any persons caught releasing an exotic pest or disease into this country.

Jack.

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mangajack wrote:

Definitely not worth the risk of releasing any chances of overseas bacteria viruses or diseases into our waterways fresh or salt. Just because they are cooked does not mean they are free from contaminants.

I believe they undergo gamma irradiation once they hit customs for imported food/goods. So they're clean to use, but there are heaps better options for bait than these guys.

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thanks to everyone for your response.

On balance, I won't be using them again. Instead, if I can't catch my own livies (got to learn to throw a cast net first), I'll treat myself to 500g of fresh (Moreton)Bay prawns at the fishmongers.

Chris,

I do exactly that. I buy pillies and whitebait frozen, thaw them, pat 'em dry with paper towel and layer them in thin beds of course-grained cooking salt, a bit like making a lasagne really. I wrap the lot in newspaper and leave at room temperature for a period to toughen them up. They stay on the hook much better and the fish, when they are around, eat them like lollies. The trick is putting them in the freezer at the right time to stop the drying process. Rule of thumb, I like 12 hours for whitebait and 24 hours for pillies, but it depends on and varies with their size; tis a sliding scale.

I aim for just enough time at room temperature that the bait remains full bodied. Over do it and your bait will wither to the point that it resembles shoe leather; not a good look.

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At the end of the day, shops can label their perishables with anything they like, of course being a dedicated consumer to buy local produce, I believe some big and small operators alike will label their goods accordingly. They do this for the sale and when it comes to making money, everyone is greedy. Look at the recent saga on buying bananas from o/seas. Its not as though we have a banana shortage in QLD at present but it boils down to how much margin someone like Coles or even your neighbourhood operator can make by buying o/seas produce and flogging it below the cost of local produce. We can only blame the retailers for being money hungry bas*****, co-ops not doing enough to protect their industries and lobbying against the influx of certain inferior goods from o/seas. That being said a country's economy thrives on imports and exports and we can never rule out on importing. But we can maintain a level of quality/standard that we want to have and maintain. At the end of the day, there are bigger driving forces out there (some we are not aware of and have no control over) as to why we have such goods like Vannamei prawns hitting our supermarket shelves.

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teckee7 wrote:

At the end of the day, shops can label their perishables with anything they like, of course being a dedicated consumer to buy local produce, I believe some big and small operators alike will label their goods accordingly. They do this for the sale and when it comes to making money, everyone is greedy. Look at the recent saga on buying bananas from o/seas. Its not as though we have a banana shortage in QLD at present but it boils down to how much margin someone like Coles or even your neighbourhood operator can make by buying o/seas produce and flogging it below the cost of local produce. We can only blame the retailers for being money hungry bas*****, co-ops not doing enough to protect their industries and lobbying against the influx of certain inferior goods from o/seas. That being said a country's economy thrives on imports and exports and we can never rule out on importing. But we can maintain a level of quality/standard that we want to have and maintain. At the end of the day, there are bigger driving forces out there (some we are not aware of and have no control over) as to why we have such goods like Vannamei prawns hitting our supermarket shelves.

The ever expanding green zones along our coast will certainly cause there to be a lot more seafood imported.

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Definitely not worth the risk of releasing any chances of overseas bacteria viruses or diseases into our waterways fresh or salt. Just because they are cooked does not mean they are free from contaminants.

There is also no guarantee that the guys that cook the prawns do not handle uncooked prawns without sterilizing thier hands before touching the cooked prawns. ( would doubt they do this at all).

The risk is a reality, it is a very real possibility of transferring any such disease into our environment via use as bait or discarding the shells and heads into our waterways.

I for one would like to see a public hanging or execution of any persons caught releasing an exotic pest or disease into this country.

geez....sensationalise much?? the risk would have to be as high as the risk of getting bitten by a bull shark in the bath.....and what would be 'any such disease' that you speak of anyway??

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thousandyards wrote:

geez....sensationalise much?? the risk would have to be as high as the risk of getting bitten by a bull shark in the bath.....and what would be 'any such disease' that you speak of anyway??

Much higher risk than you think

Have a read. Two sources from less than 1 minute of research

[ul]http://www.rockypointprawns.com/R&D2.htm[/ul]

http://www.daff.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/284148/Murphy.pdf

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shortie wrote:

i really cant see the harm in using them for bait. Obviously to get em into the country there is a quarantine screening process

I believe AQIS have a screening process based on representative sampling, but the percentage sampled is quite low. Suppliers are also required to conform to a certification standard and maintain auditable records. However, I recall a controversy a couple of years ago when a large quantity of farmed prawns made it into the country with an unacceptably high level of antebiotics in the flesh. Seems the antebiotics are added to the prawn feed to ward off disease in high intensity aquaculture.

The local trawlermen made a lot of noise about it.

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teckee7 wrote:

Here is a Q&A from AQIS..worth a read
/>http://www.daff.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/373188/Seafood.pdf

Thats an interesting report. It seems that the main focus of the testing is to determine risk to the consumer. The tests mentioned are for pesticides and pharmaceuticals, but no mention of biological testing. Perhaps there is little or no perceived threat to the local fishery.

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so we're concerned about diseased prawns coming in from overseas when the level of antibiotics (presumably used to kill diseases) is actually unacceptably high in some testing??

oh.......a few quotes from the 'one minute of research....

"GAV poses a major threat to the farmed prawn stocks in Australia."

"GAV affects Australian prawns while YHV occurs in Asian prawn stocks"

"GAV is now known to be present at low levels in healthy prawns without ill effect, but when the prawn is stressed by poor water conditions, overcrowding or other diseases, the virus multiplies and the infection becomes lethal. Although it affects farm production, the virus is not at all harmful to humans."

so it's present in low levels in healthy prawns without effect. it affects only australian prawns. it's a different virus to the one occuring in Asian prawns. if our aquaculture is so good over here - which i understand it to be - then surely we have nothing to be too concerned about as Australian operators are aware of the causes of the problem, the effects of it on their likelihood and have had a testing kit since 2001 - which is the actual point of the article you linked to. our prawn farming is quite different to the Asian set ups anyway which means we generally don't have the conditions necessary for this disease to reach an acute level in a prawn harvest.

as for the white spot syndrome virus, it's killed by cooking and given that this whole thread started out with a reference to cooked and frozen prawns, i don't really see the reason to jump on the alarms just yet. WSSV can be present at a low level in totally healthy prawns just like GAV. it's only when they're stressed that they develop acute symptoms and that stressing occurs in the kind of conditions you find in Asian high intensity prawn farms - totally different to what exists here which would mean (in the highly unlikely event of it actually being detected anywhere in australia) our farm stocks would probably survive an outbreak....and a completely different context to wild caught prawns which is what everyone's getting their knickers in a knot over.

nevermind the fact that for this disease to be introduced into an Australian aquaculture setup would most likely need to be a case of industrial sabotage......possible, but not likely.

the primary concern of AQIS's Q&A document seems to be that there are high levels of antibiotics in imported seafood. the article that ran a few months back in the courier mail also seemed to indicate that as being the main issue......the effect of high levels of veterinary products in these imported goods (used in order to prevent disease outbreaks by the overseas farmers in the first place)......

they may not be the safest to eat, but in terms of brisbane fishermen using cooked imported prawns for bait.....the chances of transmitting one of these diseases to Australian prawn stocks - farm or wild - remains as slim as the chance of me getting eaten by a bull shark in my bath.......

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hairyweasel wrote:

shortie wrote:
i really cant see the harm in using them for bait. Obviously to get em into the country there is a quarantine screening process

I believe AQIS have a screening process based on representative sampling, but the percentage sampled is quite low. Suppliers are also required to conform to a certification standard and maintain auditable records. However, I recall a controversy a couple of years ago when a large quantity of farmed prawns made it into the country with an unacceptably high level of antebiotics in the flesh. Seems the antebiotics are added to the prawn feed to ward off disease in high intensity aquaculture.

The local trawlermen made a lot of noise about it.

really only affects human consumption not out local prawn stocks.

The point was is it safe to use as bait.

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gaz........of course we don't!! we have incredibly authoritative sources such as google and wikipedia with which to support our arguments.

plus we have government agencies and departments who are almost superhumanly thorough, committed to their jobs, completely free of any political agenda or influence peddling and operate with absolute integrity in their research and presentation of the facts in these matters.

what cause could we possibly have for doubting the sources we read?? it's like reading something in the paper......of course it's true.

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UMM so you believe every thing you read then :laugh:

I work in the food industry where imported products are used

Fact all process workers in the food industry are required to wash hands /sterilise them and wear gloves and disposable clothing when handling products every time they leave their work area ;)

fact imported products are kept seperate from domestic ;)

Fact if yo go from raw and cooked product area's require change of hair /beard nets and clothes ;)

fact domestic raw imported products must be cooked for a certain length of time and at certain temps ;)

fact even the cartons they come in get cooked at 100 deg celcius for hours before being able to be disposed of ;)

fact all raw imported products are frozen did you know that over 90% of your bacon / ham is imported from denmark as we Australian's cant produce enough pigs to support our market demands we are a small plant and and produce over 400 ton of product a week :woohoo:

fact we get Auditted nearly every second week to ensure standards are met ;)

fact this is only the tip of the ice berg :huh:

what alot of you read is propagander by the seafood industry and government to stop imports but the truth is crap I'm no expert but have first hand knowledge :P

I too support Aussie made products but the chances of imported prawns infecting our prawn industry is crap unless it is raw even then it it comes frozen so the likely hood of desease is just crap :angry: I don't buy imported prawns for a feed as I like local freshly cooked prawns :woohoo:

I would love nothing more that to see more fresh bait not frozen spose to be Aussie prawns available Cabbage tree point has the best I've seen so far PLEASE let me know of other places

go to bcf bait fridge mate and look @ the label imported

most servo frozen bait is :angry: terry's squid imported just too name one :angry:

look at Baitonline the menu imported this imported that

my point is unlees you know the facts first hand don't post

no offence ment but I do dislike ppl giving the wrong advise

I use imported octapus as bait from the supermarket and it's great way better than servo squid :woohoo:

and kicks ass

if ppl are concerned get fresh bait and hope any outside factors like pollutants and desease's from local stock dont spread :blink:

sorry for the long post but being in the imported and local meat industry and knowing the facts compelled me too so

Gaz

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Gazza!!!Gee you fire up!!

Mate, I've worked in the food industry for most of my working life, both in manufacturing and technical. During the early '90s I dealt regularly with both AQIS and Customs chasing the release of imported food products, which gave me some insight into how things were done. A lot has changed since then, and I certainly wouldn't suggest that I'm and authority on it now.

While a lot of the facts you raised are quite true of the processed meat industry, not all of it is 100% true of all of the food industry.

A great deal of the seafood imported into Oz comes in raw and is sold to the consumer raw.

If anybody is under the impression that freezing renders seafood sterile, they're quite wrong. There are many organisms that can withstand indefinate periods frozen.

I think I recall signage at both NPD and Kurwongba forbidding the use of imported baits.

I can only assume this is to control the risk of introducing something that we will live to regret.

Many of the fishermen on this site will remember the pilly drought in the mid '90s when disease was detected in WA pilchard schools. The industry was shut down for a period of time to prevent frozen pillies introducing the disease to other areas.

I'm not suggesting that imported prawns are a threat to out fishery, but where there is imported bait, there is always the risk of imported disease.

Gazza, I'm not having a go at you mate and I admire your stand on Aussie products.

Cheers

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Many of the fishermen on this site will remember the pilly drought in the mid '90s when disease was detected in WA pilchard schools. The industry was shut down for a period of time to prevent frozen pillies introducing the disease to other areas.

I'm not suggesting that imported prawns are a threat to out fishery, but where there is imported bait, there is always the risk of imported disease.

Gazza, I'm not having a go at you mate and I admire your stand on Aussie products.

Cheers

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