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Conserving threadfin stocks


nadders

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its a major spawning aggregation and the majority of fish that come from it are big females currently in spawning, no need to go on a tangent from that fact

as for your question pumpychowdown there are still plenty of spots you can fish and get good fish too, even around the mouth, i've been fishing the mouth since spawning started and have only encountered 2 threadfin as bycatch, look for much tighter areas more structure etc away from the pipeline, ive been targetting snapper and cod mainly and been getting jewies as bycatch in these tighter areas away from pipeline.

obviously there will be bycatch of threadfin along the way, its naive to suggest i am assuming there wont be, but the simple fact remains that if we all avoid the largest known spawning aggregation it will do the threadfin favours for the future, no matter what argument or "what ifs" are applied to it

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Bommie, thats great its not the only one, it is however by far the most under pressure aggregation site in the river, its a nice problem to have accidently cathing meter plus fish, no matter what part of the river there caught in big females should be released, the one young nuckles caught was fishing shallow water before the breeding season and was released in great condition, he hasnt targetted thredys of any size for several weeks now.

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Bommie wrote:

no argument about the fact that the pipeline is a major spawning site, but its not the only one in the river

ok, in clearer terms, avoid targetting the pipeline and any other major spawning site you may stumble across. in the end, the point is the same, avoid fishin areas that are likely to provide breeding size fish

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mmm so avoid fishing from the mouth to up around the city for the five to six months they are spawning, even if I want to target jew & cod. agreed big females should be released, but maybe a bag limit of one over 70-80cm (for the ones that don't make it) & total of two, bag and size limits seem to make more sense.

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Mate, nadders isnt saying theres a 20km spawning area, the majority of the big females are in the 1km stretch along the oil pipeline at the river mouth, avoiding that 1km stretch to let those fish to there thing is a small price to pay for continued good fishing, most of the best cod snapper and jew areas are not in the area the threddys favour.

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Bit from DPI website . Out of date by a few years.

king threadfin salmon

This is a regulated fish. See Recreational fishing rules in Queensland - Tidal waters for the current regulations.

Description

The king salmon is a heavy-bodied fish, with a comparatively small head. They have tiny eyes located towards the tip of the soft snout. They have two dorsal fins each set on a distinct hump. King salmon grow to more than 185cm (30kg) and are sexually mature at just over 4 years of age (85-86cm). They are grey-blue along their backs becoming silvery below and have a very distinct lateral line. The pectoral fins are orange with five long, highly specialised filaments at the base of each fin. The filaments can be used to identify king salmon. These fish use their filaments to locate food items, including prawns, crabs and worms along the bottom.

Habitat/distribution

King salmon are coastal, marine fish and can be found in bottom or mid-waters in muddy bays, estuaries and rivers of tropical Australia. They are most common in very shallow waters and occasionally venture into freshwater. These fish prefer the lower reaches of tidal rivers and mangrove flats. King salmon range from Noosa in Queensland northward through Torres Strait, the Gulf of Carpentaria and the Northern Territory.

Further information

Department of Primary Industries. (2002). Fish Guide. Saltwater, Freshwater and Noxious Species. The Great Outdoors Publications, Brisbane.

Grant, E.M. (2002). Grant's Guide To Fishes. E.M. Grant Pty Limited, Brisbane.

Note: Some information in this publication may change from time to time (especially size and in-possession limits). You should contact your nearest Queensland Boating and Fisheries Patrol or the DPI&F Business Information Centre (13 25 23) for latest fisheries regulations and information.

This DPI Note is also published on the DPI&F's PrimeNotes CD-ROM.

Information contained in this publication is provided as general advice only. For application to specific circumstances, professional advice should be sought. The Department of Primary Industries and Fisheries Queensland has taken all reasonable steps to ensure the information in this publication is accurate at the time of publication. Readers should ensure that they make appropriate inquiries to determine whether new information is available on the particular subject matter.

File No: f00092

Last updated: 18 December 2003

and more.

Threadfin Salmon

threadfinsalmon

Blue salmon (blue threadfin) Eleutheronema tetradactylum.

Illustration © R. Swainston www.anima.net.au

Target species

Blue salmon (blue threadfin) Eleutheronema tetradactylum

King salmon (king threadfin) Polydactylus macrochir

Threadfin salmon are marine fish that prefer inshore coastal waters and tidal rivers, forming large schools during autumn and spring. There are two species of threadfin commonly fished on Queensland’s east coast – blue and king salmon. These species have different life histories and biology. They both have specialised filaments at the base of each pectoral fin, which are used to locate food such as prawns, crabs and worms along the floor of mangroves, muddy bays and river mouths.

Department of Primary Industries and Fisheries Fishnote on Blue threadfin salmon

Department of Primary Industries and Fisheries Fishnote on King threadfin salmon

Status & trend

Graph of Queensland East Coast commercial catch of Blue threadfin salmon

Graph of Queensland East Coast commercial catch of King threadfin salmon

Data from http://chrisweb.dpi.qld.gov.au 30 June 2004 with permission Department of Primary Industries and Fisheries.

Threadfin salmon on Queensland’s East Coast are mainly caught within the Great Barrier Reef World Heritage Area (GBRWHA). It is almost exclusively a net fishery, although recreational fishers may also catch threadfin using hook and line.

Within the GBRWHA blue threadfin account for about 60 per cent and king threadfin 40 per cent of threadfin salmon catch. South of the GBRWHA to the New South Wales border, king threadfin are caught more than blue, making up about two thirds of threadfin catch.

There is no information about recreational or Indigenous fishing of threadfin.

There has been no formal assessment of the commercial or recreational threadfin salmon fishery, but Queensland Department of Primary Industries and Fisheries (DPI&F) carried out a preliminary assessment in 2002. This assessment found that analysis of catch, effort and catch per unit effort indicated that stock of both threadfin species are not currently under threat.

If you wish to see the graphs you will have to have a look at the website yourself. In 2003 the total catch in Qld was 120 tonnes with only 20 tonnes being south of the GBRWHA.

I didnt bother with the blue threadies as they appear to be relatively rare in our waters.

Cheers

Ray.

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bommie i am not sure which part of this topic you aren't grasping, or accepting, or both

that the pipeline area is a major spawnig aggrgation site?

that they spawn from roughly september - feb?

that large breeders are fairly uncommon within the entire population and are of high importance to the species?

which part of the information in the thread are you struggling with. but again i'm not sure how it can be made any clearer. the information is out there now, if you wish to go to a major spawning aggregation where the majority of fish caught are of large breeding size during the spawning period then its your decision to do so. but until more is known about the BR population dont be surprised if one day the population falls as sharply as it rose a decade ago

and im not sure how many fish you have caught in autumn roed up, i've not heard of a fish roed up into may/april. but they are spawning currently, whether you accept they are or not its happening

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nadders I am not struggling with any of it if read my posts properly,

I agree the pipeline is one of the spawning sites,

I agree they start spawning in sept.

I don't agree they spawn till Feb. and not in autumn, look at photos taken in april/may,

I agree large breeders(over110cm) are fairly uncommon within the population and are important to the species,

I don't target them when they are spawning, in spring and autumn,

and they have been around in the river for more than a decade,

is that clear for you?

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the apparent tone of your posts thus far make it appear that you are trying to undermine wherever you can. perhaps you should re-read your posts and see if you can pick up on the same vibe. this thread is not about cheap victories over scarcely relevant points (such as "it is naive to think that the pipeline is the only spawning aggregation")

its about education on conserving threadfin stocks, so without confusing the issue for a first time reader i'm sure we can agree that the relevant information has been supplied

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Dinodadog wrote:

Nadders the part I find amusing is a couple of weeks ago you were doing what you are asking others not to do, there is a word for that

i've spelled out the point of this thread many times so i'll do it once more in very basic terms lol, if people want to continue turning it into an argument thats out of my hands.

also for the record my last targetted thready session was 9 weeks ago :)

sooo this thread in a nutshell:

*threadfin spawn from september to february

*the pipeline is a major spawning aggregation site with the average fish being breeding size

*consider not dropping lures and livies at the pipeline in the face of breeding threadfin until february/march

what i'm not saying is:

*nobody will ever catch a large threadfin as bycatch elsewhere in this period (consider refering to safe handling practices and releasing)

*dont drop livies anywhere in the river during this period (i've been livebaiting and throwing lures all around the mouth excluding the spawning area, have only produced 2 threadfin as bycatch in that 9 weeks. consider tighter structure where other species find more comfort)

*we should ban fishing in the river between september and february (...lol)

thats about it, i havent targetted and criticised anybody in this thread, all i'm doing is trying to make the wider public aware of breeding season and hoping it will make a differnce to threadfin becoming more prolific in our river. if anyone feels the need to object to that then go ahead, but consider for a moment what is so objectionalble about it

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Guys not much time so I will keep this short this thread is being run with good intentions please dont let it degenerate into the usual backbiting and snide comments which so often happens. The subject is something in which no one is an expert, myself included and I have spent a lot of time on the river chasing these fish. Lets use it as it was intended and hopefuly we can have some effect on the management of this fantastic fishery which we have in the river.

Regs Steve.

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I'm sure everyone realises nadders is well intentioned in this thread, as are others who have taken variant views.

What some members are annoyed at is the frequent pushing of these views in other threads.

Views that are based on surface logic that we have all been negatively affected by in the recent past. Views that are well intentioned but are premature and based on incomplete study.

It's great that there are threadfin in increasing numbers in the river for all to pursue. What hasn't been answered are questions like "What effect they are having on other species ?"; "What effect will an overpopulation have on their own species ?"; "What is the critical mass ?". There's only so much food to go around. Are threadies detrimental to the longer term health of the system ?. Is the size they convert to female dependant on the population, or average size of the overall population ?

Why aren't we seeing reports of the large size bream that the sunken wall has/was renowned for producing for decades in recent times ? Even the bully catch reports over the past few years have been reducing. Is the passion for thready support just fisherman selfishness ?

Less than a year ago nadders was self-confessed completely new to fishing, so perhaps he hasn't seen the multitude of large threadies that have been taken in the river and more specifically at the pipeline. It is not a well kept secret. However with all this pressure the population increase seems to be unhindered.

Of course the big question is what size will the BRC winner be this year ? :woohoo:

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hm well there was no real pushing of this view in other threads, one small statement sandwiched in "good job" and "well done" isn't a very hard push lol.

as for your points there, i guess the problem in general is lack of research, but do you really think we should keep targetting a major spawning site during spawning season on the off chance that theres too many and they're destroying the river?

you're right, i've only fished since about july last year. but past reports don't dissapear, i've probably read 5 years worht or reports or more and spoken to plenty of people who have fished for longer than i've been alive lol. from what i've picked up on 2006-8 had alot more thready catches than 2009, no i cant back it up with statistics lol. the brissy river is huge and long and chockers with bait, and in my short time fishing i've seen some great fish caught all around the river

i dont think we should assume threadies are raping the system so we should hit the breeding spots to keep them in check. the fact of the matter is they have a vulnerable breeding habit and are an indigenous species, i cant answer why they shot up in numbers 10 years ago but i also cant imagine why it would be a bad thing lol

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Bommie wrote:

nadders don't be a hypocrite you are the one that turned it into an argument and got personal because someone question a certain point but agrees with most of what you say :huh:

well, i'm not going to follow you into the dark alley you're leading me down, but i'm sure people can read through your posts and my posts and form their own decisions.

lets get back on track with keeping petty arguments out of this thread then

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Guys I have stayed out of this thread due to a good guess it would stir a few points of view and i do like to remain impartial sometimes :P

However in all seriousness, I think a couple of people, friends of mine included have really taken this thread in the wrong way.

First of all Nadders made this thread to avoid cluttering other peoples reports with off topic material. A good act that should be followed more often.

Second of all this thread is a suggestion based on educated opinion. Not a demand based on hard fact. Nadders has been pretty clear in all his explanations. He is not insisting you agree with him, just making a point.

Thirdly, whether or not the facts are 100% accurate or whatever, the suggestions have been made in the interest of a good thing, conservation. It is not an inciteful post giving members grief etc.

Proof should hopefully emerge eventually to validate any of the afore mentioned points of view. But until that time guys lets keep it civil.

Just my two cents.

Angus

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I think its all been said and a lot of us have learnt a bit more .

There are a few different opinions expressed but thats life.

Maybe its time for the mods and nadders ( after all he started the thread )to get together and edit/clean up the thread and lock it and keep it for its educational value.

Cheers

Ray

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rayke1938 wrote:

I think its all been said and a lot of us have learnt a bit more .

There are a few different opinions expressed but thats life.

Maybe its time for the mods and nadders ( after all he started the thread )to get together and edit/clean up the thread and lock it and keep it for its educational value.

Cheers

Ray

good suggestion it could do with a cleanup. might be hard for me to be impartial about what gets cleaned and what doesnt so i will opt out of the editing process lol :P

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Looks like the majority have taken this post with the good will it was intended, there will always be a few resistant to changes, it took a lot of years to stop the old boys putting knives into breeding flaties, some still cant stop despite the rules.

In the face of the obvious I think afo could do something positive about it and have a closed season on reporting of catches of large breeding female threadfin till the end of the breeding season. Perhaps a limit on the number of reports about it by each individual.

cheers

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hi dan..this is a difficult issue for me as i have no connection to threadies one way or the other. a fish is a fish if you like. imho if there's a seasonal closure for fish it should be total that way we'd have heaps of fish stocks all round. i'd certainly be behind any preservation of fish by ways of legal size and bag limits. for mine i reckon most fish should have upper and lower limits. i'd like all fish to have a minimum size of 30cm..or what suits that particular specie. the dpi seem to think the bag and size limits have worked fairly well. the biggest problem fish face is sites like ours (there's many of em) where some people get info about where they are..how to catch em and so take the easy route and hammer that spot. that's human nature tho..and why we need something in place to protect fish. what i would like to know is how long the threadfin population has been there? they're being reported in the caboolture river now too so in our area seem widespread (are they spreading). on my part i've not heard of threadies in the area until fairly recently (5 years or so). therefore they could be under threat of overfishing as more people find out about em..or they breed quite freely and can sustain their numbers..that is until the pro's find a market for them. does anyone have any info on the threadies population or indeed where they sprang from? good to see someone care mate ;)

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Angus wrote:

However in all seriousness, I think a couple of people, friends of mine included have really taken this thread in the wrong way.

I dont think so, same old banned members (and their mates) back on again stirring up trouble - again.

Anyone who criticises a fellow fisho for fishing legally is doing nothing but supporting the green movement. It just helps them drive a wedge between fisho's leading to further erosion of our ability to fish.

We must make a stand against further erosion of our fishing rights, or one day you wont be having a fish at all. So anyone who has a shot at another fisho for legal fishing practices is going to be getting a shot straight back from me. Wake up to yourselves and see how the greens are breaking us apart from the inside.

I post no fishing reports anymore because I am sick of the green brigade.

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you are sounding a little paranoid feral, i have no reason to stir trouble and if that was my intention i would actually be throwing insults and making insinuations about what i think of people and their actions personally

it's fairly obvious what this thread is about, and your comments about the green movement are worrying. legally the regulations regarding threadfin salmon in queensland are not based on any information at all from the brisbane area. the dpi&f's sources are outdated and state noosa as the southern range as Ray posted up. How is it a bad thing for fisho's to have an environmental concern for our own fishery, sure we can bury our head in the sand and say "if its legal its OK" but what if it's not OK.

its legal for me to go and take 5 threadies a day, every day of the week, every week of the year. its legal for me to get my 5 threadies, then decide i want some snapper, so go and expand my esky to fit 5 snapper in there. Then i am legally allowed to go and bag out on bream, etc.

what will break us apart from the inside is NOT talking about things like this, NOT discussing the impact of doing certain things at certain times in certain places, and not having any concern for the populations of the fish we chase. those are the things that will bring doom and gloom to our pasttime.

I get the feeling from your post that from the beginning you have had s**t stirrer goggles on, that is, you have come into the discussion with the preconception that we are not being genuine and simply trying to stir trouble. i promise you this has nothing to do with stirring trouble, i grew out of being 13 years old 10 years ago.

this is out of genuine concern and genuine good will toward our fishery, nothing more and nothing less

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