Greens

[Tiny Tin]

a recent post got me to making this effort. to some the green movement is just a joke. it's far from it. i was talking to a bloke who told me he was in cairns attending some show. outside the show was a couple of people asking people to sign a petition to save the coral sea. many people going past were stopped. they replied save the what?? then said oh yeah whatever where do i sign. the people asking the questions were from PEW. they are hell bent on preserving the coral sea and whilst many fishos think someone else will sort it..the facts as they stand now are they wont. i remember the guns loby trying to keep their hunting rights..they lost. they said back then that fishing would be in their sights next..and it is. some countries (i have been informed) have bowed to the greens and banned rec fishing. the labour government we have in place now will do anything to keep the greens onside to stay in power. do you think rudd gives a toss about fishing. imo there isn't a single fishing institution that is worthy of the name. we have sunfish..queensland marine and many other mobs all vying for their own sake rather than uniting under one banner..good intentions but they're pretty much on the back foot with this coral sea closure. if i were a betting man i'd say it will happen..what's to stop em? i'm all for conservation so long as it's balanced. but the PEW and the greens don't give a fig. they've obviously targeted fishing as it must be an easy one..or they would target deforestation or something but their main priority is to stop recreational fishing. whilst we sit about and just mull over it these guys are setting up stalls and pinching signatures to go along with parts of the tourism industry selling greens tours..sight seeing etc,.this is not a half hearted effort..it's full on. would anyone care to place anything of value in the hands of one mr Garrett..you know the bloke who said..yeah miners that's a green zone but shit we could do with the money so it's yours. i also should mention that the facts these people are using are also very wrong..i can't go into the ins and outs it'll take ages but the PEW are misguiding people who know or care very little about the coral sea..thanks for enduring..

[yoyo]

i'm back up there in a couple of weeks so i'll keep an eye out for them and give 'em hell if their claims/figures are wrong/misleading.........

[Tiny Tin]

yoyo wrote:

i'm back up there in a couple of weeks so i'll keep an eye out for them and give 'em hell if their claims/figures are wrong/misleading.........

just got told there's an article in the NQ FISH & BOAT mag. it details a very similar story to the one i presented. i'm not certain but isn't the coral sea part of the pacific? so does it reach as far down as brisbane? i know they're a bit bothered by it in bundy so?

[Old Scaley]

Tin man, the Coral Sea reaches to the Qld/NSW border, so anywhere offshore down our way is the Coral Sea.

[HookedOnTackle]

the problem is, these nutters would rather be fighting politics and for ideals, while we want to be out fishing.

pew group, aptly named for all the bs they spit out.

[Tiny Tin]

Old Scaley wrote:

Tin man, the Coral Sea reaches to the Qld/NSW border, so anywhere offshore down our way is the Coral Sea.

thanks mate..it's important to highlight coz i think a lot of people see this issue as immaterial as they think it's a barrier reef thing..but it has far more reaching effect than that. it's our future too.

[Whiskers]

Good ridence to the guns! and there is no way fishing will ever be banned as it is a major part of our tourism.

Tourism=money=happy pollies

[wesfish]

your wrong there whiskers it has been stated many times they want 100% closures of fishing , one thing you right about though is money equals happy pollies , so next will be stupid fees just to have a fish in the salt, but that money will not be used to restock or fund breeding programmes, it is our god given right to fish for free , we pay enough in boat regos and trailer regos , take a look at NSW tell me one rocky headland you can fish around byron bay , none because of green zones, it wont be long before every single bit of rocky out crop along the entire east coast of australia will be green zones if the greens get their way! there is enough evidence out there that hte greens have all ready won the first battle , now will be the time for a fishing power to fight against them for the second battle or the war will be lost.

[Bommie]

the Australian Underwater Federation is probably the one group that has the most success in standing up for rec. fishers, have a look at their website, they have successfully stopped closures in the past(NSW)

/>http://www.auf.com.au/

[Tiny Tin]

Whiskers wrote:

Good ridence to the guns! and there is no way fishing will ever be banned as it is a major part of our tourism.

Tourism=money=happy pollies

your exactly the kind of guy the greens are banking on. most of the money made in fishing is from boating..which a lot of people will continue to do. a lot of charter boats will simply swap to 'sight seeing tours..enviro tours' and the massive amounts of money the commercial sector can make from exporting to china are massive (doubt that you'd care to read the doco). it's not all about the banning of fishing it's about your right to fish where when and how you like. that's already been eroded. as for guns the point is..duck shooting i think it was..there's no difference to a green between killing a duck with a gun than you or i killing a fish. in fact it would be much more humane killing an animal with a gun. the fact also remains that the gun boys didn't think duck shooting would get banned either. in the UK you'd reckon the royal family would have a bit of power but not when it came to the greens. they banned fox hunting and foxes over there are in plague proportions. just watching idiots (on tv) mishandling fish..throwing them straight on ice or fiddling around trying two or three times to stab em would have half the nations neutrals feeling pretty sad and on side with the greens. not to mention the deaths of dugongs..dolphins..turtles..seabirds at the hands of fisherman..that happens too. so that's how we are being portrayed. the fact that all this has been brought about by foreign interception should also give you some ides of the magnitude these people are fighting on. how much of the green zones did any rec fisho's really have a say on. it was the ol democratic rule..let em have a say then ignore em. there's a big push on the recos part (NQ) to have a fishing license introduced just so we have a the money to fight the greens in court. the reason i brought this thread up is for those who sit on th fence saying everything is fine..how can anyone have this attitude when we've lost over a third of our fishing areas in the first round..disguised as 16% of the bay as green zones. in WA they have a closed season for demersal fish from october to december. if that works out there it could soon be happening here. don't forget eco tourism is the fastest growing business in the world. tourism is what queensland relies on most of all for a whole heaps of industries (maybe a close second to mining). so be prepared to start paying for your fishing via a license..having extended seasonal fishing closures..having less choice of areas to fish and having more bag and size limits thrust upon you. 'can't happen' you've said..it already has across the whole of australia. :dry:

[chaujern]

If I had clout and the resources I would fund an independent group of researches who would review the research methodology and findings of research used in determining green zones.

They would then publish their results for better or worse

[nannah]

These people have no idea what they are talking about and they are like professional protesters, out to make a big noise and they don't give a stuff who they hurt as long as their perspective is the one that is acted on. Most of them don't even believe in what they are protesting about and their information is mostly fabricated or completely out of date. They get these mindless (usually left wing) uni graduates and fill their empty space (where the brain should be), tell them what they want and get them to do their dirty work to 'save the planet', which is another way of saying, 'we want control of everything people do'.

It is a power and control thing, (with demands coming from outside sources) and of course, if our fisheries get closed, then we will have to buy from other sources overseas from dirty, filthy waters with no way of knowing what chemicals etc. is in the fish they supply.

The current Govt. will give anyone what they want as long is they think it will keep them in power or give Kevin a better image to his overseas masters. If it enhances his image for when he goes for that top job at the UN then he will be all for it (who gives a stuff, what it costs the rest of australia, as long as he gets what he wants). It is the same with all this 'climate' crap.

We MIGHT be able to stop it, IF every rec. fisho sent their political representative a message that IF this is approved, they (the political representative) will be OUT OF A JOB after the next election because we will vote for someone who WILL stand up for us and look after OUR interests instead of these overseas masters.

[Feral]

OK, had a long reply to the threadfin thread go up in smoke when it got locked during my typing, but probably better it goes here anyway, had nothing to do with that original thread. even if I do have to rewrite it all!

My take, position, what ever you want to call it is as follows.

It does not matter what your personal position is in regard to legal fishing activities. They are legal, which means allowed, people should not be pillared for doing them. Nor should they be nagged at because someone else does not agree with them, be it a rabid green, or another fisho.

I have no problem if you have an opinion in regard to changing legal fishing methods, good science to back it up etc etc. but go tell it to your politician, that is the only place it might actually be worth your effort to express it. I'll even come with you! (But I doubt it will do much good, politicians do not have a good current record for listening to well thought out ideas backed by genuine research).

The reason I say this is that currently whether you believe it or not, we are in the trenches fighting for the basic rights we have to fish. Every year these rights are eroded further, some years in big chunks (aka the recent Green zones introduction), other years smaller chunks, or if we are very lucky no change at all. Never do we regain any ground we have already lost.

My opinion is we must defend every legal fishing right / law/ ability we have as hard as we can. We must not give the greens any fodder to use against us, whether be be extreme fishing practices shown on the news or division within our ranks.

Here is a scenario to try and explain what I mean.

As a fisho you will all have various opinions on what you do in regard to fishing, many of you will have your own morale positions which govern how you fish, what and when you fish, mostly these will be on the legal side of the tally board, most fisho's do genuinly want to preserve the fish stocks, improve fishing etc etc (although some will be on the illegal side, there is always that element in any group of people). I'll call this your own "personal line in the sand".

So, you pride yourself on being a good fisho, look after the fishery etc etc. They change the rules on threadfin Salmon, making a closed season for 6 months because a minimal amount of science and a lot of opinions says fish have been seen with roe in them over a 6 month period.

Your happy with that, you dont target the fish, its not over your line in the sand. However that old bloke that used to go and get himself a salmon once a week for a feed no longer gets his feed, his is not to happy because the rules have been changed on poor science, but a lot of opinion. So he takes up knitting because he doesnt bother with his weekly fish anymore, he was only looking to feed himself and his family and doesn't really fancy eating catfish.

Anyway a few more changes are made, a few more small things are disappearing regularly, but its still not over your own personal "Line in the sand". However it is over the line for a few other blokes here and there, they are indignant, they have lost what they love above fishing, so they have also taken up knitting as it is no longer worthwhile fishing for them.

Anyway to cut my rambling short, the greens have had a few good small wins and the odd large win (once again just like those green zones) when they decide to lobby for the Model from certain European countries that they have managed to introduce. They target catch and release fishing practices.

Catch and release fishing is banned because it is cruel and barbaric, picture all those poor little "sea kittens" on the box flopping about struggling for their lives, then only to be callously tossed back in to the ocean, easy prey for predators when they have reached the point of exhaustion. (Green style embelishments there just to set the tone).

Your outraged! How dare they! Life as you know it has come to an end! YOu march on parliament house, you write to the paper, you jump up and down on forums, you do everything you can, but guess what, your all alone.

All the other blokes who's "line in the sand" has already been crossed have already given up in disgust and taken up knitting, because no one supported them (did you?). All the other blokes who are still fishing think your just a neanderthall from the past who has to get with the times, because their own personal "line in the sand" has not yet been reached.Fishing will be better off without you anyway!

The example we need to follow is the NRA in America, although I loath them and what they do, they are a perfect example of what a group of sportsman can do if they are unitied and defend their rights to the bitter end.

So that is why I am so passionate about defending the fishing rights of all fisho's and get pissed right off when when someone tries to undermine or weaken those rights, or has a shot at someone who exercises those rights. I probably do not agree with their activities, but to paraphrase a dead yank, I'll defend their right to undertake that activity to the end, because I want someone standing at my shoulder defending the rights that are important to me when the time comes.

By the way - Knitting classes are 7:30 wednesday nights at the CWA. I'll save you a seat. You'll be along to join me sooner or later.

(Pinched this of a kids website, it amused me!)

[apoklyps60]

we have the same thing going on here. apparently they are trying to close 100 of miles of shoreline to recreational fishing. i already wrote to my senate supporting proposition 2. this is what it entails.

The goal of California's sportfishing advocates and anglers is to protect the marine environment while minimizing unwarranted closures California’s coastal waters to recreational fishing.

The purpose of pursuing this goal is to:

* Maintain and improve the conservation of California marine fisheries and associated marine resources so as to improve the overall health of the ocean;

* Assure that the process for future closures or designations under California's Marine Life Protection Act relies on biological and economic information in a balanced fashion; and

* Increase sportfishing opportunities in California from their current economic and participation levels.

our governor (the Terminator) is supporting the tree huggers. our recreational fisheries here bring in close to 2.7 billion dollars a year for sportfishing retail sales, which are equivalent to the value of the state's grape harvest. even tho we pour all this money into our states revenue coffers they are still trying to shut us down. we have several sport fishing associations here vying for one goal. to presevre the fishery for future generations. it took years to get these groups together hopefully your groupos will come together like ours did. good luck guys.

[rayke1938]

This was in yesterdays Daily Telegraph. ( Wouldnt get a chance of being printed in Qld paper) and is an example of the power that the greens are already weilding in the current political scene.

Cheers

Ray

Rivers scandal a blight on Bligh

* By Piers Akerman

* From: The Sunday Telegraph

* Sun Oct 18 00:00:00 EST 2009 Sun Oct 18 00:00:00 EST 2009

WHEN next you see a "Save Cape York'' bumper sticker on a car in a suburban shopping mall, ask the car's muddle-headed owner: save Cape York from what?

The Save Cape York campaign is a Wilderness Society special, blessed by Queensland Premier Anna Bligh and given a big nod by the Rudd government.

But the campaign has been based on lies and run by a green-tinged state bureaucracy that takes its riding instructions from the environmental movement.

It's a textbook example of what happens when the rights of locals are trampled by a state government beholden to a special interest group that claims it can deliver election-changing blocs of votes in strategic electorates.

It's backed by a federal government that would prefer to acquire international kudos through the declaration of a World Heritage area than stand up for the rights of its own citizens.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.

End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

Cape York Peninsula is under no threat. It doesn't need saving.

The campaign was devised to provide a vehicle for the Wilderness Society to convince the Queensland and federal Labor parties its extreme environmentalists could become significant political players.

Claiming the cape was under threat from the timber industry and mining, the society induced the Queensland Government to introduce the Wild Rivers Act, effectively locking up the Cape and freezing out locals, including the traditional owners.

Cape York indigenous leader Noel Pearson pointed out some of the many falsehoods and inconsistencies in the society's claims at a meeting in Cairns late last week where he flagged a submission to the Queensland Government's integrity and accountability review - a laughable project in that historically corrupt state.

Pearson's submission focuses on the issue of transparency, a quality lacking in Queensland government processes, and highlights the lack of checks and balances that led to the government rushing through gazettal of the Wild Rivers Act within two weeks of the March state election.

This was done under pressure from the Wilderness Society and without any consideration of the rights and interests of the local Aboriginal communities.

Pearson said Cape York was under no threat from logging. There's only one sawmill at Cooktown, a small, historic operation dealing with a single species, Darwin stringy bark, that proliferates across the Top End.

Nor is the Cape under threat from mining. The two mines that operate have been in place for about 50 years.

But the ``Save the Cape'' campaign has a catchy slogan, and its supporters live in middle-class electorates well away from those who have first-hand knowledge of the area.

Pearso

believes environmental activists who used to pressure the government from outside the public service are now on the inside, writing policy so it fits their own agenda.

The Queensland public service is no longer impartial, he says, offering as evidence that then natural resources and water minister Craig Wallace denied traditional owners an extension of time to lodge submissions.

Pearson says this was on the advice of the Wilderness Society, despite Wallace considering late submissions from others, including ones solicited by the society.

There was no imminent threat of development to the so-called wild rivers, and no need to rush any declarations in relation to the rivers, yet the minister proceeded regardless of local indigenous communities' concerns.

Pearson rightly asks why Wallace advised Aborigines from the Lockhart, Archer and Stewart River areas to seek the society's support before the government would consider their request for an extension to comment on the government's proposal.

It was a decision to be made by the minister (Wallace), not by a proxy, and certainly not by a lobby group well-known to oppose the local Aborigines' claim to their traditional area.

Yet the minister insisted they needed to get the permission of the Wilderness Society, not the government, to proceed.

Although Anna Bligh claimed last Decemberthe declaration had been "carefully crafted to get the balance right between graziers, industry, traditional owners and the environment'', there was no consultation with the traditional owners from the time formal submissions closed on November 22 last year and the April gazettal of the rivers legislation.

Further, although Aboriginal communities were denied the chance to make late submissions, 792 submissions deemed not to have been made "properly'' were considered - and most of these late submissions were from Wilderness Society supporters.

Despite the lack of transparency in the legislative process, some idea of the workings of the green-tinged bureaucracy can be gleaned from Bligh's claims that only three rivers are involved (although 13 are named), and when the legislation covers everything in the catchment of those rivers - that is, wherever rain falls that may eventually make its way into the 100 or so rivers and creeks on Cape York.

In its bid to keep the lid on this scandal, the Bligh government has not released any documents relating to the wild rivers declaration for nearly five months, despite the Premier's claims to be a champion of transparency.

There are no review or appeal processes, and those immediately affected - the local Aboriginal communities - have been denied natural justice.

Queenslander Kevin Rudd, his eyes fixed on his international reputation, doesn't want to know.

He hasn't lifted a finger to help the most vulnerable in our community fight against a massive injustice - again.

[Angus]

Very interesting thread.

Some very good opinions and points of view raised I believe.

Not being totally up to speed with all the up to date details on what the greens want (among) others has left me feeling a bit guilty... Why? Because I guess I have not taken the time to find out as to date, my "line in the sand" had not been crossed. As someone forever trying to expand their fishing horizons, not limit them however I now feel quite obliged to seek more i formation in the future.

We should elect an official AFO Political panel to bring these issues to the floor more regularly and more officially After all, you dont need to agree with any of the points raised, but its better to know the rights can and cant excercise before you loose them.

Angus

[rayke1938]

There are a few different groups that are politically active in this arena who state they look after fishos interests.

Sunfish

Ecofishers

Australian lifestile and fishing party

Aust Shooters & Fishing Party

the last 2 are actual political parties.

The ASFP has a couple of members in NSW parliment ( I think)

Shame we cant be all coindinated.

Cheers

Ray

If you want to google them and see what they are all about.

[ellicat]

http://www.australianfishing.com.au/forum/96-environment/220060-rust-never-sleeps

[ellicat]

Just had a browse through the "Environment" forum....
/>http://www.australianfishing.com.au/forum/96-environment/page-3

Now I'll be cranky for the rest of the day :evil:

[elops]

After reading Rays post I thought I would add this the Noosa River is a declared "wild river" under the Wild Rivers act, hasnt helped it a great deal.

Regs Steve.

[wesfish]

elops wrote:

After reading Rays post I thought I would add this the Noosa River is a declared "wild river" under the Wild Rivers act, hasnt helped it a great deal.

Regs Steve.

nah not with the nut farms and their chemicals!!!!

[Tiny Tin]

rayke1938 wrote:

There are a few different groups that are politically active in this arena who state they look after fishos interests.

Sunfish

Ecofishers

Australian lifestile and fishing party

Aust Shooters & Fishing Party

the last 2 are actual political parties.

The ASFP has a couple of members in NSW parliment ( I think)

Shame we cant be all coindinated.

Cheers

Ray

If you want to google them and see what they are all about.

thanks for this list ray..this is the point i've been trying to get across for a very long time. if these groups were to united under one banner so to speak they could still keep their own importance and identity(locally) yet serve the greater good (nationally). problem is they are all pulling in different directions. i used to fish in the uk fresh water. i had to have a rod license..then i had to have a rod license for every rod i owned..then i had to get a rod license for every county i fished in..i guess five close to me and many more further afield. all this wasn't enough for the greens and they would organise rallies at fishing comps and stone the blokes fishing. this is all catch and release btw. lead was banned as were some types of bait..i dunno where it all sits today as it was years ago (that's how long this has been going on). i posted a doco here some time ago that stated the decimation of fish stocks in china even tho the Chinese were saying otherwise. India is another country about to lose it's fish stocks. can you imagine how much money is there to be made from exporting fish to the two largest economies in the world. couple this to the green movement and we're very small fry indeed. i keep raising these issues because it's not the fact fishing maybe banned. it already has been in some areas..that is exactly what the sign says on a green zone..no fishing..it's banned. the green zone just makes it more palatable. someone said the greens have had small wins? i reckon if you take a look at an oceanic map australia wide they've had massive wins. there are also headlands in bundy where you cannot fish from so they're building a very strong case with very little argument coming back from the rec fishers. no gov' gives a toss about a few names on a petition from cairns or a scribe in the monthly bush n beach or queensland monthly. nope it's all or nothing. the B&B etc or some other institute with a large number of followers needs to call all these rec fishers groups together. they've ignored my emails or the queensland marine mob at any rate (thought they were a big group). i also bring up these topics in other online sites. it's very useful for finding out what condition we're in..it aint good. the poor buggers up north are trying hard but as i see it they're largely on their own..as aptly described earlier the pew/greens haven't 'crossed our line in the sand' yet..oops but they have eh. the coral sea runs down to NSW..and a large part of the bay is now green zoned. so it's our fight too..that's what i make of it anyway. like i said we ignored the hunting guys and now it's our turn. but who is this magical figure some are waiting for to come to our aid and turn back the multi millionaires (pew) and the greens...

[rayke1938]

I have copied this from Ausfish with permission.

It has become apparent that we need lots of new members NOW to meet the Aust Electoral Commissions requirements. If we do not get enough members by mid October they will deregister the Party.

This would be a huge blow to the cause to say the least.

All the information, flyer and membership forms are attached. Please make the time to read them.

For any additional information, please contact:-

Wayne Bayne - Mitchells Marine: mitchells@iig.com.au

Robert Erskine - Erskine’s Tackle World: robert@erskinestackleworld.com.au

Peter Todd - Aqua Cat Fishing Charters: aquacatcharters@iprimus.com.au

Steve - Cairns Ocean Products: - admin@cairnsoceanproducts.com.au

Or phone Wayne at Mitchells Marine on: 07 40 513512

OR online: www.aflp.org.au

We believe that there is a list a mile long of closures and changes they want to make around Australia to fishing, camping and 4WD areas.

I know you all love to fish & enjoy the outdoors as I do. I fear that without the influence we have through the AFLP party we may well get “steam rolled†on a numbers of issues now & into the future.

Cost of membership - $40 for single for 3years or $50 for family membership for 3 years. The cost of a carton of beer... A pretty cheap insurance policy for our recreational rights!

Please note that when you fill the forms out, each family member over 17yrs can join but there must be a separate form for each person, and they must be using the same address.

Unfortunately the time constraints only allow us to accept cash or cheques. The address to send it to is on the bottom of the membership form.

Please forward this to everyone you know far and wide from Weipa to Wollongong, from Broome to Bermagui, these issues will affect all of us!

Remember.......†Fishing is not a matter of life & Death...it’s far more serious than thatâ€.

Let’s not let it all slip away through complacency.

Its only $40 get in before they cross your line in the sand cause then it will be too late.

Cheers

Ray

[Feral]

Here is a prime example of the social engineering currently underway. When these kids come out of school do you think they will look for the science behind anything, or just take what the greens tell them as gospel ?

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26259765-953,00.html

I'm now worried there wont be any wool for my knitting classes!

[Tiny Tin]

I have copied this from Ausfish with permission.

It has become apparent that we need lots of new members NOW to meet the Aust Electoral Commissions requirements. If we do not get enough members by mid October they will deregister the Party.

This would be a huge blow to the cause to say the least;

hi Ray i'll be brytely honest here. i should sign up for this no doubt at all. probably will but this is one of the things i've spoken about in the past...what does this mob actually do? what have they done? this isn't me being picky it's the fact that i and i'd say many many others do not know what issues they have raised? so why is it that a party fighting for fisho's ect doesn't let the fishing public know what they're doing? why do these groups not email to places like AFO..ausfish to keep everyone informed? the party is in dire trouble and now we get to hear from them..it doesn't sound like a well run outfit to me? do the people who run these parties know how many people they can reach just by doing what you have done. i would suggest that they keep members of AFO/ausfish etc informed by dropping an email in once in a while. the more poeple see of these groups the more they can be trusted. imo this is a bit like the prime minister popping out election days to kiss babies..what about the rest of the time..what have they been up to? you've done a good job ray and despite the negativity in this post i am on board with this. the thing is i should be jumping out of my seat shouting..bloody hell lets help out..but the anominminity of this group has put doubts in my mind. i simply do not know what they do. it's time for them to change their tactics and inform people like me..the lazy but caring community.. so we can act in a proper manner not just when they're about to get booted out. there are some right idiots who form political parties..how do we know about these guys if they aren't telling us. hope you know what i mean ray and i'll apologise upfront if i'm sounding anti party..i'm not just never heard about their fights on our part. would it be worth AFO members to digitally sign a petition to counter act the ones by the PEW..PETA? it would take a lot of footwork to get 5000 signatures same thing could be done at ausfish..bundynfish..fishaholics whether we get along doesn't matter it's all for our futute rights to enjoy what we do. we could pass this on in support of other fisho's..like the guys in cairns and still sign up for the political arm. i'd certainly be willing to give it a try..cheers

[rayke1938]

I think they originated in cairns area as a result of the barrier reef marine parks issue and have grown from there.

They were very active over this issue and ran in a few seats in the last state election. Locally i think that Shayne Bose from watertower bait and tackle had a go.

There originally was a bit of infighting as they sorted themselves out but now they seem more coordinated in their efforts but like most emerging groups they suffer from a lack of funds and organisation.

They have had quite a few articles in QFM and B&B and were quite outspoken on Nugget fishing before the election.They do get a mention on Ausfish from time to time but seem to rely on word to mouth advertising as do most volunteer groups.

They have had a lot of support from Barnaby Joyce and have had a few wins over the marine parks issue and had a lot of criminal convictions overturned.

Cheers

Ray

[Tiny Tin]

rayke1938 wrote:

I think they originated in cairns area as a result of the barrier reef marine parks issue and have grown from there.

They were very active over this issue and ran in a few seats in the last state election. Locally i think that Shayne Bose from watertower bait and tackle had a go.

There originally was a bit of infighting as they sorted themselves out but now they seem more coordinated in their efforts but like most emerging groups they suffer from a lack of funds and organisation.

They have had quite a few articles in QFM and B&B and were quite outspoken on Nugget fishing before the election.They do get a mention on Ausfish from time to time but seem to rely on word to mouth advertising as do most volunteer groups.

They have had a lot of support from Barnaby Joyce and have had a few wins over the marine parks issue and had a lot of criminal convictions overturned.

Cheers

Ray

thanks Ray..good to hear i'll get onto this and sign up. we need someone on our side. i think between our posts it shows how difficult it is for these groups to get recognition. i hope a few like minded people sign up. the more i read on these issues the more intense the lobbying seems to be on behalf of the greens etc,. we need a few good men on our side that's for sure. how many people from here are members or will sign up now our only voice in parliament is about to be taken away? each to their own as always but i'm compelled to coz i don't want to someday say..shit if i did a little back then we could still be fishing. the greens have crossed my little line in the sand so i'm off to join the good guys..cheers

[Tiny Tin]

Ray..i've just printed off 3 copies of the membership forms. it costs $50 for a family for 3 years of membership. each person has to fill in one form. hopefully each person will count as one vote not one vote under a family? c'mon guys if you can spare a bit of cash sign up and help yourselves continue to have the right to the australian way of life..there's nothing better so lets do what we can to preserve it. cheers

[Dooley]

i find this topic laughable. Rather than complain and try to do something about what has ALREADY been lost (and most people it seems do not have a clue about how good the fishing used to be in the bay)peeps are happy to complain about trying to keep and preserve WHAT fishing we have NOW - even if it means they don't understand the SCIENCE behind the decisions that have been made to protect what LITTLE is left.

Noone in there right mind could ever convince me the fishing around the bay is better now than what it used to be 10, 20, 30 years ago. Something has been happening around Brissy for the last 30 years that has been affecting the quality and quantity of fish in and around the bay and it's rivers.

In a couple of other threads locals who know the eco-system as well as I do mention there isn't the constant fresh coming down the rivers and creeks. I agree. Why is this happening? More people are moving to Brissy and they need water like the rest of us. Hence the dams. Trouble is most of the people moving here want fresh water AND the mangroves that keep our bay clean, bulldozed and bloody grass and views to replace them.

That and most fisherman that move up here and fish in the bay do NOT understand that the bloody bay used to be a nursery for everything from tiger sharks and whales to bloody prawns, bream, fingermark perch, whiting and nearly every other bloody estuary fish that migrates up and down the eatern seaboard. It pretty much has had the dick as far as that goes because MORE people continue to move here and they want to fish it like the bloody hawkesbury or botany bloody bay.

The only way you can stop the CONTINUING stuffing up of the bay is to protect it from IDIOTS that think it is their RIGHT to do whatever they think is OKAY - as long as they get to do their thing - and to hell with the rest.

More people are "catch and release" good luck to them. I'm a catch and consume guy - good luck to me. The bottom line though is this - if your primary concern is how you can continue to keep gutting the fishery to enjoy what LITTLE is left in the bay then I feel sorry for you and I wish and hope you have many donuts ahead of you.

Asfar as protecting the Coral Sea goes I think you'll find it means that the fishery rapists from the rest of asia won't be able to come and plunder it like they do now. It sure as hell isn't going to affect me fishing from the shoreline - hell it might even mean that i might be able to jag a few spanish or yellowfin of Shorncliffe AGAIN like I did (and plenty of others) when i was a kid.

I'll tell you what i'm willing to gamble on - more conservation zones to bring the bay back to what it used to be like. Rather that than gambling on doing nothing and watching the bay go completely down the gurgler from people who's main concern is to be allowed to fish whenever and wherever they boody well like - and to hell with the rest of us.

end of rant

[ellicat]

If the bloody DPI&F is to be bloody believed, the bloody science shows that recreational bloody fishing has a bloody benign effect on the bloody stock levels. :pinch:

When/If 100% of the bay is locked away you wont be able to enjoy a fishing trip there.

If it's 50%, you will only get passing pelagics....you know all the reefs (barring Harries artificial carpark) will be the next to go.

There are portions of the newly zoned MBMP that were zoned green not to protect fish, but said to be for protecting nesting sites of the abundant Eastern Curlew. Apparently it has nothing to do with the apparent abundance of baitfish available.

There are parts that are greenzoned to protect dugong. Apparently only boats that are stationary with a fishing line out in these areas are the ones that run over them. Yes the 1.6 (av) dugongs that die from boat strike annually are only hit by people fishing there. It's not the plethora of other boaters venturing through the zone. Apparently the 1200 dugong taken annually by aboriginals for "traditional" food has less impact also.

Stock depletion has a lot more to do with the environment the fish have to endure than it does with the rec take. Take note of the Brissy River. 20 - 30 years ago it was catfish and sludge. To think, since dredging ceased and the substantial reduction to pollution pouring into the river, that you can catch flathead and whiting as far up as Kooka park, putty nose perch are back, threadfin abound throughout the salt, juvenile jew numbers appear to be on the increase is quite amazing. It is pretty obvious that the increased numbers of people fishing it these days are not putting much of a dint in the benefits from cleaning up the fish's environment.

There is nothing laughable about the opinions expressed here in this thread. On the contrary it's a crying shame that we opposed for the right reasons are muted for political effect, or pilloried by the media as "knucle dragging neanderthals". The facts simply do not stack up for what has been done or what we fear will continue to be expanded on.

It's also concerning that people are continuing to be educated by popularisms.

Bloody hell !

[rayke1938]

From dooley

In a couple of other threads locals who know the eco-system as well as I do mention there isn't the constant fresh coming down the rivers and creeks. I agree. Why is this happening? More people are moving to Brissy and they need water like the rest of us. Hence the dams. Trouble is most of the people moving here want fresh water AND the mangroves that keep our bay clean, bulldozed and bloody grass and views to replace them.

I reckon that there is more fresh coming down in the bay than 30 years ago. The last dam built was wivenhoe and that was nearly 40 years ago.

Every new estate built increases the ammount of run off into our rivers and streams.

Unless you are building a new port or airport it is impossible to get approval to develop any area with mangroves.

The only significant mangrove destruction in the last 30 odd years has been at the mouth of the river for the port extension and the same with the seagrass beds destroyed to provide sand for the airport extension.

The dugong and turtle strikes in the southern bay are mainly due to the bay island ferries who pay a fee to allow them to go fast in the go slow areas.This will continue as the majority of island residents and misguided councillers do not wish to have a bridge to the bay islands.

It isnt just about restricting one area for one group of people.

Unless the state government and all regional councills are prepared to work together and look at the overall picture and develop a plan for the future using established scientific data and input from some of the fishing community ( Especially the old time pros such as the Crouches, Parkyns,Nicholls and others who have been netting the bay in a sustainable manner for generations )and other community groups ,I can only see the current pandering hotchpot stuff up continuing.

Thats my rant and I didnt say bloody once :laugh:

Cheers

Ray

[Feral]

Ellicat - Wednesday night mate, 7:30pm, I'm sure we can find a Gin Gin knitting circle. You can come to Dooley, once you realise (the hard way) that keeping fish and keeping on fishing are mutually exclusive goals to the greens.

Ellicat and I will keep you a seat. I figure if you bring your crochet needle, we may yet be able to put all that expensive braid to good use.

[ellicat]

See you there Feral. Not sure if I should knit a blindfold or crotchet a net ...

[waldo]

rayke1938 wrote:

There are a few different groups that are politically active in this arena who state they look after fishos interests.

Sunfish

Ecofishers

Australian lifestile and fishing party

Aust Shooters & Fishing Party

the last 2 are actual political parties.

The ASFP has a couple of members in NSW parliment ( I think)

Shame we cant be all coindinated.

Cheers

Ray

If you want to google them and see what they are all about.

AFLP used to the QLD branch of of the Australian fishing party which formed to try and fight the GBRMP zonings. In my opinion anyone that was worth supporting walked away from them.

Aust Shooters & Fishing Party in my opinion just added fishing to their name in the hope of picking up some stray votes at elections.

Ecofishers (qld) are little more than a month or two old. So far from what I have seen they are extremely anti green, anti labor, anti anyone that suggests old 2 stroke outboards cause pollution, anti DPI, anti RFL, anti sunfish, ........

Love em or hate them Sunfish at least have the runs on the board. They are the recognised peak recreational fishing representitive body in QLD.

I'm not a memeber of any of those mentioned nor will I ever be as they are.

[MOC]

Dooley you are way off the mark with your coral sea marine park comments PEW DO want to close the coral sea to all forms of fishing. see link to the afma site. http://www.afma.gov.au/environment/planning/PEW.htm

[rayke1938]

waldo wrote:[/

AFLP used to the QLD branch of of the Australian fishing party which formed to try and fight the GBRMP zonings. In my opinion anyone that was worth supporting walked away from them.

Aust Shooters & Fishing Party in my opinion just added fishing to their name in the hope of picking up some stray votes at elections.

Ecofishers (qld) are little more than a month or two old. So far from what I have seen they are extremely anti green, anti labor, anti anyone that suggests old 2 stroke outboards cause pollution, anti DPI, anti RFL, anti sunfish, ........

Love em or hate them Sunfish at least have the runs on the board. They are the recognised peak recreational fishing representitive body in QLD.

I'm not a memeber of any of those mentioned nor will I ever be as they are.

[HookedOnTackle]

In response Ray, like several others, i am wary who i give my money and "voice" to. If they turn out to be weak or self implode and lash out to the detriment of true environmentalism and fishing/outdoors. These groups do need people to send out press releases, even if they are just to fishing sites. Let people with an interest know they are being fought for, then they will come onboard in droves. Yeah, we do need those initial people, but for the majority of us we need people like you and Feral and others on here to shed a lot of light for us.

It isn't easy, but nothing worth doing ever is.

As for banning fishing on the Coral Sea protecting it from illegal fishing, how does illegal fishing cease when it is already illegal and you take away the groups of people who most want to protect it from the massive kill????? it's like opening a bank wide, taking away the security and putting the staff in Canberra and saying please, don't take anything...

On a side note, the live coral trout boats who send them to SE Asia were on the reef after that big depression earlier this year, one basically got a doughnut, the other three sent about 4500-5000 coral trout to our northern neighbours. Around 5000 of our premier fish stocks, gone!

[ellicat]

HookedOnTackle wrote:

........

On a side note, the live coral trout boats who send them to SE Asia were on the reef after that big depression earlier this year, one basically got a doughnut, the other three sent about 4500-5000 coral trout to our northern neighbours. Around 5000 of our premier fish stocks, gone!

That's not much in the big scheme of things.
/>http://www.australianfishing.com.au/community/downloads/doc_download/24-threats-to-the-great-barrier-reef

[Dooley]

MOC wrote:

Dooley you are way off the mark with your coral sea marine park comments PEW DO want to close the coral sea to all forms of fishing. see link to the afma site.

/>http://www.afma.gov.au/environment/planning/PEW.htm

umm. looking at the map the closest point of the marine park is about 100 km east north east of sandy cape of fraser. i'd say if you can't catch a fish outside that zone closer to the mainland than your spending more time getting to the fishing spot than you will be fishing - good luck with that.

Learning to knit and crotching - always thought it a good way to start to learn net making and repair. if more people made the effort to make their own pots and dillies instead of buying the cheap crap that floats away on a good runout tide there'd be a lot less trouble with fish and mammals being foul hooked by nylon netting...

I guess i can always learn more about the bay. i've only swam and fished in every creek, brook and river when i was a kid. worked on the trawlers out of cabbage tree, camped along most of the mangroves on the northern side of the bay, lived and worked a boat hire business in the mangroves on the pine river for 2 years back in the 80's, fished the bay as a kid with vic hislop (a dubious honour)and my old man. but i suppose you edumacating me bout the bay would be a waste of time compared to going down to the wharves at the mouth of the river and catching a few juvie snapper or targetting a fish that mostly inhabits a few hundred square metres at the mouth of boggy creek

I reckon that there is more fresh coming down in the bay than 30 years ago. The last dam built was wivenhoe and that was nearly 40 years ago.

The wivenhoe was only completed in 84, north pine in 76, enoggera upgraded in 76, manchester upgraded in 2008, Atkinson Dam 1970, clarenden 1992, Leslie Harrison Dam 1984 the bremer, brisbane and logan rivers also have plenty of weirs that prevent what used to flow down the brisbane and the natural sludge that fertilised the mangroves.

Stock depletion has a lot more to do with the environment the fish have to endure than it does with the rec take. Take note of the Brissy River. 20 - 30 years ago it was catfish and sludge. To think, since dredging ceased and the substantial reduction to pollution pouring into the river, that you can catch flathead and whiting as far up as Kooka park, putty nose perch are back, threadfin abound throughout the salt, juvenile jew numbers appear to be on the increase is quite amazing.

that sludge you refer to was the accepted norm for the river because it always had fresh coming down it with the seasonal downpours making the river almost fresh at times along with the logan albert pine and caboolture all making the whole bay at times brackish rather than salt. mmmm - more seawater fish further up the river? less catfish and mullet? sounds to me like there's less fresh coming down the river than there ever used to be - except for the occassional flash of runoff from a huge industrial estates on both sides of the river that basically act like a dose of the salts going through the mangroves and wiping out most small living things. If you get a chance head on up to coochin creek - thats sort of resembles what the northern end of moreton bay and the pine river used to be like - 30 years ago.

You are right on one count with regard to the environment having more of an effect than rec fishers direct impact on EXISTING fish numbers. However the existing fish numbers that are in the river aren't anything to crow about as most of them are juvies and they'll get flushed out to sea with the next big wet - and thats my point. the river and the bay USED to be a nursery - the unhealthy and marginal mangroves that still exist are not able to sustain the INCREASED and ever increasing rec or professional impact on the fishery stocks - most of the estuary fish in the bay are seasonal and usually the best time for fishing in and around the bay is when they come into spawn and feed after spawning or are chasing migrating schools of baitfish. The fish out in the river and bay don't stick around like impoundment fish in a dam.

Without the mangroves - no place for fish to spawn. If they don't come here to spawn ,they won't come into the bay. simple. oh a few juvies might come into the river because the water is mainly salt and there's a feed in the offing but it shouldn't be just about what can be caught in the river when they are passin by on migration waiting to get flushed out of the system by the next big wet.

A couple of my mates had fathers who worked on the docks down at pinkenba and hamilton - one was a p&d the other worked on the cement dredge. The fish I saw these guys bring home from a drop line in the river would boggle your mind. blokes would drop a whole mub crab or two on a shark hook and pull out enormous cod - with frighenting frequency. Jew and snapper (old man - not bloody pinkies that should be thrown back) that always made me think SAussies didn't know just how bloody big snapper could get. and when was the last time anybdy heard of a blokes catching A GARBAGE BUCKET of winteries off nudgee beach a common seasonal catch? or how bout the pin - does it still produce a 2 or 3 doz catch of elbow slappers for each of the few blokes that goes out?

You can't expect the system to improve unless you restore what used to be there. is it good, the river has less fresh coming down it - that doesn't help the mangroves and the juvies that live in them.

Perhaps I should just grab myself a pair of those blindfolds that are reffered to and ignore what i know from first hand experience to be the truth. Even better i could go and pay a bloody proffessional bunch of lobbyists to go and whinge on my behalf to let me continue to hammer the bay and river to death. Even better - I could listen to wishful dreams about the great health of the bay and river fishery and believe it.

Frogs in a pan of slowly boiled water.

As far as the dugongs are concerned I have never seen a dugong in the northern part of the bay or pine river. but they are cunning animals. Have spent time with Bardi people hunting water pigs and by christ it was scary being in a row boat in the dampier archipeligo at night during spring tides (10 meter).

[ellicat]

Nice rant, but the point remains that rec fishing has a benign effect on stock levels.

Population and the position of the population, mangrove reduction in the bay, .....and the plethora of other things that have been mentioned many times (including your own*) are the dominant reasons for a negative effect on stocks. Not fishing wont have any sizeable impact.

* Examples -

You can't expect the system to improve unless you restore what used to be there. is it good, the river has less fresh coming down it - that doesn't help the mangroves and the juvies that live in them

if more people made the effort to make their own pots and dillies instead of buying the cheap crap that floats away on a good runout tide there'd be a lot less trouble with fish and mammals being foul hooked by nylon netting

The wivenhoe was only completed in 84, north pine in 76, enoggera upgraded in 76, manchester upgraded in 2008, Atkinson Dam 1970, clarenden 1992, Leslie Harrison Dam 1984 the bremer, brisbane and logan rivers also have plenty of weirs that prevent what used to flow down the brisbane and the natural sludge that fertilised the mangroves

runoff from a huge industrial estates on both sides of the river that basically act like a dose of the salts going through the mangroves and wiping out most small living things

I have a father that has reported the same info as your friends' fathers, but never a snapper report from the river. I also recall fishing as a youngster around 35 - 40 years ago in the bay with my uncle, grandfather and father. There were plenty of times when an unsuccessful trip was had. Most old fellas never recount these times though. I have a mate that was a party to the catch of a large grouper from the river earlier this year. I'm sure that tale will be recounted in 30 years as an example of how great the fishing was in the river back in the early part of the century.

Make no mistake though, I also don't believe in a rape and pillage mentality. I believe the DPI&F should always be tinkering with size (and slot) limits so rec fishos can continue to be the leaders in the protection of their waterways. This makes more sense than lockouts IMO.

The fish out in the river and bay don't stick around like impoundment fish in a dam.

Plenty of fish do stick around - that's why they are caught almost all year round (for the common species - especially cod).

targetting a fish that mostly inhabits a few hundred square metres at the mouth of boggy creek

Assuming your speaking of threadies. Threadies are widely distributed in significant numbers throughout the river.

they'll get flushed out to sea with the next big wet

Disagree - we've had plenty of washes thru the river and thay're still around.

Sorry for the late reply....the man came to fix the washing machine and interrupted me. :laugh:

So what you are saying, sounds to me like you agree with us.....but don't agree that rec fishing hasn't destroyed what used to be....or do you ???

Do you believe we should all be locked out because we are the cause of your troubled catch rate ?

We aren't the cause, and I believe we are taking the brunt of a thoughtless, uninformed, bunch of green blinkered (and sometimes scurrilous) intolerable groups that have a voice that is far too loud and powerful, that have followers with a weak understanding of what and who they support, who make decisions and lobby for non-sensical garbage.