the great debate

[benno573]

brisbane_boy wrote:

fisheries can tip 20 thous barra fingerlings in tomorrow if they want

it cannot happen with threddies.

size limit of maybe 90-100cm if they breed over that makes sense to me, better than no protection at all, over to the scientists but for now ill err on side of caution and do my bit releasing and encouraging that until evidence proves we will be infested with threddys no matter how many get taken out.

ps

i ate some of the barra last nite, wasnt hugely impressed but i am fussy lol. mangrove jack is much nicer and perl perch even better.

never used to bother eating barra in Gladstone unless it was a really quiet day. They don't taste great and they don't fight that well either. Overrated all round. Imagine getting a snapper the same weight as that barra and tell me which one would go harder.

[brisbane_boy]

Do$tylz wrote:

^^ b-boy - wouldn't it be better conservation to just ease up on targetting them?? so instead of targetting and catching them every week (or however often you go out targetting them)... why not only go out once a month? I'm not singling you out, just using you as an example

Yes fisheries could tip 20 thousand fingerlings in... but who says that the ones that they have would survive in the Bris river?? those fingerlings they have could be conditioned to not survive in our waters... its a lot of ifs, buts and maybes... but to me.. it probably had more value left alive

Being its spawning season I personally have not fished the pipeline in 8 weeks seeing theres a large aggregation of breeding size fish there.

That is what I have personally done.

Your point is valid and the continual reports of some members with dead fish in that size range does beg that question.

Put it to those concerned, I have tried but they are within there rights.

The fishery is there now, it could go either way.

[Do$tylz]

but this is my point... targetting them anywhere would put pressure on them during spawning season. Just because a thready is hooked south of the city, doesn't mean it wasn't on its way to the pipeline... again not targetting you man... just bouncing ideas.

why specifically endorse and promote leaving them alone at the pipeline only, when they are all over the river at spawning size?

honestly... I think the guy that goes out to catch a thready once a year during spawning at the pipeline (or anywhere else) does a lot less damage than the guy that targets them once a week but catches and releases 5.

sorry I know its OT from the original post.. :blush:

[brisbane_boy]

Well I cant speak for your ideas, but if you want a total closed season give us some catch figures for "all over the river" at spawn size. I havnt found a larger concentration of breeders anywhere that the pipeline.

Im all for a simple max size of say 90cm. protect the breeders like large flathead, emd of story

[Do$tylz]

^^ I'd say that's probably a more reasonable restriction to place... lets hope that those crazy green groups don't get a smell of this and turn it into a stupid ban everything move

[Tiny Tin]

Hi dan..sure thing mate..i agree to an upper size limit..i reckon all fish should have one. it's great to catch a big fish. if there were upper limits we'd all have a chance at one..from each specie whilst securing the future of the fish. on the vid..it's the easiest way to put up an example..not an aim at you (you'd know that). i have mates i wouldn't take to some spots coz they'd be there every week. i found some people's reaction to the vid quite surprising a lack of respect i thought. it's why i think a lot of fishos like to see people put the hard yards in. btw..got into a few the other day..just after another brissy donut..apart from filling a bucket with bait. would be good if someone actually put up a post about threadies..growth rates..lifespan..sex..(once or twice a week i guess..less if they're married lol). it would be interesting to find out what the frames you guys provide tell the scientists. all the best dan.

[Tiny Tin]

ellicat wrote:

Tiny Tin, I agree, but I think the point/opinion nadders is trying to make is not to "slay" (emotive language) them as they are schooled up for the spawn and they are sitting ducks and it's not really giving them a sporting chance.

As we can see opinions vary considerably. Good to hear everyone's opinion. Just hope everyone realises when an opinion is posted and then challenged, the challenge isn't a personal attack, it's just an opinion on the opinion :laugh:

hi mate..yeah i'm with nadders sort of. i think fish need protecting but so do we at the mo. i understand the view not to impart more restrictions on fishos. dan likes threadies and wants to protect em..i'm all for that..but i have no affiliation with threadies so why stop there? i wonder what effect catch and release has on breeding fish? i'm a snapper nut..or any reef fish really. how do you value one fish higher than another is my question. also i know killing a breeding fish will stop it from laying it's thousands of eggs..but if you caught it just before breeding season and killed it you have still stopped it from laying a thousand eggs..just earlier. so whilst i see the view of some people to have a closed season..i see protection of larger breeding fish more important (size limit). it should be for the whole year not a few months. that's just my two bobs worth. i respect all comers views on this subject..with the greens..pew..peta around you have to be careful for what you wish for..they'll turn anything to their own advantage i reckon. good debate..no rights or wrongs as i see it..cheers

[benno573]

brisbane_boy wrote:

Well I cant speak for your ideas, but if you want a total closed season give us some catch figures for "all over the river" at spawn size. I havnt found a larger concentration of breeders anywhere that the pipeline.

Im all for a simple max size of say 90cm. protect the breeders like large flathead, emd of story

as I said there is no categoric evidence to suggest the congregation is related to breeding. I suggest it is more to do with food as they are there all the time and they don't breed all the time, although I am sure the idea has certain appeal to many. Me included.

I regularly catch large threadfin at a spot at west end... Over metre is common.

[nadders]

Tiny Tin wrote:

ellicat wrote:

Tiny Tin, I agree, but I think the point/opinion nadders is trying to make is not to "slay" (emotive language) them as they are schooled up for the spawn and they are sitting ducks and it's not really giving them a sporting chance.

As we can see opinions vary considerably. Good to hear everyone's opinion. Just hope everyone realises when an opinion is posted and then challenged, the challenge isn't a personal attack, it's just an opinion on the opinion :laugh:

hi mate..yeah i'm with nadders sort of. i think fish need protecting but so do we at the mo. i understand the view not to impart more restrictions on fishos. dan likes threadies and wants to protect em..i'm all for that..but i have no affiliation with threadies so why stop there? i wonder what effect catch and release has on breeding fish? i'm a snapper nut..or any reef fish really. how do you value one fish higher than another is my question. also i know killing a breeding fish will stop it from laying it's thousands of eggs..but if you caught it just before breeding season and killed it you have still stopped it from laying a thousand eggs..just earlier. so whilst i see the view of some people to have a closed season..i see protection of larger breeding fish more important (size limit). it should be for the whole year not a few months. that's just my two bobs worth. i respect all comers views on this subject..with the greens..pew..peta around you have to be careful for what you wish for..they'll turn anything to their own advantage i reckon. good debate..no rights or wrongs as i see it..cheers

john you've said what ive been wanting to say pretty much, i would much prefer a max size limit but i wasn't sure how people would take it vs a closed season for a few months. either way for the time being nothing can be done legislation wise until the research is published.

so its still up to the individual fisho if they wanna do the right thing and release breeding size fish or not

keeping in mind it takes careful technique to release breeding size fish from deep water

[nadders]

benno573 wrote:

brisbane_boy wrote:

Well I cant speak for your ideas, but if you want a total closed season give us some catch figures for "all over the river" at spawn size. I havnt found a larger concentration of breeders anywhere that the pipeline.

Im all for a simple max size of say 90cm. protect the breeders like large flathead, emd of story

as I said there is no categoric evidence to suggest the congregation is related to breeding. I suggest it is more to do with food as they are there all the time and they don't breed all the time, although I am sure the idea has certain appeal to many. Me included.

I regularly catch large threadfin at a spot at west end... Over metre is common.

not that i want to continue the argument as all points have pretty much been said but its not very likely they are schooling hard on the bottom in 16-19m in groups of 1 big fish surrounded by 3-4 small fish in order to feed, from my experience at night time especially alot of the feeding is done shallow

also, they dont school up the way they have been since september (or i've never seen them school up like this outside of spawning season). they're at the pipe all the time, but not schooling hard on the bottom in aggregations of big fish surruonded by smaller ones all the time

[roobs]

As conservationists i think the debate is a little misplaced as neither species is even under threat of endangerment- all that is at risk is the potential for anglers to enjoy themselves and neither fish is without comparable equal ecologically. in my uneducated opinion the threadie's presence here is more due to changing weather patterns than anything as they have a southern-most range. the fish that are caught here aren't the best specimens often as well- many have red spot fungal infection which is a sign of poor immune system response, in my opinion due to habitat acclimitisation. There are plenty of environmental campaings to fight that have much greater impact on biodiversity- the mary river is about to be dammed threatening unique cod, rainbowfish and freshwater turtle species. In contrast our river is in the best health it has been in two decades. I think that all fish stocks should have restrictions on them- fish that are common today may be next century's one that got away.

[brisbane_boy]

"""the fish that are caught here aren't the best specimens often as well- many have red spot fungal infection which is a sign of poor immune system response""""

LOL

I strongly disagree.

[jeff f]

i've caught more meter plus threadfin at kookaburra park,the junction, priors pocket and 17 mile rocks than at the pipeline,i've only ever caught one sub meter fish and seen 2 others in the upper reaches of the river, most of the fish i've caught at the pipeline have been sub meter. i have seen schools of meter plus fish smashing prawns on the surface at the old cement warf durring this six month long "breeding season"

i honestly dont think any fish breeds for a full six months, i think they are probably like flathead and alot of other species that have 2 breeding periods,one major and one minor, in a year, one as it starts to warm up and one at the end of summer and they only actually spawn on the full moon or new moon

if the pipeline is the big breeding spot(and i dont believe it is) then at breeding season every thready in the river would be down there and they most deffinately aren't

[bootyinblue]

brisbane_boy wrote:

"""the fish that are caught here aren't the best specimens often as well- many have red spot fungal infection which is a sign of poor immune system response""""

LOL

I strongly disagree.

Its good to disagree, but your argument would hold far more weight if you said I disagree with this because................ xyz

[brisbane_boy]

I agree with you jeff, I think the smartest move is to protect the larger fish in the system with a size limit not close fishing areas, I to have caught large fish as recently as a week ago in any area away from the pipeline.

[benno573]

nadders wrote:

benno573 wrote:

brisbane_boy wrote:

Well I cant speak for your ideas, but if you want a total closed season give us some catch figures for "all over the river" at spawn size. I havnt found a larger concentration of breeders anywhere that the pipeline.

Im all for a simple max size of say 90cm. protect the breeders like large flathead, emd of story

as I said there is no categoric evidence to suggest the congregation is related to breeding. I suggest it is more to do with food as they are there all the time and they don't breed all the time, although I am sure the idea has certain appeal to many. Me included.

I regularly catch large threadfin at a spot at west end... Over metre is common.

not that i want to continue the argument as all points have pretty much been said but its not very likely they are schooling hard on the bottom in 16-19m in groups of 1 big fish surrounded by 3-4 small fish in order to feed, from my experience at night time especially alot of the feeding is done shallow

also, they dont school up the way they have been since september (or i've never seen them school up like this outside of spawning season). they're at the pipe all the time, but not schooling hard on the bottom in aggregations of big fish surruonded by smaller ones all the time

point taken... However, about august September is when the banana prawn run in the river starts and I can guarantee based on the feeding habits of prawns they will be congregating around the poo pipe. Threadies used to congregate in Gladstone as soon as the prawns started running which up there was July and august. It was not uncommon to see 10 or 15 fish feeding over one bank as the tide rose over it.

Your theory of the one large fish and a group of fish is possibly breeding behaviour, however, based on how threadfin feed it could be a thready surrounded by catties as they regularly stir up the bottom when feeding. In Gladstone they used to be surrounded by baby jewies and whiting continually while feeding. Not trying to deliberately disagree or anything, just basing it on my personal observations and experiences.

[brisbane_boy]

Booty, in my experience i have seen the absense of such conditions. i therefore disagree.

[roobs]

if that's the only thing that you disagree with then i'm considering it a succesful post. as i said, my opinion is uneducated but i know that fish in my aquariums get fungal infections from low water temperature and high nitrate build up.

[jeff f]

brisbane_boy wrote:

"""the fish that are caught here aren't the best specimens often as well- many have red spot fungal infection which is a sign of poor immune system response""""

LOL

I strongly disagree.

me too

the only unhealthy looking threadies i've seen are ones that have fought to the death

and are covered in red spots due to the rupture of capilliarys and i've seen that all up the qld coast

[nadders]

yeah, the red spots i don't think are fungus as jeff said.

benno, i will try and get a sounder photo of what i have been seeing next time i go out. basically what ive been taking notice of is 1 big arch (lets call it size 100 for scale) and a group of smaller arches around size 75-80. not saying thats all cm measurements but thats their relative size to the big arches. i will grab a snap next time anyway and show you what i mean, its quite interesting to see. They are sitting on most bumps and pinnacles on the bottom out at the mouth, with the floor of the pipeline area (out in the main channel near the rippled ground before the dropoff) being literally covered in these shows. it is very interesting to see at any rate (Even if it could be construed as having an old uncle merv on the buggers lol)

Its great that people are seeing big fish in the upper reaches, though i am still of the belief that the further toward the mouth you go, the larger the average size. But as was discussed in the other post, there may be more than one major spawning area and that is a great thing if there is.

all this aside, i still believe it to be a good idea to leave the breeding size fish alone. its great people are mentioning a max size limit, i was hesitant in bringing that up because i thought it may recieve even more opposition than a closed season but a max size limit achieves everything thats been stated in this thread. Once some research is finished and compiled and the condition of the stock assessed then the fun starts and we can stop the speculation. I just hope the stock is well managed until the research is completed, thats my concern

Cheers again,

Dan

[wesfish]

brisbane_boy wrote:

Well I cant speak for your ideas, but if you want a total closed season give us some catch figures for "all over the river" at spawn size. I havnt found a larger concentration of breeders anywhere that the pipeline.

Im all for a simple max size of say 90cm. protect the breeders like large flathead, emd of story

you may not have found a population like the pipeline , but have you fished the entire 60klms of river up to colleges crossing , putting in the hours to crack them in other spots on the river, i know for a fact that they are the entire stretch of tidal river and i know of a few spots with threadies at a calibre people have not landed yet ! a max of 90cm is crazy for a fish that apperently matures to female around 115cm fl , i would say 120cm overall max like barra would make more sense ! but wont you be spewing the day you cant release a big girl over 130cm that just keeps going belly up and thats the day the fisheries find you with a big girl in possession that wont release because she exhausted herself through the fight , they do not release very well as they exert so much energy in the big runs they take , if you fish heavier to end the fight quick then you are putting a big amount of pressure on the fish as well , as do said the best thing could be not to target them every week, make it a special trip once a month and keep the fisheries out of this ! if they have to put a closed season on them then it will be the entire eastern coast line, that will make alot of angry fisherman, as up north through the barra season they target threadies to leave the barra alone, imagine if they cant fish for 2 species that eat well in their systems up north, they will hate who ever created or pushed for a closed season from a system so far south! just a thought

my end to the disscussion is dont advertise known locations of threadies and keep it under your hat!

i agree with maybe a max of 120cm like barra but not a closed season

[brisbane_boy]

Wes I think you said it all at the end of your post, im pretty firm on the 90cm max size, 1m perhaps. knowing a few anglers who started catching threddys a few years ago compared to now the pipeline fishery isnt as good, the sheer numbers caught per session has dropped. If there is a better spot for big ones it hasnt been revealed yet.

[Angus]

I think at the end of the day sadly even the few people here that are converted to being conservative are just a small drop of the fishing population. Take the new Bush & Beach mag threafin article actually naming the pipleline as a good spot to target them right now. Whatever the critics say, the anglers here are a small percentage compared to that reader base.

Aside from that as usual this argument has drawn in like a dozen people. Nothing changes.

Angus

[Angus]

In saying the above though, thanks for keeping this fairly civilised.

Sorry to break it to you all but we will never all agree (on some things).

But facts are opinions are welcomed.

I did have to delete only three posts by the same idiot in this thread who didnt realise that outburts like his actually detract from him whole argument.

Cheers.

Angus

[bigblackbass]

I've never actually caught a threadie meself, and i'd like to catch one sooner or later. So i think in waters south of a certain point ( where they become a less frqeunt species) there maybe should be a closed season and a size limit of 75cm max, one per day

but thats just my 2 cents worth.

[thousandyards]

for goodness sake....would angus or someone finally lock this thread(ie) so we can all get on with our lives??

less talk.....more fishing.....but not at the pipeline.....and only with small dead goldfish or month old servo prawns for bait......put your jackals and robzams and tn60s and TT switchblades and live baits away......enough of that rubbish.......

[ellicat]

Angus wrote:

In saying the above though, thanks for keeping this fairly civilised.

Sorry to break it to you all but we will never all agree (on some things).

But facts are opinions are welcomed.

I did have to delete only three posts by the same idiot in this thread who didnt realise that outburts like his actually detract from his whole argument.

Cheers.

Angus

I just quickly checked how many of my posts you deleted :laugh: :laugh:

bbb, On what basis did you come up with your opinion on size and season restrictions ?

1000yards, I reckon leave it open. I think the last thread was locked prematurely and quite a few had more to say. Better to let it out than let it fester. Like the TV - you don't have to tune into this thread if you've had enough lol.

I reckon a few peoples views have been further clarified by the thread which is a good thing.

[Cowfish13]

thousandyards wrote:

for goodness sake....would angus or someone finally lock this thread(ie) so we can all get on with our lives??

less talk.....more fishing.....but not at the pipeline.....and only with small dead goldfish or month old servo prawns for bait......put your jackals and robzams and tn60s and TT switchblades and live baits away......enough of that rubbish.......

Why? It's been civilised, opinion based arguments. It's been a pretty decent thread. I see no reason to lock it.

For the people who think that it is pointless trying to educate/convert/talk to only a (relatively) small forum about Threadfin (which as Nadders has stated isn't true anyway), the biggest journey starts with the first steps. He had to start somewhere, and by gaining some knowledge of peoples reactions to certain suggestions, he can make a more educated argument to the higher ups for both the benifit of Threadfin, and those that want to catch them.

[thousandyards]

see.....this is the negative effect of this thread.....somewhere in amongst reading all these posts people lose their sense of humour......

i thought the 'small dead goldfish' line might have given away that my tongue was planted firmly in my cheek......can't say i didn't try....... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[shortie]

I'm happy to conserve a great fishery for the enjoyment of my son in the future. I totally agree with what Nadders has to say. His arguments are well constructed, well thought out and articulate. What i dont however like is having an opinion shoved down my throat and being preached at. Everyone has an opinion (They are entitled to it) but when the opinion isnt reciprocated by others stop the preaching.

And untill its law i have no problem with people keeping a fish or many fish for that matter for a feed even if it differs from my beliefs. If its not currently illegal leave people alone to practise what they believe in.

This thread certainly has been very interesting. Most people seem to of been able to form an opinion, that is somewhat logical and coherant for bothes sided of the debate.

This is what the site should be about. Intelligent informed conversation that stimulates the mnids of others into thinking about someone or something other than themselves.

[brisbane_boy]

The same could be said for big flathead shortie

brownie refused to put people holding on on his show and continually preached about releasing the breeders.

The state of things is a we now have a law in qld and many people agree with it.

I followed most of what you said but you lost me with the last line,

if you post things on a forum you will invite opinions, I dont see anyone harassing anyone here for catching a fish.

[rayke1938]

Only one thing has been missed so far in this informanative thread. That is the recommended correct method to quickly return a thready to deep water so its air bladder will deflate. I use a 8/0 barbless hook half a brick on venetian blind cord which is similar to what we use for bass out of 90 odd feet but there we only need a half pound snapper lead which doesnt appear to be heavy enough for a threadfin.What I dont know is whether you should swim the fish ( I do) before sending it down to the deep or send it straight down.

Perhaps some of the more experienced anglers could post a photo and give any other tips.

Origionaly I was not even aware of threadies suffering barotrauma as most other fish suffering this have their guts pokeing out of their mouths.Maybe a detailed description of the symptons would be in order.

Is there a spot that you can pierce with a hollow needle without damaging the fish?

Cheers

Ray

[ellicat]

I was surprised when I heard barotrauma mentioned too Ray. At only ~17 metres it's not something the other fish suffer from. Not too sure on whether I'd want one of my organs pierced if I lived in the Brissy River though. :pinch: The brick sounds like the best method, with a slowed descent. Just speculating though.

[nadders]

hi shortie, i don't think i've preached at all, theres a difference between debating points and preaching buddy

As for release,

its due to the huge swim bladder compared to other fish, i guess its not traditional barotrauma but has similar effects i.e pressure on organs etc. most people seem to agree that release weight is the best option (myself included)

i also try and fight them shallow, even at the dreaded pipeline, its possible...just have to think outside the square

[rayke1938]

Nadders Quick return or try to revive a bit I have only done around 3 but the last one reckon I swam for a long time before return and Elicats question - quick drop ( I do ) or slow. I hadnt thought of that but slow seems to make sense.

Do they recover themselves as lung fish do. A lungie can swim belly up for around half an hour and then roll over and dive and swim away just when you think its karked it.The inflated swim bladder on the thready does not seem to impede their ability to move water past their gills which I have observed in reefies when the bladder seems to fill their throat.

Maybe someone could ask brad to give an opinion.

"i don't think i've preached at all, theres a difference between debating points and preaching buddy" I agree just healthy debate and some different points of view.

Amen

Ray

[Gad]

ellicat wrote:

I was surprised when I heard barotrauma mentioned too Ray.

Hi guys,congrats to(mostly) all for keeping this topic interesting and keeping on track with the discussion.

Well done shortie,no one wants to hang you,(yet) :laugh:

WOULD somone let me know where(page and poster)barotrauma came in on the discussion,I thought I was following the postings well but can not see where this came into the discussion

cheers Gad

[ellicat]

Gad wrote:

ellicat wrote:

I was surprised when I heard barotrauma mentioned too Ray.

Hi guys,congrats to(mostly) all for keeping this topic interesting and keeping on track with the discussion.

Well done shortie,no one wants to hang you,(yet) :laugh:

WOULD somone let me know where(page and poster)barotrauma came in on the discussion,I thought I was following the postings well but can not see where this came into the discussion

cheers Gad

Nadders has mentioned it in some his reports and in the thread last week on the topic. Will post a link later.

[rayke1938]

Gad I brought it up in post number 228908 on page 6. The matter of inflated swim bladders has been mentioned in another thread around a month ago ( I think)but there has never been any discussion on how to recognise this or how to deal with it so I thought this thread was the appropiate place.Apparently the symptoms are inflated guts but you will have to have seen a normal fish to compare, swollen anus ( I thought this was just from the fight or normal for a threadie)and inability to dive when released.

Waiting for nadders or brisbane boy to comment they seem to be the experts on releasing as I have only ever released around 3 fish, 2 of them being weighted.

Cheers

Ray

[Tiny Tin]

rayke1938 wrote:

Only one thing has been missed so far in this informanative thread. That is the recommended correct method to quickly return a thready to deep water so its air bladder will deflate. I use a 8/0 barbless hook half a brick on venetian blind cord which is similar to what we use for bass out of 90 odd feet but there we only need a half pound snapper lead which doesnt appear to be heavy enough for a threadfin.What I dont know is whether you should swim the fish ( I do) before sending it down to the deep or send it straight down.

Perhaps some of the more experienced anglers could post a photo and give any other tips.

Origionaly I was not even aware of threadies suffering barotrauma as most other fish suffering this have their guts pokeing out of their mouths.Maybe a detailed description of the symptons would be in order.

Is there a spot that you can pierce with a hollow needle without damaging the fish?

Cheers

Ray

hi ray.. i read an article in the bnb (think) which was about releasing snapper with inflated air bladders. the short of it was most of them die. even when they are let back down on a weighted hook to a decent depth so the water pressure forces the bladder back to size. would it be the same for threadies?

[nadders]

Hi hi,

As for swimming vs dropping and slow vs fast, i don't really know if slow vs fast makes a difference on the way down. it makes a difference on the way up for sure, as in if the fish swims slowly from 16m to 0m the bladder wont be inflated as it has time to adjust, but on the way down i honestly have no idea.

swimming vs dropping, depends on length of fight. I try manhandle a bit and get them boatside pretty quickly, and do all releasing while they are in the water (supported by a net while in the water) and they seem to swim away much better than if they're removed from the water for de-hooking. if the fight is long and drawn out swimming may be neccesary and ive had to swim them a few times. When i have a thready with inflated swim bladder but otherwise in good condition they try to kick away and come back up as you said, if they arent kicking about or acting up at all i'd recommend swimming then when they do try to kick around drop em down, seems to be the best way in my opinion. i dont think the inflated bladder causes them many major problems in the short term (someone may like to correct me i may be wrong) so i dont think its terrible to swim them while theyre floating then drop them down when they've had a gut full of ya

to be honest though the only threadies ive had that were very tired and unable to kick were the first handful i caught, before i was game enough to give em some stick. i use pretty heavy gear and put some hurt on them and they come up angry most of the time