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traveston dam finished


roobs

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I'm of the opinion that most people who enjoy fishing and the outdoors have a bit of an environmental streak, purely because they care about the fishing conditions they experience. does anyone have any opinion on the traveston dam rejection? i'm really happy about it- i think that it was a great decision to knock back the new dam based on a) endangered species being present and B) a lack of rainfall in the area, meaning the dam would be ineffective. i'd be interested to hear what others think but would appreciate it being kept non-political if possible...

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I was for the dam, it would have made a great fishery.

I now hope that they do something useful with the land instead of letting it go back to being cow paddocks. It would make a great national park, they could actually turn it in to what the NIMBY's claimed it to be, a pristine wilderness! instead of the degraded cow paddock it currently is.

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a friend of ours just left here to go home someplace at the bottom of traveston shes rather happy to say the least as she wouldve lost her dream home its not much and dry as a bastard but she loves it.

shes just spen an hour telling us how dry it is there her goats have stripped the house bare any shrub or leaf has been gobbled the grass that remains is crunching underfoot and she has to buy water to keep animals and humans waterd .

she actually has a good river running through the rear of her proppety swimmable at times apparently she hasnt seen it run in a year.

so too me id have to say its a pretty daft idea to put a dam there.

but i do like ferals idea of national park with the propperties that were bought at least that would achieve a good end

maybe put a solar / wind power station in to power the desalinators and hell turn those into fads .

jason

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I believe it was the wrong decision baised on soley on the protection of mary river cod,lung fish and snapping turtles.When they started the build the weir on the burnett river in bundaberg the greenies come to the same conclusion that it would effect the lung fish.The result is that in fact the lung fish are thriving up in the top reaches of the river as I have seen first hand.I have and former work mate who's parents owned a property on the burnett river and just by walking to the river bank you can see lung fish up to 5/6 feet in length in large numbers.Just a side note where was mr potato head when all the lung fish were washed over the pine river dam wall the only people that helped were local's and not a pollie in sight.

As a person that enjoy's the great outdoors and fishing I believe that building the traveston dam may have helped bring the plight of the mary river cod.I think restocking them in the Dam would do for the mary cod what it has done for the murray cod.

As for a lack of rainfall if the dam had been built if would have been a long way to being full with the rain we had in may early this year.

For the idea of desal plates how are we going to keep these thing's running when country's like the AAE which have a damn sight more money and can't keep them running and what are we to do with the salt from these plants, pump it it to moreton bay I don't think so. and as to water restrictions I don't believe that they should go below level 4 ever again.

What are we going to do with the 2000 people that move to seq each week,where are we going to get the water for them. With every new house built it should be mandatory that a 5000 gallon tank be installed. In Bundaberg the tanks are installed in the ground under the house in new suburbs.

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as far as lack of rain fall in the area goes,its like everywhere,some years you get more some years you get less.During the 80`s and 90`s one set of my ex,ex in laws lived at Travestone and ran a lawn mowing franhcise that covered noosa and hinterland,and up to Gympie.from spring till autumn every 2nd year their main problem was the amount of rainfall,causing grass to grow rapidly with the heat and days not being able to go out and cut yards.

late last year/early this year with the weather pattern we had down here,they also got their fair share the river and creeks up there were flooding too

Lack of rain crap..its all a cycle-either a short cycle or a long cycle

cheers Gad

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I'm stoked it got knocked back. My family grew up on the Thompson River in Victoria, now the Thompson Dam. I've seen first hand how a dam can stuff a river system entirely.

There's some talk going around that by simply (and very inexpensively) raising the level of existing dams just a few metres it will significantly increase (ie. double!) the volume of the dams. Here's hoping the idiot pollies get wind of this and look hard into it.

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where desalination plants and power generation is concerned,and the advancement of technology over the past few decades and looking at the billion of dollars wasted by change of governments and change of major policies(think of the 100 million`s from the Whitlam through Fraser times,Collins class submarines etc etc)why does a nation(island)surrounded by water (tidal movement,2highs,2lows roughly per 24 hrs),not have a sea based hydro electric power source.

Cost has always been said to be the deterent factor,

well the way our utilities are being sold off,and the user pays 300%+ more, for the brillant Krudd solution,(for our.05% of world emissions,so said) for climate, change water and electricity will be luxury items enjoyed by a minority in the future.

Gad

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i guess to the die-hard enthusiast there can never be too many impoundments but borumba is already on a tributary of the mary so i can't imagine it would be any different in terms of what it had to offer as a fishery, however i'm sure i'm not the expert that some of you are on the matter. As far as lungfish are concerned biologists know that disuptions to their environment can put them off breeding for extended periods. I agree with never dropping the water restrictions below level 4 and also think that offshore water-harvesting platforms would have all the fad benefits of oil rigs without the sea-bed disruption and emissions consequences. The land owned in the mary valley should definitely not be turned back into private farmland now that it belongs to the state- national parks are a great idea, also renewable energy such as solar farms and wind farms could be constructed. Damming definitely changes rivers- with reduced flow would tidal influence mean that more areas of the river would be brackish or salt? Saving the environment will definitely cost us as consumers. the benefits are clean air and water and as a result more fish to catch!

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wind farms are a bit of a bollocks solution, they are an eyesore, need constant strong winds, maintenance, create noise, disturb wildlife, etc. in Tassie they even put cows off their usual milk supply, that caused a farmer to lose income, some one who works hard for their coin.

i'd much rather walk a cow paddock along a river than a dam. the only things i have pulled out of north pine in three trips are an opera house pot, my camera and my phone. oh and myself after going nuts deep in mud.

the "science" behind the travesty dam put the moreton bay marine park planners to shame. they used the wrong catchment area figures, based it on a daily water consumption of at least 200L p/p per day when we are under 140 i think, their save the turtle and fish plans they finally admitted were pretty average and still hadn't been thought through. if i handed in an assignment with the level of detail and planning they put in, i would expect to fail and they have.

expect rainfall to remain lower than usual. global dimming is real and it is here. it causes droughts, lowers temperatures, lowers evaporation (hence less rain). it was on the abc several years back and clearly showed a world wide pattern. basically a heap of people, usually scientists, measure morning and night, how much water is evaporated from a standard size man made pond/pool and refill it. the level in the last fifty years has dropped significantly and consistently when averaged world wide.

lets set up a grey water system, then at least we aren't flushing millions of litres daily of very clean drinking water, down the toilet. sorry for the pun.

i think this is the perfect time to make our system more efficient, rather than just taking the soft option of throwing more water at the problem.

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faulked wrote:

a friend of ours just left here to go home someplace at the bottom of traveston shes rather happy to say the least as she wouldve lost her dream home its not much and dry as a bastard but she loves it.

Thats the bitch with infrastructure projects. But your friend loosing there place would have been no different from someone who has lost theirs for the tunnel being built at Wooloowin, or any other bit of public infrastructure, like people whom live near the proposed desalination plants who will know go through exactly the same process.

For those who believed the NIMBY's and think the Mary is a wild river -

Weirs and dams on the Mary river and its tributaries

Borumba Dam

Imbil Weir

Baroon Pocket Dam

Kadanga creek weir

Six Mile Creek Dam (Lake Macdonald)

Cedar Pocket Dam

Goomeri Weir

Tallegalla Weir

Tedington Weir

Tinana Barage

Mary River Barage

Still Proposed

Amamoor Creek Dam Site

Coles Crossing Weir site

Moy Pocket Weir

Personally as mentioned I reckon turning the land in to a national park would be the best option. The biggest risk to the Mary River Cod is now of course that the proposed fresh water fish breeding centre is going to be at risk, I cant see Anna bothering to spend 35million on it now. I dont know if they decommissioned the centre at lake Macdonald yet, hopefully not, as it was the only place breeding them.

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Feral wrote:

faulked wrote:
a friend of ours just left here to go home someplace at the bottom of traveston shes rather happy to say the least as she wouldve lost her dream home its not much and dry as a bastard but she loves it.

Thats the **** with infrastructure projects. But your friend loosing there place would have been no different from someone who has lost theirs for the tunnel being built at Wooloowin, or any other bit of public infrastructure, like people whom live near the proposed desalination plants who will know go through exactly the same process.

i know what you mean feral but can you imagine buying a house an hour from sealed roads to find out some plonker wants to put a dam there to give water to a city you ran away from when you still have no water yourself as it was she wouldve actually kept her property but it would be worthless as the accsess rd would have been swiming

i do how ever feel for anyone who loses their 'castle' i had the councill turn up and tell me the 2 fruit trees id planted on the footpath were illegal and i couldnt plant them there so i had to pull them up to say i was pissed is an understatement .

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The resumption rules in Australia stink big time - no doubrt about it. I'd like them to adopt the canadian (I think, been a while since I studied town planning) model. They pay real market value for any land resumed,pay good compensation if you property value is affected. Then they put a "lean" on properties that the infrastructure actually increases the value of. So if the work improve the value of your property, when you sell it, the government gets the profit due to the improvement. Works very well, as generally much more properties have improved value from infrastructure than those that lose value. IE if you house if 50m from a new freeway the value goes down, if your 500m away, you property value goes up because now it is only 10 minutes to the city instead of 30.

Having said that your friend could have made a bob or two renting out her "fishing camp" to us! ;)

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in my opinion the few it would have affected to build the dam keeps 2 to 3 million people with water security annas not wrong that we are the fastest growing area in australia and we need to have enough water for the future . this dam would have tied in with the rest of the water grid now it's going to be costly for an alternative and just wait for those arguments to start

mark

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Work takes me up that way a bit, and a govt employee was saying the other day( don't know how true it is), that if they built a new higher wall on Yabba Creek, just downstream from the campground, (Borumba) the Dam would be 75m deep, and more importantly, would overflow into the Stanley and down to Somerset. It would be a massive toga fishery :woohoo:

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Water is more Precious than GOLD.

we cant live without it.

weather patterns are more and more unpredictable.

we have a growing population and not enough water to cope. Any strategies for the future need to be acted on now.

lets see who is smiling when they have saved a few turles and are having to pay $1000 a litre for Water.

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its true we need water .

its the most precious thing.

2 water supplies not a bad idea .

i for drinking,washing dishes etc.

1 for washing ,toilet etc.

lot of work to set that up.

we are a going population true and we need water sorted now .

the way they buy the land sucks i guess .know a bloke he house got taken for Ipswich road upgrade.took a year of fighting before the came up with the right offer for him to be happy.

i don't know about a national park ,but a park where camping etc is allowed would be nice.

the animals they adapt over time .if a dam was build .if i come down to save the animals or save me cause i need water ,well the animals lose.

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shortie wrote:

....

weather patterns are more and more unpredictable.

.....

Rubbish :laugh: The opposite is true.

Beware of the alarmists ! :laugh: :laugh:

It's settled now so the topic is just a talking point. It was good to see that a decision was able to be defeated by a solid voice. Now the rec fishos just need the same sort of solid voice.

On the humorous side, about 18 months ago I saw one of these signs posted at an intersection up the coast. Some smart wit had printed "Water" in the appropriate place underneath. :laugh: NoDam_500x500_t325.jpg

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the thing that gets to me is all the emphasis recently placed on how we are a 'growing population' and how to accomodate such population growth etc

nobody seems to want to think about controlling the actual population growth, its all about 'accomodating it' which to me is saying 'population growth is a good thing'. i'm of the opinion that overpopulation is the worst thing that we can do for ourselves and the planet

yet people still get paid to have more kids round 'ere lol :dry:

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lol yeah, but if more people are born than die we have increase, which is one reason there are so many imports, because alot of countries in the world reproduce way too much

australias not chronically overpopulated yet imo (compared to other places in the world anyway) but my fear is that if theres no vision for the future to prevent it happening, whats to stop it later down the track

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true we are not overpopulated yet .

but it will happen if they keep importing people,and just letting anyone in.

yet i know people who want to come here and they won't let them in ,and they would bring good skills to the country and not dole buggers .

the people they tend to let in come from country's that breed like there is no tomorrow .

just cause the rest of the world is over populated and fucked ,that no reason we should fallow trend.

i'll finish this when i get home .i got to go fishing ,i need a fix.

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nadders wrote:

the thing that gets to me is all the emphasis recently placed on how we are a 'growing population' and how to accomodate such population growth etc

nobody seems to want to think about controlling the actual population growth, its all about 'accomodating it' which to me is saying 'population growth is a good thing'. i'm of the opinion that overpopulation is the worst thing that we can do for ourselves and the planet

yet people still get paid to have more kids round 'ere lol :dry:

Population Growth is good.. The have had concerns for years that australia has an aging and not growing population. We need it for economic Growth.

thats why wars are good, natural selection. Keeps population under control. But unfortunatelly there are 2 many bleeding hearts in this world that what to save everything.

Lets not fight lets not have wars why is there so much violence in the world. Lets get technology lets save people from dying with medicine and technology. But lets not overpopulate the world. Cmon people like causes but dont think big picture about their beliefs and how their stance on 1 topic effects their stance on another.

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australia does have a growing population though, the problem of overpopulation is far bigger than australia its a global issue, and unfortunately requires a lot more cooperation and common sense than the globe appears capable of lol.

i guess i am an ultimate pessimist when it comes to our future as a species

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australia's baby bonus population are in poor areas. poor money/dole, poor education, poor family environment. not always, but rich people don't think lets have more kids cos krudd is giving us a days wages. courier mail printed stats that matched the three fastest growing suburbs with the highest rate of baby bonus claimants earlier this year.

these "imports" is like pissing in the brisbane river and thinking the water level rose.

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nadders wrote:

lol yeah, but if more people are born than die we have increase,......, because alot of countries in the world reproduce way too much

Simple political solution,

after Captain Bligh sells of all our assets,she becomes world population control minister,then in all overpopulated countries, she bans all heterosexual activities makes homosexuality compulsory.

Results...rapid population declines...more water for everyone.

I am soo happy to live in an underpopulated country :laugh:

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Gad wrote:

nadders wrote:
lol yeah, but if more people are born than die we have increase,......, because alot of countries in the world reproduce way too much

Simple political solution,

after Captain Bligh sells of all our assets,she becomes world population control minister,then in all overpopulated countries, she bans all heterosexual activities makes homosexuality compulsory.

Results...rapid population declines...more water for everyone.

I am soo happy to live in an underpopulated country :laugh:

live in a country thats gay :unsure:

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tugger wrote:

Gad wrote:
nadders wrote:
lol yeah, but if more people are born than die we have increase,......, because alot of countries in the world reproduce way too much

Simple political solution,

after Captain Bligh sells of all our assets,she becomes world population control minister,then in all overpopulated countries, she bans all heterosexual activities makes homosexuality compulsory.

Results...rapid population declines...more water for everyone.

I am soo happy to live in an underpopulated country :laugh:

live in a country thats gay :unsure:

tugger we are an under populated country so those bans would not apply to us. :laugh: ;)

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Wars are actually terrible for natural selection. if you are infirmed in any way you don't get sent to war and those heroes who sacrifice their lives for their fellow man are taking themselves out of the gene pool. I find it really hard to understand the mentality of people who think that it's acceptable to scour the earth like a disease, removing other species to make room for their own excessive procreation. humans are like rabbits overrunning the earth, destroying the existing environment. Ecology isn't as simple as people think- you can't remove one or two species without having a detrimental effect on the whole shebang. this has been proven time and time again- a prime example is the wolves of yellowstone park. when all the wolves went the park started to die and it has only recovered with the re-introduction of the apex predator. Every time we chip away at the earth and take one more species to extinction we lose the chance to prove our humanity. if you want a concrete jungle for a world then sit back and do nothing- it'll happen faster than you think.

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roobs wrote:

Wars are actually terrible for natural selection. if you are infirmed in any way you don't get sent to war and those heroes who sacrifice their lives for their fellow man are taking themselves out of the gene pool. I find it really hard to understand the mentality of people who think that it's acceptable to scour the earth like a disease, removing other species to make room for their own excessive procreation. humans are like rabbits overrunning the earth, destroying the existing environment. Ecology isn't as simple as people think- you can't remove one or two species without having a detrimental effect on the whole shebang. this has been proven time and time again- a prime example is the wolves of yellowstone park. when all the wolves went the park started to die and it has only recovered with the re-introduction of the apex predator. Every time we chip away at the earth and take one more species to extinction we lose the chance to prove our humanity. if you want a concrete jungle for a world then sit back and do nothing- it'll happen faster than you think.

i agree 100percent

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Nadders, when I was a young fella, at school we were all taught that population growth was a problem and those pesky 3rd world countries were breeding to many people and it was going to be a world wide problem. China was applauded for its one child policy, even though no one else had the courage to implement it. So it was on the agenda, everyone realised it was a problem, they were even making policy's and doing things about it.

Then along came Bob Hawke, Paul Keating, and later John Howard and Peter Costello, who finally twigged that our slowed population growth meant that we had an aging population, and shock horror, as they had not saved a brass razoo, someone was going to have to pay for all these pensions! Initially it was national compulsory superannuation, the initial flurry of encouragement for people to move away from pensions to make their own savings. But they quickly realised that was not enough.

So enter baby bonus's, tax cuts aimed at family units, generous maternity leave entitlements, basically anything they could think of to wencourage us to breed a younger generation of tax payers to pay the bill for the baby boomers as they enter retirement. They even upped to retirement age and age you could get your super to give them a few more years of breeding to cover the gap!

So believe me they know about it, they even used to be trying to do something about it, then they realised it was going to cost huge amounts of money, so it went out the window in about 3 seconds flat!

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roobs wrote:

Wars are actually terrible for natural selection.

The above statement I agree with,

politicians and rabid conscientious objectors never go so therefore it becomes a selective culling excercise.

But seriously,you talk of the apex predator keeping a balance,that is fine if nature had its way,but when man intrudes,and he always will,you end up with a situation, like for example the spreading of the northern saltwater crocodile,once virtually shot out,now overprotected,this species is now moving further and further south,but I`m sure

global warming is the only factor at play here.

So keeping a balance of nature as such went out the door when Adam slaughted the furry little animals for him and Eve to have clothes.Sad but true.

roobs,not a personal attack,just fact

cheers Gad

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lol..so i wonder what the next panic move will be when we breed too many people, and what the worldwide response will be when things get stretched to the limit more than they are.. i guess its a very hard problem to deal with and would require huge economic changes. i cant profess to know what the solution is, but surely it cant involve simply accepting population growth and not at least thinking about a future solution (maybe they are? who knows)

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I've read that Napoleon changed the french race, he selected all the best, healthiest, tallest men to go to his wars, makes for interesting reading,most of them died! Few of his soldiers were less than 6 foot tall now the french are a reputed to be a much smaller race as napoleon took out all the tall breeding stock.

I'm seen similar research hypothesis that the fall of the British Empire was due to the Boer and first world wars, but not because of economic changes or world changes as such, but in those days the English gentry (businessmen) were also the officers, and actually fought and died with the troops. (It wasn't until later they removed the officer from the front and put them in to HQ's) Basically all the trench warfare and massed infantry attacks lead to nearly the whole upper class generation of young men dying or being maimed. Hence they took away all the future captains of industry and they were left with no one capable of running the empire.

All very interesting stuff when you dig down in to it!

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just an add on to Ferals comments re Napoleon, Boer and 1stWW and how that changed ways, one year when I was at high school in the 60`s, a ww2 vet came to give a talk on the Galipoli landings,he commented that since the 2 world wars the newer generations attitudes and lack of respect for their fellow humans had declined because so many fathers and husbands had been killed,that many households around the world were left without a male mentor.

I wonder what the reasoning now is for the lacking of the modern generations,it can`t all be from binge drinking

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