Live baiting, let it run or strike early?

[thriller]

Ok so here is my question, (Generally Brisbane River fishing btw!)

I have been wondering for a while now as I have heard mixed reports.

So fishing with a Live or stink bait, you get a hit and line is taking its first scream off the spool,

Do you:

A- engage the drag and let the hook set it self? (circle hook)

B- let it go and go and wait for the second big run then A or C?

C- Engage the drag (bait runner) and strike (live bait hook etc)

I am asking because I seem to be only getting the first run then the bait is gone.

(Live prawn/live or dead Herring under dorsal hooked)

I would love to hear you ideas on this situation!

Thanks... MJ

[outfitter]

I’m going with C; I don’t think you should give it a second chance.

Turn it's head and bring it home

[fishing_hardcore]

If it a bream they will be harder to hook with a large bait, they tend to grab the bait and run with it, so try a smaller rig or bait.

Jew fishing I am told, you let the fish run with it, mind you this would be a big run over 20 meters (over 50 for a big one) if it was a jew.

The fish (Jew fish only) then drops the bait and all this time you wait, then the fish will pick up the bait for a second run, that is when you set the hook.

I have never done this and I am unsure of when and where it applys.

You see I recently read two articles on jew fishing in two seperate magazines, One was about live baiting jew around drop offs in daytime and the other was live baiting jew in the Hawksberry river.

Neither article mentioned the "first run" technique, and some large Jew where landed, so either the magazines are poorly written or the first run technique does not always apply.

cheers

Dan

[nadders]

when i livebaited for jew and threadies i went by the following rule, count to 4 and if its still running solid then strike

if the initial run is slow and unenthusiastic give it some time, if the first run is a screamer and is still going for a 4 count hit it is my advice

[Davo_Dinkum]

i have had a lot of 25 cm bream take a pilly on a 4/0 hook .

big hook big bait small fish .

bream peck peck peck .

if using prawns and a smaller hook i strike on no3 peck .but that 3 good strong pecks .

on a big bait i let the play and swallow it a bit just feel the weight on and what there doing then strike.

jews ,sharks and threadys i have been told to let them run a bit then set the hooks .

but as nadders said if its a slow run and there just tasting /playing with it,give it time .

my give it time is :just feel the line light weight and wait for them to gobble it up.

jew i have got so far just smashed the bait ,pretty much a instant hookup and bring them in.

sharks i have got where under the meter and pretty much just smashed the bait too.

threadfin and bigger sharks and jew i am still to catch .

so it goes back to what i have been told .

[jakhunta]

Use a rod holder set and forget until the drag is peeling off give it a few seconds and the fish usually hooks itself . All the threaddies we have caught have hook themselves deep in the throat which isnt ideal for release as I dont remove the hook as I'm worried about overbleeding them. Just hope the ones we have released lose the hook eventually after a week or so.

[Keechie]

rod holder, large cirlce hook and drag already set, hear the drag scream pick it up and start fighting the fish. Has been working rather well for me lately.

[thriller]

Now I have to get out there and apply these new ideas!

cheers.

[51MPL]

i really like that 4 second idea.. i take each run differently - if something is slowly taking it i just let it run for a bit / pickup speed or stop wateva and just wait it out (too many times i've tried to strike early and lost a fish)..

now i wait to see if the fish will hook itself and load the rod itself or once it starts to pickup a bit of speed i try to set the hooks

[tobie10]

Let us know how you go thriller..

Had similar issues the last time I went out. I was thinking of doing what Keechie recommended and tightening up the drag a bit since I'm using circle hooks.

[51MPL]

tightening after they start to run? or so that it takes harder pull to get line out? i thought the idea was to have light drag first so you can hear when the fish run + there isnt any resistance and the fish think the food is ok, swallows it a bit which makes setting hook easier then i up the drag a bit strike and fight?

[Feral]

I'm usually half asleep day dreaming when I get hit using livies. By the time I wake up, think "oh crap", get moving, the fish has usually hooked itself and I just wind it in

So I suppose one could say I am using Nadders method although I'm that slow these days its probably more like an "8 count"

[Brian D]

Each catch and fish is different but whatever you do use a big enough hook to give it something to hook up on. I have been quilty many times of using too smaller hook and when I strike I puul the live dead bait out of the guts. Idiot idiot idiot you can hear me say.

[tugger]

i use circle hooks and set the drag to what you fight them at and wait for the rod to load up never strike with circles just lean back slowly on the rod

[Travis]

Ive been told to let em run (baitrunner) and when she reeally starts to scream hit it..... starting to think this is only good for bullies tho...

[tobie10]

51MPL wrote:

tightening after they start to run? or so that it takes harder pull to get line out? i thought the idea was to have light drag first so you can hear when the fish run + there isnt any resistance and the fish think the food is ok, swallows it a bit which makes setting hook easier then i up the drag a bit strike and fight?

What tugger says...using circle hooks so get 'em to hook themselves with the tension.

juls

[ryanyoung]

I use circle hooks, usually from 1/0 to 4/0, depending on bait size. I never strike, as circle hooks will do the job for me. The drag is on light! As nadders said, after sufficient time (4 sec sounds good), start fighting the fish without a violent strike!

Recently I have been getting onto runs, however failing to hook. I think this is mainly due to the fact that the baits I am using sometimes require a couple of hooks (one near the tail and one at the dorsal), however I haven't tried this technique due to lack of knowledge!

So in summary........I don't strike! Ha ha, this is just my method, and is based around the little experience I have !

Ryan.

[blairv]

Here is my method:

1. Put hook through Dorsel fin - everything around dorsel fin get biten off

2. Lip hook livies - Tail and/or everything up to the gills gets biten off

3. Tail hook livies - head and everything north of the tail gets bitten off

4. Snood Hook through lip and tail - bait not touched!

It can be frustrating sometimes though I would say the times i have had success has been on circle hooks and the fish have hooked themselves.

Funnily enough was fishing at Bulimba the other night and after a real short run of the drag pulled up a fairly big Herring (Lip hooked) and it was the cleanest single bite I had ever seen !!!

Then had a Mullet go off - line bending like crazy, drag going out counted to 6 tightened the drag and Boing!!! the critter was gone and the mullet (now dead) came up without a mark on him.

You win some you lose some I guess :S

[Eug]

i had exactly the same situation as blairv described in his last post. mullet as well, had a run and went to strike and nothing. mullet came back dead with not a mark on it. what fish does that?

[fishing_hardcore]

Eug wrote:

i had exactly the same situation as blairv described in his last post. mullet as well, had a run and went to strike and nothing. mullet came back dead with not a mark on it. what fish does that?

Catfish do it....

Also what I said about Jew still has some relevance, they are well known to 'fumble' the bait, so it could be a jew (if they are around).

Dan

[brisbane_boy]

There is also a lot of floating debri that moves with the tide

[Whiskers]

Is there a way to keep the herring alive for longer with the hook location?

There just piss weak, A cold stare seems to kill em

Cam.

[thriller]

I love hearing all of your ideas!

I went for a first run strike method last night.. (4 seconds or pulling hard and fast)

5/0 mustard hoodlum hooks,

I managed to hook up nearly every single time

Unfortunatly I hooked 5 big Rays on Live Herring, 2 rather large Catfish on Live prawns and, Luckily an 85cm Threadfin (Very happy!) :woohoo: (on a live Herring).

I am going to try the circle hook method next time!

(1 threadfin from about 10 trips btw).

[fishing_hardcore]

Whiskers wrote:

Is there a way to keep the herring alive for longer with the hook location?

There just piss weak, A cold stare seems to kill em

Cam.

water aeration may help, but herring stress out easily, so keep them in a large tub and by themselves or they die of stress, keep em cool and covered, water temp also stuffs em

quick.

when you hook them, do not hit their spine, hook below it ( or above even) this is better so as not to kill them.

Use a narrow gauge hook (or smaller size), I find big chunky gauge hooks are strong but have the disadvantage of being a little rough on the live baits.

cheers

[tobie10]

good job! forums are great for these sort of pointers eh? Take out some of the guesswork.

cheers, juls

[51MPL]

yeah good to hear everyone's ideas and see which works.. i really love it when the drag goes off + the road loads up and the fish has hooked itself though - takes the guess work out of it all haha! .. sometimes i get runs where the fish is just taking the bait around (or floatin debris) and i just try to fight the temptation to strike and wait to see if it starts to run faster.. sometimes i get restless and try to strike which doesnt always work so i'll keep trying

[Feral]

As its getting warmer, drop a 2litre frozen milk container (of water!) in to your livie bucket.

I've been experimenting with Bridling livies as well, but have not got it sussed yet. Hook keeps slipping down so the cable tie is at the barb.

http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/video/how-to-bridle-rig-live-fish-bait-with-cable-ties-for-fishing-265754/view/

[nadders]

best way to hook a herring longevity wise is use a thinner guage hook if possible i.e gama octopus or somesuch instead of thick guage 'livebait' hooks and put the hook infront of the eyes, through the socket. try not to actually pin the eyes but slip it infront

[Gad]

Feral wrote:

As its getting warmer, drop a 2litre frozen milk container (of water!) in to your livie bucket.

I've been experimenting with Bridling livies as well, but have not got it sussed yet. Hook keeps slipping down so the cable tie is at the barb.

http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/video/how-to-bridle-rig-live-fish-bait-with-cable-ties-for-fishing-265754/view/

Try using small rubber bands.Using a large needle thread one end of cotton(piece of cotton about 12"long) through the needles eye,then thread other end of cotton through the rubber band,position rubber band about half way along length of the cotton.

Then thread this end of cotton through the eye of needle also,pull both ends of the cotton further through the eye so that you have about 2.5-3" of double thread cotton through the eye.Double this double thread back on itself and push the needle through in front of the baits eye and draw the doubled cotton through and finally the rubber band,and finish with a loop of the rubber band each side of the baits eye then hook the loops of the rubber band over your hook.

If you can`t get hold of fairly small bands,you can double the band through the fish to tighten the band up.The idea is to have the pressure of the band keep the hook in place.

I hope that makes sense

cheers Gad

[Feral]

Cheers Gad, must no tbe getting enough pressure on the hook, the bands might help that. Its just the cable ties are really simple, no hooks etc.

[Gad]

Feral I`ve used cable ties,(the clip/knuckle is the grief area)using them the problem I found was unless I was using a large bait, and therefore using a large hook due to the size of the bait,and what I was targeting,I had the same problem you are having.

On smaller livies I tried positioning the (clip/buckle) to the side of the bait above the eye,trying to keep the hook clear,but the livie wouldn`t swim properly,and the clip/buckle worked its way back on top and overtightening the tie stuffed the bait

Another way,is to leave the rubber band off and just thread double threaded cotton through the livie a couple of times,ensuring you have the cotton extremely tight,and then thread your hook through the gap of cotton and fish,the 2 cotton methods work well with the smaller live baits and proportionate hooks.

The cable ties are an easy and quick option,but for enjoyment of my fishing I felt they added a problem.

If you look around the elcheapo shops I think you can now get,small thinish cable ties that may be better suited.

cheers

[tobie10]

Went out tonight to try some new techniques with the circle hooks. Just put the drag on a bit less than what I would normally have it at when actually fighting a fish. Got hit on the 6/0 by a fair sized catfish which hooked itself. Seems like having the drag on a bit helped since I didn't miss it like I did last time, but will report back when I pull something in with a bit of a harder mouth.

[51MPL]

well from last night -

mates rod went - ZZZZZZZZZzzz looked up and saw it go FLYING over the railing! WTF?! luckily after a couple minutes another rod went off which turned out to be the first rod flying over being pulled back and the fish was still on! up came a 56cm jew.. then a threadie hooked itself with the drag on light..

but my rod - i left drag on light ; zzzzzzzzzzzz nothing.. wind up bait gone - bit later; zzzz - bait gone. generally the fish hook themself only these couple times got hits but no hookup? :S ( 2 catties hooked themself and then 2 rays hooked themself ) so maybe it was a different type of fish? because i hook livies the same way - 1 inbetween eyes, 1 dorsal area

[DES]

It depends on what type of fish you are targeting. There are biters (snapper, bream etc) that grab there prey and then have to turn it around and swallow it head first. With these fish I let them have their initial run, they then stop to swallow the bait and when they start up again I strike. The other type is inhalers (barra, jew, threadies, flathead etc), these buggers just suck the bait into their cavernous mouths making the 4s rule a good one.

As for hook placement, most fish have to swallow their prey head first making hook placement towards the front a good idea. It is mainly fish that can take clean bites out of their prey (sharks etc) that bite tings on the arse.

[51MPL]

ah i see, thanks for the info! i'm mainly chasing threadies + jew landbased so have live herring/prawns rigged up .. normally i let teh fish run (no point striking as tehy slowly take the bait away imo) as that doesnt result in a hookup. I try to wait for teh fish to swallow or atleast pickup speed a bit making the 4s rule pretty good! then try to strike the fish

[thriller]

Ok tonight will be the circle hook technique!

I am going to use the baitrunner and engage the drag on the run,

so I don't risk loosing the rod lol

I will let yall know how I go..

MJ

[chandler130]

i always judge my strikes on speed of the run and tension when live baiting for bigger fish. once they get that high speed goin i give em few seconds granted there no big structure and sink that hook. unless is a certain species specific. like finger mark always take a slower first run than come back few minutes later and smash you.with jacks you can't let run at all or your snagged that why i use slab mullet then more agressive when they hit rod locked up. just got to deal with picker only problem.

from growin up north live baiting with herring in the creeks we always hook in front of eyes live much longer.

[thriller]

So last night I fished for 8 hours,

using circle hooks and drag set a little higher.

I found that i lost more bait and I missed a few hook ups.

I ended up with 6 catties and 5 rays and 1 35cm Hammerhead.

First ever hammerhead, great looking shark!

Prawns were on from 6-9pm then they disappeared.

I am going back to Mustard Hoodlums.

MJ

[tobie10]

Good to know, thanks for the report back. Will be trialling your technique as well.

[tugger]

got both threadies this weekend with circle hooks and live baits with the drag set firm along with a semi load of catfish