I fought the Law and the law won......!

[batman]

With the weather forecast perfect I dropped the boat in at Comslie at around 5pm, myself and the dogs headed out to do a spot of fishing. I found a good spot to anchor up. I fished for about an hour and as per common sense I kept a keen eye out for any other boats, ships, tugs I wasn’t too concerned as I was anchored well out of the channel.

I spotted a police boat coming my way and his first stop was at a small tinny then he came over to me, I was not worried as I know that my boat is fully compliant with the law….so I thought. The very nice police officer informs me that my boat navigation lighting is in fact not compliant with the law, stunned I asked him how so? :ohmy:

• The navigation lights are in fact mounted incorrectly at the front of the boat. The navigation lights have to be parallel to the centre line of the boat, the nav lights on my Formosa are in fact angled in at about a 45 degree angle following the curve to the nose of the boat, this is in fact illegal.

• The anchor/white navigation light is also not compliant as the “pole†the light is attached to is in fact too low and the centre console and people fishing obscure this light and therefore it can not be seen from 2 nautical miles at 360 degrees at night.

• According to page 47 & 48 of the Queensland Recreational Boating & Fishing Guide the police officers points are correct and therefore Formosa are manufacturing boats that are not compliant with the law.

To add insult to injury the police officers hands me a $200 fine and orders me off the water! To tell you guys that I was f#@%d off is the understatment of the century!!!!

I held my cool and tried to reason with the coppers telling them that it is a brand new boat and that the manufacturer installed the lights......what made it worse is that I pointed out the tinnie who's anchor light was so tiny and weak that I could hardly see it let alone 2 nautical miles away!!!! They just handed me the fine and blasted off into the dark.

Has this ever happened to anyone else?

It will be a cold day in hell before I will be paying for this fine!!!

Batman

[jon]

yeah man thems the rules my mate got done for the same thing (anchor light) and i think youll find a sisable proprtion of products on the market will not suit the all of the rules, and then a gain if the cops wanna sting ya they'll always find something

[kriso]

ouch! i would maybe give the dealer you bought the boat off a call and have some friendly words with them? maybe they can refit the lights on the boat to make them inline with what is the right regs. some people may say the cops are arse holes etc but comes down to saefty at the end and they are just doing there job it can suck when you have bought the boat on the understanding that it meets full qld marine vehicle laws .

[crazywalrus]

hmmm that sucks - You should hit the manufacturer up for the fine. Good luck getting them to pay. That should not happen. You can not sell a car that is not roadworthy. Also If a boat is in an accident and the factory fitted lights are being used I am sure some ones AR@#SE will be on the line. 2 Nautical miles is a long way. Will the curvature of the earth going to be a factor with the height required?

[tyrion]

Thanx for the heads up Batman i have an overnighter organized for tonight will be sure to check this out in the next hour or so.

I agree with the anchor light though on my boat it is at eyes height you cant look forward when at anchor or you get blinded although i didnt think that this would be non compliant being a brand new boat. Sounds like formosa have some research to do with the rules and regs.

[Scope]

I know Sea Jay changed theirs a couple of years ago to avoid this kinda thing. Its something that should never happen with a new boat in my opinion. You're purchasing new for piece of mind - i.e everything in full working order and seaworthy. So WTF???? Why produce a craft and allow it to be sold if you're fully aware that it doesn't comply. Not good form on the manufacturer/dealer (as some lights are fitted by the dealer if they don't come standard) I dare say there will be a lot of unhappy new boat owners around with this crackdown on nav lights....

The only reason I could possibly think of - And this is just speculation - would be if the rules were different in other states, and perhaps the boat is manufactured in that state..... Just a remote possibility is all - Although I'm sure I'll be corrected soon

[smitty]

Dont argue with the cops batman, they always win. just doing there job, you will know next time to check the regs, at least you have been pulled up before anyones been hurt.

[batman]

Formosa is built in Brisbane and the law hasn't changed recently.

I have no issues with the coppers, they were just doing their job and I concur that the last thing I want is tugger coming along and using me as a speed bump.

I have drafted a letter and sent it to my dealer...we will see what action they take....

watch this space!

Batman

[tyrion]

Not sure about Sea Jay boats but the Formosa factory is here in capalaba so they should be up to spec with the local laws.

[dog pound]

Thats a real piss off mate , i bought brand new northbank 490 cuddy last october and 4 weeks later thay stopped me for same thing Anchor light, must of done something right and only copped a warning, went and saw local dealer where i purchased it and he said ( i guess you better buy a bigger light) and walked off, what a di@k head he has now lost all of my business and im spreading the word, and you know how extra money we put into our new rigs, well he missed out on all of it.I purchased battery operated light which i attach to rocket launchers for the night trips.

[rastus]

The way fines are going in qld are if you don't pay auto go onto a spurs account and if still failure to pay loss of license. even for parking fines etc... So you may have to pay it or if it is indeed a new boat take it to where you got it and relay the story to them.

[fergie]

hmmm, :dry: my new stessco tinnie has the same problem. the plates that are welded there for the nav lights are angled inwards and are not parellel with the center. most tinnies i've seen are the same, so that bloody sux

[batman]

I have drafted a letter to my dealer and have asked him to take it up with the factory.The factory fit the lights on Formosa's, there are metal plates welded on to the forward railings so that was the intended spot to mount them.

I will give the factory the benifit of the doubt and lets see what happens....

If they don't come to the party well.....A Current Affair ( I know the producer), 4BC Fishing show, Fishing Queensland Mag and every forum accross the world, plus they will not get my business again.

I will make a stink!!!!

Check your boats fellas cause Plod is waiting for you....

[AZZA]

I am not going to say if the copper is right or wrong but the ruleing I am aware of is that your nav lights must be visible for 112.5deg from the bow centre which makes it 22.5deg from square off the boat. I have seen plenty of official boats with lights that dont comply if that is the ruleing from the cops. I think the judge would throw it out of court quick smart if you went with all the correct info, still a waste of your time though but is sometimes to get the last laugh

[dog pound]

Good luck mate, i just rolled over and bought a new light for my rig. Not worth the stress and cost, then went to Tackle warehouse to help me get over it.

[daveylad]

AZZA wrote:

I am not going to say if the copper is right or wrong but the ruleing I am aware of is that your nav lights must be visible for 112.5deg from the bow centre which makes it 22.5deg from square off the boat. I have seen plenty of official boats with lights that dont comply if that is the ruleing from the cops. I think the judge would throw it out of court quick smart if you went with all the correct info, still a waste of your time though but is sometimes to get the last laugh

Mate I second what Azza is saying, although if you have all the info regarding the boat manfacture/ safety records Registration documents from purchase and find out if Formosa are still manafacturing them this way I would give it a run. 1st send a letter to the Police requesting that the ticket be recinded due to the fact that the boat is manafactured in Australia and sold that way and that you would expect it to conform to Austrlain Statndards, supply that material and tell them that if they do not assist you you would be happy to plead not guilty and have the matter heard in a local court. I used to be in that jpb and I have seen it done numerous times The Police will on many occasions drop tickets rather than the expense at court if there is a chance of them losing. Personally I would give it a run. try the letter first Also hit Formosa.

Davey

[rayke1938]

When you first register or transfer the rego on a car you need a RWC .

The same thing with a trailer except if its under 750kg you dont need a rwc but you still have to self assess it.

Looks like the same thing is required for watercraft.That way the manufactures and dealer can be held responsible.

Only thing it will cost you.

Cheers

Ray

[waldo]

This has been raised on a number of sites several times because a lot of people have been and are still being caught. It really does need some media coverage to get the message out there because most people are totally unaware.

Sorry about the hit to your pocket.

[crazywalrus]

I agree but don't you think that the definition on the anchor light is a little vague. Be able to see it at 2 nautical miles??? I am going to go now and read the law. I just spent $70 to buy the tallest light extension I can get in LED however I doubt if it compiles as well.

1. Is it tall enough to see at 2 Nautical miles

2. I doubt if the lite is strong enough.

hmmm needs to be exact like the navigation lights. IMO Ted

[Sparksie]

Hi Batman

Thank for passing on your experiences here, despite them being unsavoury..

Hope it turns out well, via the retailer / factory etc.

If you get the chance, add the end results onto the post..

[bootyinblue]

PM Sent....

[Old Scaley]

Had the same problem with my Sea Jay. I was pulled up during daylight though so no fine, just some advice. Wrote to Sea Jay. Response as follows:

Hi Steve, The best thing to with the nav lights is to make a wedge to mount them on to bring the front out parallel with the keel. With the anchor light/stern light you can now order a new higher light from BLA P/no 121322 which is 1.5m high, If you go to there online store you can buy one from there or you could go back to Stones Corner and they would be able to order it for you.

Regards

Troy Glass

Research & Development

So I wouldn't hold out much hope that Formosa will come to your rescue. I bought the all round on an extendable pole ($70 from Whitworths)but haven't fixed the nav lights yet. Also haven't been out at night since. I will get around to making the change some day as it makes sense to be as visible as possible. Scope had an informative post a while ago about some modifications t a similar boat that might help.

Cheers

Steve

[dhess]

Pretty lame effort by Seajay.

I would send them a transcript of this thread and inform them that ACA and Today will be the net parties notified. Either one of them will be all over it like a rash.

[crazywalrus]

Old Scaley wrote:

So I wouldn't hold out much hope that Formosa will come to your rescue. I bought the all round on an extendable pole ($70 from Whitworths)but haven't fixed the nav lights yet. Also haven't been out at night since.

That is the one I have bought and I am still unsure if it complies on my boat as if you stand on the casting decks to stand higher than the light and the LED light is not that bright. I doubt whether it could be seen from 2 nautical miles away. IMO.

[Scope]

Old Scaley wrote:

Had the same problem with my Sea Jay. I was pulled up during daylight though so no fine, just some advice. Wrote to Sea Jay. Response as follows:

Hi Steve, The best thing to with the nav lights is to make a wedge to mount them on to bring the front out parallel with the keel. With the anchor light/stern light you can now order a new higher light from BLA P/no 121322 which is 1.5m high, If you go to there online store you can buy one from there or you could go back to Stones Corner and they would be able to order it for you.

Regards

Troy Glass

Research & Development

So I wouldn't hold out much hope that Formosa will come to your rescue. I bought the all round on an extendable pole ($70 from Whitworths)but haven't fixed the nav lights yet. Also haven't been out at night since. I will get around to making the change some day as it makes sense to be as visible as possible. Scope had an informative post a while ago about some modifications t a similar boat that might help.

Cheers

Steve

The police suggested the same thing to me about the wedge behind the nav lights. However, in my opinion its just not practical because the lights then stick out past the gunwhale. Meaning if your anchor catches while you're pulling it in or something like that, its gonna knock the offending light clean off. Ditto if you brush against a pylon or wharf.

[batman]

Ok time to step this topic up a notch!

I followed up my letter to my dealer The Tinnie Shack (Mission Beach) this morning. Carla Grieve and her husband Dean run the Tinnie Shack and I can not say a bad word about these guys, every time I have had a problem with my boat they have been right on top of things.

Carla told me that she had a VERY sleepless night as she is gravely worried about the consequences of liability if someone gets injured due to them selling boats that do not comply with the law.

Dean has been in the industry a long time and admits that "that’s just how it is" attitude is the norm in the boating industry. Every manufacturer is doing the same thing....why....cause its called cutting costs!!!

Most of the centre consoles going out of his show room leave with a T top, they mount the light on top of the T top, therefore it is a permanent fixture. However, CC with Bimi covers present a problem.......

As far as the nav lights well..the railing on the front of the boat is an easy spot to put them so hey lets just flout the law and put them there...... she be right!

Carla will be taking it up with Formosa today and will get back to me....

I am not trying to use Formosa as a scape goat here, as it sounds like a lot of manufacturers are doing the same thing. More to the point I would hope that Formosa rectify this with all their boats and become a market leader, showing that the law and safety comes first.

Batman

Also...whilst the police officer was writing me my ticket what looked like a Hains Hunter 6m cabin came blasting past us less than 50 yards away and he DID NOT have his white 360 degree light ON....only his side nav lights.

Did you know that the rules for boats UNDERWAY are:

Boats less than 12 metres under way must display:

separate or combined sidelights, a masthead light and a stern light or

separate or combined sidelights, an all round white light. (that is straight from the book)

YES...YOU MUST HAVE YOUR WHITE NAVIGATION LIGHT ON WHILST YOU ARE UNDERWAY!!!! WHEN YOU ANCHOR YOU SWITCH YOUR NAV LIGHTS OFF!!

That’s what the copper said! DID YOU KNOW THAT?

[Do$tylz]

far out... looks like my boat is not compliant... I need a higher 360 light... and I still don't get it with the nav lights at the front... will need someone to let me know if its compliant next time they see it.

can someone provide a picture of what is and isn't compliant?

[batman]

Do$tylz

Mate, imagine a centre line running down the centre of your boat looking forwrad.....

The nav lights have to be parralel to that centre line...not mounted to the curve of the nose of your boat therefore the nav light will sit at a say 45 degree angle..the lights will cross over each other which is illegal !

[AZZA]

[1800amix]

I made a mod to mine a while ago.

I used a spare short anchor light and mounted it in the centre rocket launcher which sits above the storm covers. It's down the centreline of the boat. I think this is where it is supposed to be rather than off to the side.

I still have the original anchor light in place which probably only sits about 3 feet high off the rear of the starboard gunwale (the usual spot anchor lights are installed).

Have them both wired to the same pot so when I anchor I have both running.

Experimented with LED but the output was less than average so have stayed with incandescent bulbs.

Hopefully I meet requirements but it really seems more like "lucky dip" when you meet a cop.

/>http://www.nmsc.gov.au/recreational_boating/index.php?MID=78&CID=75

[Scope]

Batman, the all round white light law has been in place for a while. It was called and anchor light previously because the law stated that it had to be on only while anchored. However, after this law changed, the name stuck, hence why people still believe it to be an 'only while anchored up' light, as opposed to an 'on at all times' light.

I too found that out first hand from the police

[Beejay]

I know how frustrating it is to take a fine.

A couple of years ago I was out fishing about 20 meters away from king island in waterloo bay, a big aluminium police boat comes flying at me and drops his speed about 3 meters before he gets to me, so me and the missus are nearly put of balance and thrown in with the sharks from my 4.2 stacer.

They then start checkin out all my safety gear (fair enough) I happen to have left my flairs at home as I was told I didnt need them unless I was going to be a fair way out in the bay.

Anyway the nice policeman gave me a $200 fine, and I pleaded with him to give me a break as I was going through some financial difficulties at the time but he wouldnt have a bar of it....lol

Heres the best bit...lol I said to the missus no worries, we will just go home and come out again tommorrow just dont forget the flares.

So we went out the next day (making sure I had my flares with me) same spot catching a few sharks for dinner, along comes mr policeman again (im not joking either it was the same guy) he remembered me from the day before and asked if i had my flares today and I was like : yeah mate im all good today and he said can you show me, so i handed him the flares and he handed them back and said these flares are out of date and i said NO WAY??

But I took a look and they had just run out about 2 weeks earlier....so mr policeman wrote me another $200 ticket while i cried and cried and cried....lol

That is a true story, I know it was all my fault on both occasions but you would think sometimes the police have the power to make exceptions and in my case, i was already punished enough the day before, so I ended up paying an expensive lesson. I know I wouldnt be able to do there job, but I guess someone has to do it...Cheers Beejay

[batman]

Ladies and Gentleman

We have a result!!!!!!!!!!!!

• I just received a VERY impressive email from Carla Grieves from the Tinnie Shack.

• First up I received a sincere apology in writing from the Tinnie Shack and from Formosa Marine.

• Secondly Formosa Marine have offered and will be paying the fine.

• Thirdly….In the coming days Formosa will be working out how to comply with the Queensland Boating regulations and once this is done then they will be in contact with me to rectify the problem.

Once again I can not praise The Tinnie Shack enough for the professionalism and genuine sincerity Carla and Dean Grieves have shown.

I have had a few major issues since getting my boat, the water impeller popped at 17 hours and resulted in a full rebuild of my motor, when certain Honda dealers in Brisbane didn’t want to help they arranged for a technician to fly up to Brisbane to fix the problem.

I have to give them a huge plug, so if you are looking to by a Formosa/Honda powered boat at an unbelievable price have a chat to the Tinnie Shack. They might be in mission beach but they stay in touch, they have an affiliation with Currumbin Marine who delivered the boat and have also been fantastic.

I am very relieved!

Batman

[Beejay]

Great news, must feel good to know you dont have to pay that fine now and that someone is going to look after the compliance of your boat.

Good to see there are reputable dealers and companys operating in Australia...Cheers Beejay

[tugger]

Batman that is good to hear and hat off to your boat dealer too, some others would fob you off in the industry

mark

[batman]

Beejay wrote:

I know how frustrating it is to take a fine.

A couple of years ago I was out fishing about 20 meters away from king island in waterloo bay, a big aluminium police boat comes flying at me and drops his speed about 3 meters before he gets to me, so me and the missus are nearly put of balance and thrown in with the sharks from my 4.2 stacer.

They then start checkin out all my safety gear (fair enough) I happen to have left my flairs at home as I was told I didnt need them unless I was going to be a fair way out in the bay.

Anyway the nice policeman gave me a $200 fine, and I pleaded with him to give me a break as I was going through some financial difficulties at the time but he wouldnt have a bar of it....lol

Heres the best bit...lol I said to the missus no worries, we will just go home and come out again tommorrow just dont forget the flares.

So we went out the next day (making sure I had my flares with me) same spot catching a few sharks for dinner, along comes mr policeman again (im not joking either it was the same guy) he remembered me from the day before and asked if i had my flares today and I was like : yeah mate im all good today and he said can you show me, so i handed him the flares and he handed them back and said these flares are out of date and i said NO WAY??

But I took a look and they had just run out about 2 weeks earlier....so mr policeman wrote me another $200 ticket while i cried and cried and cried....lol

That is a true story, I know it was all my fault on both occasions but you would think sometimes the police have the power to make exceptions and in my case, i was already punished enough the day before, so I ended up paying an expensive lesson. I know I wouldnt be able to do there job, but I guess someone has to do it...Cheers Beejay

Thanks for the story Beejay but in this case my boat is brand new, it should comply with the Queensland Boating Regulations, it doesn't! I was not personally at fault the manufacturer is, yes I am the skipper and should have made myself aware of the rules but on face value looking at my brand new boat I doubt even the dealers know what's legal and what is not.

In the end the factory came to the party and did the right thing! Good on them!

[Beejay]

Sorry mate, I only put that story up just because I thought a few might get a laugh out of my stupity....lol

I knew all along that it was the manufacturers fault mate, sorry if you took it the wrong way...Im glad it all worked out for you...cheers Beejay

[bootyinblue]

Batman... You have just set some pretty serious bench marks if all this is 100% true and I have no reason to doubt it for a minute.

By paying the fine, have Formosa admitted constructing products which do not adhere to legislation? Will there be a recall of all affected Formosa boats for retro fitting?

Will other boat manufacturers sit up and take note at what Formosa have decided and scrutinise their placement of lights?

Will other boaters who have been fined for incorrect light placement refer their fines on to the respective boat manufacturer?

I mean seriously, how many 1000's of boats are running around with a short little all round white light (mine included) which cannot be seen 'all round'?

Wowwwww.... where to now?

[kriso]

mmmmm, i always thought the dealer is supplied with a hull trailer and motor package and then they fit out the boat to the customers specs? Unless formosa actually stipulate or fit themselves the lights to the boat with out warning that it does not meet qld maratime standards then they where in the shiezer and not the dealer, we used to lower peoples cars fit those stupid lights etc all the time - but we also gave them written notice that these items have been fitted by request of the consumer and do not meet current qld roadworthy standards.

[bootyinblue]

kriso wrote:

we used to lower peoples cars fit those stupid lights etc all the time

Hey!!! My car is lowered and has 'stupid lights' :woohoo: