Snapper bag limit may be reduced & size increased?

[Dusky]

Help protect Queensland snapper

Issue #2, 10 August 2010

Through boat ramp engagement, media and general contact with stakeholders a number of queries and concerns have been raised with Fisheries Queensland in relation to snapper, and in particular the status of Queensland’s snapper stock. This update captures and provides answers for some of the general queries that have been raised by recreational fishers as well as addressing specific concerns raised by the recreational peak body Sunfish.

Is Queensland's snapper stock considered overfished?

Queensland’s snapper stock is considered overfished - this means snapper is being harvested at unsustainable levels and rebuilding of the stock is required. If catch and fishing effort in the fishery are not reduced it is likely that stock levels will continue to decline. It is unlikely that snapper will be fished to the point where the stock collapses but there will likely be significant ecological, economic and social impacts if overfishing continues.

Are juvenile snapper very abundant or depleted?

The issue is not about the actual abundance of juvenile snapper but whether enough juvenile snapper survive to be caught by fishers. The current problem with the snapper stock is that the harvest rate is too high. The number of juveniles surviving to adults is not enough to sustain this level of harvest in the long-term.

When do snapper mature?

Fish of the same age can be of very different lengths. Snapper mature between two and five years of age. The average length of mature fish can be anywhere between 25 to 34 cm in total length. The range in lengths needs to be taken into account when setting size limits.

How old are Queensland snapper and how is age measured?

In Queensland, the maximum age of snapper that has been recorded is around 30 years. This compares to a maximum age of 60 years in New Zealand where snapper are slower growing. Analysis of otoliths or ear bones is used to determine the age of a fish. Fisheries Queensland samples the recreational, charter and commercial snapper catch at boat ramps and fish processors to identify the length and age of the catch. In 2008, over 5000 snapper were sampled. Fishing pressure has resulted in the majority of snapper now caught in Queensland being only three to eight years old.

Restrictions were placed on snapper in 2003 to protect snapper stocks – how have these restrictions been assessed?

In 2003 the minimum legal size of snapper increased from 30cm to 35cm and the bag limit was reduced from 30 fish to five fish. The most recent stock assessment indicates that these changes halted the decline in stock levels for a short time, but the benefit was short-lived because fishing pressure has continued to increase which has driven a further stock decline in more recent years.

Is the problem with snapper limited to one area i.e. reduced number of large/old fish in heavily used areas such as the Gold Coast?

Snapper catch rates have shown declines in other areas. Over the past 10 years fishers targeting snapper have put more effort into the Sunshine Coast and Fraser Coast areas in attempts to maintain good catches. Overall the length and age of the snapper caught indicates that the fishing mortality is too high.

What are the most recent surveys of recreational catches for snapper that have been done?

The most recent statewide survey of recreational fishing catches was conducted for 2005. While the survey period may not have captured the effects of the 2003 changes, other information such as catches and catch rates from the commercial and charter sectors to 2008, and the length and age of the catch in 2006 and 2007 have been used in the stock assessment.

Isn’t the snapper fishery primarily a recreational line only fishery, subject to weather conditions?

The recreational sector takes an estimated two thirds of the catch, the charter sector around 7% and commercial sector 27%. Recreational fishing for snapper is managed primarily through size and bag limit provisions. The size and bag limit for snapper also applies to fishing on charter trips. The size limit for snapper also applies to commercial fishing with the number of commercial fishing boat licences capped since 1984.

Wouldn’t marine park zoning totally protect a large proportion of the snapper population?

Snapper are very mobile. For spatial closures to be effective in rebuilding the stock they need to be very large and in the right areas so they protect, for example, important nursery grounds. Currently 16% of the Moreton Bay Marine Park is now designated as no-take areas, i.e. green zones. Even taking into account the level of protection in Moreton Bay and the parts of the Great Sandy Marine Park and Capricornia Section of the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park – these areas offer limited protection to both adult and juvenile snapper. Fisheries Queensland scientists consider that these areas protect less than a couple of percent of snapper habitat and would not contribute significantly to reductions in fishing pressure necessary to rebuild the snapper stock.

The following information has been provided in direct response to Sunfish queries about snapper stock:

Sunfish: The future precautionary introduction of a limit of two snapper over 50cm could be considered in heavily fished areas, but the minimum size of 35cm and bag limit of 5 should be maintained.

Response: Consultation on future management options to rebuild the snapper stock will occur later in the year. At this stage we are working to ensure anglers are fully informed about the status of snapper stock before a consultation document is released later this year seeking feedback on potential changes to the Rocky Reef Fin Fish Fishery.

Sunfish: Seasonal closures for snapper fishing are not warranted and opposed by recreational fishers.

Response: Again, consultation on management options to rebuild the snapper stock will occur later in the year. At this stage stakeholders will be able to make further comment on options being put forward.

Sunfish: Sunfish has asked Minister Mulherin for an urgent independent scientific review of the Fisheries Queensland snapper assessment.

Response: The stock assessment completed in 2009 has been independently reviewed by a leading international fisheries scientist. The reviewer supported the general findings of the stock assessment.

Snapper stock assessment

A summary of the stock assessment is available on the Department of Employment, Economic Development and Innovation website. The full stock assessment report including the independent review report is available through the Business Information Centre on 13 25 23.

Whats your thoughts fellas??

[daveylad]

This is my first year of fishing in this great part of the country, when everyone was telling me Snapper season is coming up I was really excited. My observations of it up to now are that there appears to be plenty of smaller juvenilles (squire) about but I have not seen the larger ones that I have heard so much about. I have also heard other make similar comments too. Tend to agree with my limited experience that there should be a limit on the number of larger ones

[Keen-as-fisho]

The fact about recreational fisho's taking upto 2/3's of the 'stock' is abit high imo, and the commercial sector taking 27%, just seems back to front. Also how often do you see undersized squire at the co-ops or any fish for that matter. I reckon the size/ bag limits for the commercial sector should be heavily restricted and enforced to maintain the 'stocks' survival.

As for the juvenille snapper, squire, thats all I have been catching lately when out chasing them . There seems to be an abundence of them.

[crazywalrus]

It is hard to say - I am surprised of the % take of the recreational fishos. I would think that the updated Bag and size limits would not have had any influence yet on fish numbers.

[robtarr]

I struggle to understand why they waste their time and our money doing so many surveys when an effective solution stares them in the face.

From where I sit it's simple - wherever professional activity has been limited or banned fish stocks have significantly improved and that's with little or no change to recreational angling pressure other than imposing size and bag limits - which I wholeheartedly endorse and wish they'd enforce more.

Take Victoria's Port Phillip Bay for example where the ban on scallop dredging in 1995 has been directly linked to the snapper fishery boom in recent years. The banning of kingfish traps around Sydney Harbour has yielded a huge turnaround in kingfish numbers there and in my old home state of SA the banning of commercial fishing in the top of the Gulf St Vincent along with a complete no take during the snapper spawning month of November has seen the snapper population down there boom.

It's a no-brainer if they have the will to do it and forget about the politics.

[flexo]

45cm length 2 per person max 4 per boat and a closed breeding season Thats my say.

[dhess]

A lot of good points raised.

I don't have any issues with a bag limit of 2 fish over 50cm and a total limit being kept at 5.

Limiting the catch of larger individuals that re more fecund makes perfect scientific sense.

Usually have a self imposed size limit of around 45cm on my boat but this season has been a bit slow.

[mick fillet]

Wow :ohmy: it wouldnt be good if they reduced the bag limit thats for sure.

I dont see any significant drop in catches if any thing we are seing more caught than ever.we get reports from the southern bay brissy mouth and mud even bulimba snapper reports pop in to my mind.The bay is full of em and well out wide off moreton and north is just stacks and stacks of snapper shows on the sounders.I think the measures in place now are good enough its just going to take time to see mamoth results.

If fisher people have noticed and I have noticed a big increase in the ratio between juvenile snaps and stonker snaps in the bay and rivers.the juvenile ratio increasing is a good thing to see, it provs the snaps are bouncing back and of coarse we are going to see more and more of these offset ratios happen for some time until the juvi snapper schools grow

At this stage I have noticed theres more juvies around than knobies and that why it far and few between stonker fish because the ratios are all mucked up. I reckon just leave things the way they are and eventually the mojority juvi snaps in the bay will find them selves schooling up off shore and starting the cycle over again

A closed season for snapper for rec,and pro divisions should be looked at first before new bag limits come in to play .

on another note.-- I think the exploding shark population off the coast is a joke and focus on this topic should be at the top of the list.wont be long now and we will see people droping off our shore line like crazy due to random shark encounters as the shark ratio to human swimmers sky rockets.

mick

[dhess]

Interesting theory Mick.

If I understand correctly you are saying that a lot of just legal fish are being caught offshore and not many knobbies because we are catching the just legals before the knobbies can have a crack at our baits. I like it. Just have to use bigger baits next time. :woohoo:

As for exploding shark numbers and shark:swimmer ratios I say bring it on. Might control the exploding number of humans. LMAO If only we could tag scumbags and idiots for elimination. Could be a Nobel prize waiting for some budding scientist.

[smitty]

Sounds like a great idea, its not easy to catch a couple of snapper for feed and only going to get worse as population increases in SEQ. 2pp is plenty

[rayke1938]

Have a look at this link and get involved if you wish to have a say.

www.dpi.qld.gov.au/30_18088.htm

I also have a pdf file on a brochure that is going to be given out by fishcare volunteers.I dont know how to reduce it to post.

Cheers

Ray

[katfish]

why cant we farm them, mangrove jacks, barrumundi can survive comfortably in fresh, & from what i believe, other quality tablefish have also responded well to captive breeding. good news to potential fish farmers everywhere.

[bootyinblue]

Would much rather an increase to 45sm with 2 per person limit than a closed season....

Not that I catch many anyway :-(

[rayke1938]

Some more reading from sunfish this time.

sunfish.realitysoftware.com.au/getnews.php?

I have tried to get some stats on commercial catch stats but could only find stats up to year 2000 but the reading is pretty grim.

I do not think there is any way we can blame the pros for any decline in the Snapper fishery in Qld as they only line fish for them with a very small percentage being trawl bycatch.

The main commercial effort being up north not in SEQ area.

Cheers

Ray

sorry you will have to cut and paste to read the link

or try here
/>http://sunfish.realitysoftware.com.au/getnews.php?filename=20100804104523%20Save%20Our%20Snapper

[katfish]

p.s, captive animals often survive longer because they re not competing so heavily on food, & no predators. fish grow quicker in captivity, because snapper grow realy big :ohmy: its the perfect fish to farm, because of its early maturation, compared to deep sea fish, like orange roughy

[rayke1938]

Sorry not a great fan of fish farms seen quite a few problems that have destroyed wild fish populations from diseases .introduced by fish farms

Someone tried to start up a snapper fish farm in Moreton bay a few years ago and thankfully they failed to get Government approval for the above reasons.

Cheers

Ray

[katfish]

on topic, I dont know how they can amend this because the research is ongoing & incomplete. fishing is farming. you rotate your crops, once that crop has been rotated a few times, the bed will then grow nitrogen crops to add nutrients to that bed. that will then rest to recover.

same with fishing. areas that frequently get hammered, should be rested long enough for the said species to recover, and they do recover. surly there will be enough ocean to go round...

[katfish]

once they get it right, might be the only way to feed increasing population.

[Keen-as-fisho]

Problem is once a location has been closed for rehabilitation, it will never be reopened. The best way would be a tighter bag and size limit imo.

[dassa]

Katfish you have hit the nail on the head they are doing it down sth (I think it's nsw) but I am not quite sure but they are doing it to help with the wild stocks.They are breading jack top be stocked it to impoundments,so why can't they stock snapper into the rivers in queensland to help eleviate this problem

[rayke1938]

I was having a bit of a yarn with the DPI guys at Bruns at the SOO. They were quite knowledgeable about the restocking program being run in the Richmond ( I think )for jew and tiger prawns. Apparently their studies are almost complete and the results will have an impact on future directions on the feasability and viability of future saltwater restocking.

I must admitt after speaking to these guys I am really in favor of a general fishing licence run on the same pattern as NSW where it is run by a fishing trust controlled by anglers.

Cheers

Ray

[katfish]

Robtarr. spot on m8

[robtarr]

unfortunately it's not just snapper that are under threat

I just spent a week on Straddie mainly on the beaches when I wasn't fishing in the yak and couldn't believe the level of netting activity all the way down to the pin.

Talking to one of the locals at the Amity ramp he said the pros had been having a poor run lately and were taking whatever they could get. He complained about finding tailor one afternoon only to return the following day to find the pros had cleaned the area out.

Not sure what price they get for tailor but can't see it would be worth more for the local economy than the revenue generated by all the visitors to the island keen to wet a line and catch a fish for dinner.

Some of the govt's stimulus money....our money....would have been better spent buying back these licences and funding programmes to encourage young people to switch off the playstation and take up fishing as a worthwhile healthier way to spend their leisure time....instead of giving everyone $900 to buy another plasma screen.

[ellicat]

Hey robtarr, I've voiced my opinions in blue.

robtarr wrote:

unfortunately it's not just snapper that are under threat

It is in Queensland. Snapper are puportedly down to 35% of original stock levels (however they knew that ) 40% is the arbitrary figure. Snapper are the only ones reported to be this low.

I just spent a week on Straddie mainly on the beaches when I wasn't fishing in the yak and couldn't believe the level of netting activity all the way down to the pin.

Talking to one of the locals at the Amity ramp he said the pros had been having a poor run lately and were taking whatever they could get. He complained about finding tailor one afternoon only to return the following day to find the pros had cleaned the area out.

It's only a temporary lull. The fish will return promptly as they always do. The pros keep returning to the same area as the fish keep returning as well. Otherwise the pros wouldn't be back

Not sure what price they get for tailor but can't see it would be worth more for the local economy than the revenue generated by all the visitors to the island keen to wet a line and catch a fish for dinner.

Not sure the pros fishing that area have any effect whatsoever on the local economy. As the fish will return so will the fishermen.

Some of the govt's stimulus money....our money....would have been better spent buying back these licences and funding programmes to encourage young people to switch off the playstation and take up fishing as a worthwhile healthier way to spend their leisure time....instead of giving everyone $900 to buy another plasma screen.

I think the first $900 stimulus hit the spot well, but the next one was not necessary as the "crisis" had passed by that time. It may have been better targeted elsewhere. I don't agree that buying back licences would have helped keep people employed

This topic of fish stocks etc has been discussed many times. There is a wealth of info and opinion on the site in the Environment forum. For those interested it is well worth a browse and read. In the end though, regulation on take and size is a small but important factor in sustaining fish levels but only when combined with managing the quality of their environment. - Look to run-off pollution, mangrove destruction, ....etc for the real answer.

[robtarr]

hey Ellicat I applaud your optimism - pardon my cynicism - fortunately in Australia we're all free to voice our opinion

point taken on habitat and couldn't agree more

cheers

[crazywalrus]

ellicat wrote:

In the end though, regulation on take and size is a small but important factor in sustaining fish levels but only when combined with managing the quality of their environment. - Look to run-off pollution, mangrove destruction, ....etc for the real answer.

I agree with you that habitat destruction and pollution has a lot to do with the reduction in numbers but these things are here to stay. We can make some changes to water quality in the watercourses but there will not be any major changes as the cities and industries are already here.

How do we manage the fish numbers from now on and promote the population to grow? I think the bag limits and size limits go a long way towards this. Maybe they should be tougher but it will take time for the recent change to make any difference.

Does anybody now the breading cycle of the snapper?

[tugger]

it sounds like there is no shortage of smaller snapper around so maybe only 1 fish over 50cm to be possession is the solution if there is a problem with less big snapper around and keep the existing size and baglimits to give the average punter from getting a snap.

[ellicat]

robtarr wrote:

hey Ellicat I applaud your optimism - pardon my cynicism - fortunately in Australia we're all free to voice our opinion

point taken on habitat and couldn't agree more

cheers

All good robtarr. Not attempting to stifle anyone's opinion/s. Yours was just a good post to respond to to voice my own.

It's not just optimism it's a fact that has been proven for 200 years lol...or at least since pros first returned to the place they caught fish last time. They have been doing it at Straddie and along most of the beach from here to back to here scooping out mullet etc time after time. Everyone complains immediately afterwards, but a fortnight or week later the fishings as good as it was before. Why ?...because these types of fish don't stand still and are replaced by the next schools in the run.

Ted, There's always a way to deal with a problem - even co-habiting with industry etc. The only thing standing in the way is political will and dollars. Attacking fishing with reduced bags etc is the easy out both politically and financially.

This whole discussion has eventuated because (as they have stated) they are using data from the year 2000 when the bag was 30. They dropped it to 5 in 2008 and they don't know if that's been successful or not. Go figure..... :S

Having said that I wouldn't mind a regulation like tugger has proposed. It's just the question of whether or not it is needed that interests me, and the method of their decision making that leaves me bewildered, untrusting and sceptical of everything that is put out. We've been burnt before.

[crazywalrus]

I agree that we could do more to control the runoff but is everybody willing to pay for it. Not to sure on that.

I myself am not disappointed with the current bag and size limits. At the end of the day I only need a feed for the family when I head out to fish. I have never bagged out so it has never been an issue for me. If stronger bag and size limits could make it easier to actually pickup some legal fish that would make me happy. The change in bag limits in 2008 will take a few years to make a change to the population of adult fish. (not sure on the growth rate) It would take several generations of fish to increase numbers. Maybe Tugger's Suggestion would be a good idea to further boost the breeding stock.