Some Home Truths About Braid

[Orca]

In an industry that seems to be able to get away with telling half truths and sometimes just downright lies on a regular basis, it seems to me nothing gets more nonsense talked about than Braid. Magazines and Newspapers and Boards like this are full of claims and counter claims as to what is the best etc.

With this in mind, I thought I should share some TRUTHS with you and you can make your own mind up in the future about what type of Braid to buy armed with some more knowledge than you probably have now.

The first thing most people don’t realise is that there are only 2 real PE Dyneema manufacturers in the world - one of them is in Holland and the other is a company called Toyobo in Japan - the factory that manufactures our Takeda Braid.. When I made my fist visit to the factory about 6 years ago before we started to put Braid into our product line, almost the very first question they asked me was “How much do you want to pay�. I thought this to be a very strange thing to ask until I eventually realised what they were actually on about.

Apparently it is very common to blend cotton in with the Dyneema to make the Braid. This can reduce the cost quite significantly but also reduces the amount of time it takes to rot and also it makes the braid thicker and more buoyant thus taking more time to sink through the water.

They also asked me if I preferred stiff or soft braid as they can spray silicon and all sorts of other stuff onto the braid to vary its stiffness and of course vary its cost. One other question they asked me was how many strands did I want. Many of the cheaper braids use 6 strand which has an elliptical cross section or 8 strand which has a nice round cross section shape. The round shape in my experience gives you a better casting distance because it goes through the guides easier.

All this information was initially a bit hard for an old lifetime Mono user to get his head around but eventually I did and in summary I will give you my observations:

• The best braid i think you can buy is 100% Dyneema and has 8 strands in the weave. This makes it nice and round and very soft, and also gives it the longest life expectancy.

• Cheaper Braid often is blended with cotton and uses 6 strands ,rots much quicker, and tends to sink slower.

• The stiffness of the Braid is very much a personal preference and is a bit of a red herring in terms of whether or not its better than another. Some people like stiff braids and other people like it soft. One is NOT better than the other in my honest opinion though the marketing departments of the major brands will try to tell you differently.

• The cost difference between brands can be huge. Our Takeda Braid is 100% pure Japanese Dyneema and uses an 8 strand weave. It is nice and soft.

• I am aware of several “BIG NAME†braids that are exactly the same as ours but are priced around 20-40% higher because they are perceived in the market to be superior because they are badged with a well known name.

• The diameter of the braid again is subject to individual preferences to a degree and is ultimately a compromise between having a nice soft feel as opposed to making it as thin as possible. If you use our Takeda braid as an example, my personal preference is to make a nice soft braid so therefore our braid is not the thinnest on the market. However, I can ask the factory to pre- stretch it and make a tighter weave and it will result in a reduction in diameter which in turn will have less water resistance. The downside is it will be stiffer and potentially reduce its knot strength according to the factory engineers.

This is not meant to be a highly technical explanation of all the ins and outs of different braids but I hope it at least gives you some food for thought in the future when braid shopping.

Cheers

Orca

[yoyo]

Do you have a commercial interest you would like to state Orca ?

[Orca]

Of course i have..i have clearly stated this in the article. We sell Braid under the Takeda brand.

[planetfonz]

if you can beat 29 smackeroo's for 1000m of smoke grey 8lb braid then i'm all ears and eyes

[Jords]

if you can beat 29 smackeroo's for 1000m of smoke grey 8lb braid then i'm all ears and eyes

WHERE!?

[dassa]

So is it stated on any packageing how many strands there are on the roll of braid eg fin's,fireline.So how do we know we are getting what we payed for?

[Orca]

You seem to have missed the whole point of the article unfortunately Price is only 1 part of the equation. The article is all about checking the quality of what you are buying and also the fact that very often you pay a lot more to get a "Big Brand Name". Famous Brand names do not automatically guarantee top quality braid.

[Orca]

Very often nit is yes but also the shape is a good giveway usually.

[Phoenixx]

*PERSONAL OPINION ALERT*

When i first saw the title, i was actually quite excited. Finally someone within the industry cutting through all the BS and giving some genuine advice so that amateur fisherman such as myself can improve our knowledge and skills.

After reading the article though, my opinion has changed drastically. This reads just like any article in any magazine. A biased article pushing the products associated to the person writing it. I don't see many "home truths" in what you have written!

Once again people, this is just my opinion. I have never claimed to be an expert in anything (especially fishing) and will never claim to be. This is not an attack on Orca or his opinions. I am purely expressing how this article reads to me.

Cheers

Duane

[tugger]

I don't use braid at all as many here know but the 6 to 8 strand diference makes sense to me as with rope the more strands on the ropes we use at work the more round they become and have less friction so we use 12 stand rope at work and find it lasts longer due to less friction

[Orca]

This is NOT a big product push by me at all - it was a genuine attempt to try and educate people about what to look for. There are many lesser known brands who sell Braid for much cheaper prices than some of the Big Names and they are also made the same way as our braid is.The article exposes several of things which i have never seen written in any magazine.

[ellicat]

Good article Orca.

I don't read it as a plug for Takeda braid at all. You just used that as an example.

If it does read like a plug then the chances are Takeda is ticking the boxes for what you are looking for in a braid.

The wife and I personally like it stiffer so Takeda wont be for us. Although the Suffix 832 I have is very supple and casts well on the baitcaster, so I like it softer there.

[planetfonz]

if you can beat 29 smackeroo's for 1000m of smoke grey 8lb braid then i'm all ears and eyes

WHERE!?

just various chinese and HK ebay sellers jords.. bid at the right time and its dirty cheap ...

[Travis]

Good article Orca.

I don't read it as a plug for Takeda braid at all. You just used that as an example.

If it does read like a plug then the chances are Takeda is ticking the boxes for what you are looking for in a braid.

The wife and I personally like it stiffer so Takeda wont be for us. Although the Suffix 832 I have is very supple and casts well on the baitcaster, so I like it softer there.

I want half of what hes sending you for saying that ay... thanks for the stickers "wet the bed" bah ha ha

[yoyo]

I love a good Advertorial

[ellicat]

Orca is a paying sponsor of AFO just like Zim Man. He would be entitled to put up a For Sale sign if he wanted - as he has done for the regular warehouse sales exclusive to members here that many enjoyed Thursday and probably again today.

Having said that there is no blatant push for his product in the article. If there was it is irrelevant anyway.

Maybe some are offended that they paid too much for the name brands :whistle:

Yoyo - quit while you're behind.

[fishingnut]

Why knot (geddit lol ) just make a 7 strand and that will equal the universe........

[rosstralia46]

thanks orca i agree u are only using takeda braid as an example the main thing i got out of it is that u dont know what ur getting unless u ask em to make it for you i will have a look at the braid next time thanks for the info orca

[yoyo]

Ok so Orca is..................?? Austackle ?

My crystal balls are in the shop getting polished and tuned-up,but i'll be sure to update my member dossier with this info....

As an aside, the "brand name" argument is a never ending merry-go-round no matter what sport/product you are talking about. Cars, bikes, shoes, clothes, rods, reels lines, lures...it doesnt matter....there are always 'marquee' brands that position themselves as a premium provider of said product/service. whether or not the value/superior quality or performance of the product is actually there is entirely the choice & opinion of the consumer.

People want to say "i drive a C200 Mercedes" just because it gets them hard, when they could have gotten more features, more warranty, more servicing and probably a better build to be honest (and half the cost) with say, a Hyundai i35.

Just like a fisho wants to say "my stella is spooled with varivas..." does it catch you more fish than a reel & line half the cost? probably not. but it has that porn factor to it. whether or not its the result of complete vanity or clever marketing, or a combination of both, is going to be different in every circumstance.

[Phoenixx]

It seems I may need to elaborate more on my previous message as the whole purpose of my message seems to have been missed.

Of course Orca is going to recommend the brand that they sell, same as Berkley would recommend Vanish and Diawa would recommend their tournament line of braids. You would have to be fairly naive to not think this. But to me Brand and price are the last thing I think about when purchasing fishing gear. more importantly is performance. I have many cheap ebay lures that most fisherman would screw their noses up at yet, they have out fished many "big brand" lures

What I was hoping for when i open this topic was more about variances in types of braids (not brands) i.e the different silicons and stuff that is sprayed onto braid and how this affected the performance (just to name one example)

I frequently surf a number of fishing forums and the questions asked are always what brand is best and of course everyone will have a different opinion and different brands of braid are better for different scenarios. But no one seems to be asking why a certain type of braid is better for certain conditions.

The number of strands in braid is a very valid point but is no good when browsing the many rolls of braid at you local tackle store as not many of them actually print this on their packaging.

My apologies to Orca if my previous post was taken as an attack. As mentioned, it was not meant that way.

[Travis]

mods need to put sponsor on peoples avatar instead of newbie etc

[Nitris]

Cheers Orca, i enjoyed the read. Got me thinking about the manufacturing process and what to keep an eye out for.

[Orca]

Cheers Orca, i enjoyed the read. Got me thinking about the manufacturing process and what to keep an eye out for.

Since writing the post and after reading a few of the responses i agree sometimes its hard to know what the Braid is actually made of and how many strands. Its probably reasonable to say if you have a braid package that says 100% Dyneema it is likely to be 8 strand because i dont think any manufacturer would waste their time using pure dyneema and only using 6 strand.

On another note, My understanding is that Fireline is not made of Dyneema but rather it is made from Spectra. I have no idea about the comparative merits of Spectra v Dyneema.

[Orca]

Cheers Orca, i enjoyed the read. Got me thinking about the manufacturing process and what to keep an eye out for.

Since writing the post and after reading a few of the responses i agree sometimes its hard to know what the Braid is actually made of and how many strands. Its probably reasonable to say if you have a braid package that says 100% Dyneema it is likely to be 8 strand because i dont think any manufacturer would waste their time using pure dyneema and only using 6 strand.

On another note, My understanding is that Fireline is not made of Dyneema but rather it is made from Spectra. I have no idea about the comparative merits of Spectra v Dyneema.

I just remeberede one other important thing. My comments about 8 strand are only valid for braids of 8lbs and above. The factory engineers tell me it is physically impossible to make the lighter lines in 8 strand

[Keen-as-fisho]

Cheers Orca, i enjoyed the read. Got me thinking about the manufacturing process and what to keep an eye out for.

Since writing the post and after reading a few of the responses i agree sometimes its hard to know what the Braid is actually made of and how many strands. Its probably reasonable to say if you have a braid package that says 100% Dyneema it is likely to be 8 strand because i dont think any manufacturer would waste their time using pure dyneema and only using 6 strand.

On another note, My understanding is that Fireline is not made of Dyneema but rather it is made from Spectra. I have no idea about the comparative merits of Spectra v Dyneema.

I just remeberede one other important thing. My comments about 8 strand are only valid for braids of 8lbs and above. The factory engineers tell me it is physically impossible to make the lighter lines in 8 strand

Would the lighter braids, under 8LB be made of 6 strands or possibly less? I use between 2 and 8LB mainly.

[Orca]

Cheers Orca, i enjoyed the read. Got me thinking about the manufacturing process and what to keep an eye out for.

Since writing the post and after reading a few of the responses i agree sometimes its hard to know what the Braid is actually made of and how many strands. Its probably reasonable to say if you have a braid package that says 100% Dyneema it is likely to be 8 strand because i dont think any manufacturer would waste their time using pure dyneema and only using 6 strand.

On another note, My understanding is that Fireline is not made of Dyneema but rather it is made from Spectra. I have no idea about the comparative merits of Spectra v Dyneema.

I just remeberede one other important thing. My comments about 8 strand are only valid for braids of 8lbs and above. The factory engineers tell me it is physically impossible to make the lighter lines in 8 strand

Would the lighter braids, under 8LB be made of 6 strands or possibly less? I use between 2 and 8LB mainly.

Under 8 pounds the braid is usually twisted rather than plaited so takes on a flatter shape

[Guest]

Thanks Orca Bro given me a few thinks to think about next time i buy some Braid :side:

[rayke1938]

Personally i found the post very informanative.

I have brought some of the cheap ebay braids and some of them are actually thicker than the equalivant mono.

My personal preferance is for the stiffer type as it is easier for my arthritic fingers to manouver.

I dont have any spools of any of the more expensive braids but the ones that I have of fireline,spiderwire,stren and basspro do not give the dynema content or nominate how many strands.

I wonder why.

Stren calls theirs a round braid.

Thanks Orca for an informanative post.

Cheers

Ray

[yoyo]

As Orca alluded to, i guess you then get into the argument of Spectra vs dyneema. Fireline is a GSP isnt it ? Gel spun ?

[Orca]

Personally i found the post very informanative.

I have brought some of the cheap ebay braids and some of them are actually thicker than the equalivant mono.

My personal preferance is for the stiffer type as it is easier for my arthritic fingers to manouver.

I dont have any spools of any of the more expensive braids but the ones that I have of fireline,spiderwire,stren and basspro do not give the dynema content or nominate how many strands.

I wonder why.

Stren calls theirs a round braid.

Thanks Orca for an informanative post.

Cheers

Ray

The eBay braids you refer to are obviously cotton blend hence the thickness. Having said that, some of the eBay braids are probably ok. The problem with eBay is how do you tell the good from the bad - its hard enough to tell in a tackle shop.

Cheers

Orca(Mike Cole)

[ryanyoung]

Cheers for the info Mike, some food for thought there.

Ryan.

[tiotony]

Very informative post. I must admit I'm a sucker for the 'big name' brands, as I automatically assumed they must be better.

Also I'm a big user of fireline on my threadlines, and braid on my overheads. Fireline must be gelspun as its so physically different to braid.

[Travis]

i use powerbraid, get it off ebay, rekkon its spot on

[Nitris]

i use powerbraid, get it off ebay, rekkon its spot on

i agree.. u just have to find the right one off ebay, just like any shop i guess.. and then its time for fishing..

[dhess]

Spectra = dyneema = PE.

Just different trademarks for the same material.

From memory americans tend to call polyethylene spectra whereas most other countries call it dyneema.

Personally I prefer the feel of 8 strand but have used plenty of other very good braids that are 6 strand that definitely have no coton in them. i.e. tuffline xp, bionic, suffix etc.

Interestingly I have read reports with lab testing comparing different braids and surprise, surprise not all braids of the same diameter and strand number construction are the same.

[big dave]

sunline.... that is all...

[Davo_Dinkum]

i found it a good informative read too .

of course he is going to refer to his product ,it what he sell and know the most about.

i have bought a few different types of braid ,from shops and ebay and what he was saying i have noticed in the different braid.

[bogan]

1. The site needs a rule where a sponsors Avatar reflects they are a sponsor.

2. I bought 300m of 20lb finns braid on special at bcf about 8 weeks ago for $39.95 I have had one bad knot twist that saw me loose about 30 metres of it, but apart from that, I've caught 2x the fish I think I would normally of caught.

What are the specs on Finns braid? Did I get ripped off even though it was on special?

Thanks

Bogan

[bogan]

1. The site needs a rule where a sponsors Avatar reflects they are a sponsor.

2. I bought 300m of 20lb finns braid on special at bcf about 8 weeks ago for $39.95 I have had one bad knot twist that saw me loose about 30 metres of it, but apart from that, I've caught 2x the fish I think I would normally of caught.

What are the specs on Finns braid? Did I get ripped off even though it was on special?

Thanks

Bogan

Sorry, I forgot to say I found it extremely informative and thank-you for the post Orca.

[Little Grey Men]

1. The site needs a rule where a sponsors Avatar reflects they are a sponsor.

2. I bought 300m of 20lb finns braid on special at bcf about 8 weeks ago for $39.95 I have had one bad knot twist that saw me loose about 30 metres of it, but apart from that, I've caught 2x the fish I think I would normally of caught.

What are the specs on Finns braid? Did I get ripped off even though it was on special?

Thanks

Bogan

Finns is good gear....you did well getting 300m for that price. I loaded a few baitcasters up with it years ago and have always found it to be a good dependable braid.