Fish ID Clarification

[Joycey67]

Hi ladies & gents.

Was out on the bay late last week & managed a few fish but more frustratingly a few questions...............Sorry to start an age old debate, but the more I read up the more I'm confused on this topic. I have read numerous spirited debates on this and other fishing forums regarding this topic, but what make & model in your opinions, is this fish? Grassy Emperor (legal size 30cm), Spangled Emperor (legal size 45cm) or Red Throat Emperor (legal size 38cm). Please feel free to correct me if any of the above is incorrect for starters..

For the record I believe it to be a Grass Emperor which leads to my next question. According to my species guide book I carry on board there is a common error made between the identification of a Grass Emperor & a Grass Sweetlip? I quote directly from the book, "Grass Emperor - This fish is often erroneously called a Grass Sweetlip. That could cost you dearly if you apply to it the smaller legal size for sweetlip (25cm) & are consequently caught with an undersized emperor".

I have trolled the most reliable source I know in the QLD GOV Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry website & cannot find anything relating to the Grass Sweetlip (not Grass Emperor) as a stand alone species with a legal size of 25cm on it own?????? What is the difference??

In fact the QLD GOV website actually refers to the Grass Emperor to be also commonly know as a Grassy Sweetlip which fly directly in the face of the above quoted extract?????

Damn I'm confused??? As I'm sure you will be reading my rabble above. Cheers for the replies in advance.

For the record I caught at least a dozen of these but didn't keep any for fear of misidentification. Photos attached are of 2 different fish.

[crazywalrus]

Grassy Emp and Grassy sweetlip are the same thing and both those are Grassies. They need to be 30cm. Easy mistake to make and one I made myself on my first outing .

[Joycey67]

Grassy Emp and Grassy sweetlip are the same thing and both those are Grassies. They need to be 30cm. Easy mistake to make and one I made myself on my first outing .

So why the publication in the book I wonder? Its a book nearly every fisho would have being a yearly publication. Just adds to the confusion in my opinion.

First paragraph??

[ellicat]

I concur with what craywalrus/Ted said. However, I understand if you may feel reticent to rely on info on a fishing forum, so I suggest you go to Fisheries direct.

They have a Facebook page if you're into FB - https://www.facebook.com/FisheriesQueensland?ref=profile

They would have an email address on their website too.

FB may be easier as you could include the pic above etc, others could learn as well.

I (and no doubt a few other members here) would love to hear/see the response from Fisheries.

[Joycey67]

I concur with what craywalrus/Ted said. However, I understand if you may feel reticent to rely on info on a fishing forum, so I suggest you go to Fisheries direct.

They have a Facebook page if you're into FB - https://www.facebook.com/FisheriesQueensland?ref=profile

They would have an email address on their website too.

FB may be easier as you could include the pic above etc, others could learn as well.

I (and no doubt a few other members here) would love to hear/see the response from Fisheries.

Don't get me wrong I concur with you both also. I've always presumed grassy sweetlip/emp to be one & the same! I am just miffed as to what the supposed difference is? If any? I

I'm not a Facebook man (mainly because I don't really care to hear that so & so's dog "coco" had a loose stool today & the inevitable question "should we take her to the vet? that follows. :dry: ) So I will try and chase up the QLD fisheries another way & post the results.

Cheers for the input gents.

[tazzy.]

I think what they are trying to say in the book is that if you size the fish is a sweetlip (because it is commonly known grassy sweetlip) and then assume that it has a limit of 25cm you would be wrong. This is grass emperor size limit 30cm.

The confusion is only in the name, not in actual identification.

[waldo]

Your two pics are of grass emperors, which by me and many others are better known as grassies or grassy sweetlip. They are for legal bag and size purposes Grass Emperors which are 30cm min 10 fish max. They throw a lot of dark reds and browns although can go almost white over sand or light coloured bottoms.

Spangled Emperor (45cm min 5 fish max) have a number of names as well. For me yellow sweetlip and spangled sweetlip. They have a lot of yellows and blues particlaurly around the head.

Red Throat Emperor (38cm min 8 fish max) usually just called red throat although sweetlip gets used pretty often with them also. They are pretty easy to tell from grassies in that where grassies usually have more brownish spotty dorsals and tails red throat are usually pretty red.

They are a bit like yellowtail kings/amberjack/samson or spotties/schoolies in that when you catch them together the differences are very easy to see. When just starting out a single fish can be confusing.

[dhess]

Everyone here has got it right. At the end of the day all that matters is the scientific name as common names for the same species vary by region.

Classic example is americans refering to Lutjanids (moses perch, fingermark, mangrove jack, red emperor et al) as snappers

[Old Scaley]

Everyone here has got it right. At the end of the day all that matters is the scientific name as common names for the same species vary by region.

Classic example is americans refering to Lutjanids (moses perch, fingermark, mangrove jack, red emperor et al) as snappers

And in Hervey Bay they used to call grassies coral bream. That would be a bit confusing for some people when trying to work out legal sizes.

[benno573]

i think what they are saying in the book is the grass emperor is not a member of the sweetlip family, despite its common/local name of grass sweetlip. In a lot of instances the common name for something could lead you astray on the legal size list.

The only "true" sweetlips commonly caught around brisbane are the painted sweetlips, the netted sweetlips, the gold spot sweetlips and the brown sweetlips all of which are from the same family and commonly/locally referred to variously as morwong, blubberlips, mother-in-law etc but on the legal sizes they all fall under the category of "sweetlip" as they come from the family of sweetlips.

alternatively, grass emperor, spangled emperor, red throat emperor and long nose emperor are all often referred to as sweetlip yet on the legal size list are individually listed by species, using the correct family (in Aust anyway) of emperor.

people refer to venus and purple tuskfish as "parrot" which again could get you into strife if you didn't know the anatomical differences between the two.

confused yet?

I would suggest investing in a grant's guide and study up on the common local species and get familiar with their other names. Not a cheap book but well worth the investment in my eyes. always best if you are in doubt to take a photo, let the fish go and do the research afterwards and know for next time. Fisheries officers are not often known to be understanding on the whole "I thought it was a ____"