Anybody Else Disappointed With The Way Rods Are Built And Sold Nowadays?

[Ed.]

BCF had a special on Abu Veritas 3.0 spinning rods a few days ago,  reduced from $170 down to $99.99, since everyone else has been selling them for about the $130-135 discounted price I figured it was a good enough, so went down to have a look, not that I needed another rod but I had been eyeing up that rod for over 12 months so just about to put it on layby when I decided to check for guide backbone alignment first, just as well I did as the guides were out by 90 degrees. The next one was fine, (picked it up today so don't know why I just didn't pick it up on the same day). Anyway I went to Anaconda today as I had about an hour to kill whilst waiting to pick up the missus from the gym and  as I was passing a rack of Shimano spinning rods one caught my eye as being odd, that one had the top 4 guides out by  180 degrees, in other words the top 4 guides were bound on top and the rest under the blank where they should be. Now I know that it wasn't supposed to be like that as the rest of the rods of that  model in the rack were bound correctly.

It looks like quality control seems to have gone out the window and the manufacturers don't care any more. Ugly Stik is another brand that also has issues sometimes as they seem to occasionally have two different spines on them so harder to align but the lack of attention to detail is spreading to other brands now. Does anyone else check the backbone/guide alignment before buying a rod? It is one of my pet gripes when buying a rod, the other one is missing patches of epoxy on the guide threads.

 

[Old Scaley]

Good tip @ED. I think I might be going in search of yet another rod that I want but don’t really need next week, so I will remember to check the spine.

[Brodie_S]

Yeah I always check a rod before I buy one I check the guides i check the backbone/alignment like you said I check the blank and the reel seat basically the whole rod for any damage or manufacturer failure usually most rods have a blemish or 2 on the blank but I don’t mind them as long as their not scratches or damage most blemishes aren’t sighs of damage of the rod but yeah idk if the quality control is bad these days usually it’s pretty good but I’m pretty sure they focus on the mid range to high end gear a lot more . I found shimano used to lack quality control in their reels I’ve heard stories and experienced some issues my self but shimano have stepped up their game a bit .now I have a sienna 2500 FG and it’s the best $50 spinning reel I’ve used. shimanos around this price after using them for a bit They develop annoying problems this hasn’t happen to me yet with my sienna  . I enjoy using my sienna as much as I enjoy my Stradic and speaking of stradics shimano fixed the ball bearing problems that The FK had shimano have really stepped up their game 

[Do$tylz]

QC is always a tough one when you are dealing with 100s/1000s of rods.

I think it has always been a problem, its just customers now have higher expectations. And we are probably seeing more problems because of the sheer numbers being manufactured. Also, for some of these rods, the margins are actually quite high when going from cost of manufacture to the time it gets to the customer hands.

Issues can come up in a number of different ways for rods throughout the manufacturing process. Parts, carbon pre-preg, epoxy, rolling, baking, guides, glue, shipping, storage etc.

Seems like such a simple thing to get right (line up the guides) but in a product that has so many components, suppliers and steps, it's understandable that there are occasional product issues.

As long as the company sorts out any manufacturing issues that you find as a customer, it should be ok.

[Andrew_P]

Yeah mate for this reason I’ve started building my own. Only problem it doubles your costs!

[Ed.]

I also try to build my own for the same reason where ever possible but sometimes it is not viable to do so due to time and cost, however in a labour intensive process such as thread binding the guides, there must be at least one person that has to physically do it or check it and that is where their QC falls down as these problem rods should not pass, I may be wrong but I don't think that it is all done by machine and you would think that large companies such as Shimano, Abu and Shakespeare etc.,  would ensure that someone checks the rods before shipment.

The biggest problem with building your own is the component costs and even access to the blanks, and if you are just building a rod  here and there, the blanks are expensive to buy and transport  assuming that you can even find a suitable blank in the first place. Half of my rods are custom builds and sometimes I buy a built one and redo the guides to suit if I particularly like the blank and there isn't much else wrong with it. But these issues shouldn't happen in the first place and all it does is gives the company a bad name.  Shimano in my opinion is the worst offender from what I have seen regarding quality control and I generally try to avoid their products in general. 

[ellicat]

 

 

[ellicat]

 

 

[Ed.]

So as I said before, and after watching these rods being made, and seeing they are all hand made, so how does a worker not realize that 4 of the guides are 180 degrees out  and continues finishing the rod, and then no one else checks their work. So end result is very poor quality control. The ones I saw should never have made it out of the factory let alone to a retail store.

[Drop Bear]

Thanks for the Videos @ellicat

[Drop Bear]

3 hours ago, Ed. said:

So as I said before, and after watching these rods being made, and seeing they are all hand made, so how does a worker not realize that 4 of the guides are 180 degrees out  and continues finishing the rod, and then no one else checks their work. So end result is very poor quality control. The ones I saw should never have made it out of the factory let alone to a retail store.

Its a sad reflection on manufacturing and retail pressures that we have today. 

[Guest]

On 31/10/2020 at 2:29 PM, Ed. said:

BCF had a special on Abu Veritas 3.0 spinning rods a few days ago,  reduced from $170 down to $99.99, since everyone else has been selling them for about the $130-135 discounted price I figured it was a good enough, so went down to have a look, not that I needed another rod but I had been eyeing up that rod for over 12 months so just about to put it on layby when I decided to check for guide backbone alignment first, just as well I did as the guides were out by 90 degrees. The next one was fine, (picked it up today so don't know why I just didn't pick it up on the same day). Anyway I went to Anaconda today as I had about an hour to kill whilst waiting to pick up the missus from the gym and  as I was passing a rack of Shimano spinning rods one caught my eye as being odd, that one had the top 4 guides out by  180 degrees, in other words the top 4 guides were bound on top and the rest under the blank where they should be. Now I know that it wasn't supposed to be like that as the rest of the rods of that  model in the rack were bound correctly.

It looks like quality control seems to have gone out the window and the manufacturers don't care any more. Ugly Stik is another brand that also has issues sometimes as they seem to occasionally have two different spines on them so harder to align but the lack of attention to detail is spreading to other brands now. Does anyone else check the backbone/guide alignment before buying a rod? It is one of my pet gripes when buying a rod, the other one is missing patches of epoxy on the guide threads.

 

For the last 20 something years I've only bought live fibre they have always been spot on but big Luke recently bought a diawa gen black which was questionable which is a bit weird considering the diawa gear is normally pretty flash. Maybe his was a Friday afternoon special 

[Brodie_S]

20 minutes ago, Sneaky1 said:

For the last 20 something years I've only bought live fibre they have always been spot on but big Luke recently bought a diawa gen black which was questionable which is a bit weird considering the diawa gear is normally pretty flash. Maybe his was a Friday afternoon special 

Yeah Daiwa is my favourite when it comes to rods even the cheaper rods feel really nice and daiwas rod’s usually have zero issues out of the factory. The arrowz rods by atomic are also really nice . But I’m not really a fan of shimano Rods I do own 1 shimano rod though it’s a viper FGX and i actually don’t mind using it. For my for rods I look at daiwa and atomic 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Breaming with bro said:

Yeah Daiwa is my favourite when it comes to rods even the cheaper rods feel really nice and daiwas rod’s usually have zero issues out of the factory. The arrowz rods by atomic are also really nice . But I’m not really a fan of shimano Rods I do own 1 shimano rod though it’s a viper FGX and i actually don’t mind using it. For my for rods I look at daiwa and atomic 

Yeah I know a couple guys that made the switch from the shimano raiders to the diawa rods ( Not sure which model ) but then you look at the boys from big angry fish , they switched from diawa to shimano. It's all a bit confusing I don't really know much about the atomics theirs so much to choose from now it's a bit hard to keep up

[Ed.]

I noticed that about the "Big Angry Fish" show but that was due to changing sponsers to Shimano from Daiwa, maybe Shimano made them an offer too good to refuse?, so not necessarily better gear just better dollars in their hands.

[Brodie_S]

10 hours ago, Sneaky1 said:

Yeah I know a couple guys that made the switch from the shimano raiders to the diawa rods ( Not sure which model ) but then you look at the boys from big angry fish , they switched from diawa to shimano. It's all a bit confusing I don't really know much about the atomics theirs so much to choose from now it's a bit hard to keep up

Yes there are so many rods to choose from these days . The main reason I prefer daiwa rods over Shimano’s is daiwa rods tend to few more sensitive and they recently upgraded their aird x rods and now they are even more sensitive I have a daiwa team Nero rod I got for $150 with a legalis LT was half price and the rod feels amazing and atomic rods are extremely good for the price if you can find them for under $120 I would highly recommend getting one they usually retail for $130-150 depending on the model. but they feel amazing compared to other rod’s in their price range i would rather buy a atomic rod over most rods their that good 

[Junky]

Stupid question but you sure it wasn't a 2 piece rod with the top half spun around? 

I ask beacuse I couldn't imagine the store person putting it on the shelf in that condition, or am I giving store people to much credit? 

They employ fisherpeople to look after the fishing gear don't they? 

[Old Scaley]

17 hours ago, Sneaky1 said:

For the last 20 something years I've only bought live fibre they have always been spot on but big Luke recently bought a diawa gen black which was questionable which is a bit weird considering the diawa gear is normally pretty flash. Maybe his was a Friday afternoon special 

@Sneaky1. Just wondering if one of the live fibres in your arsenal is the 6 to 8kg snapper rod (spin)? I am thinking of grabbing one this week to use for bigger snapper and the occasional toss at tuna if I can ever get them close enough. I haven’t had one in my hands yet but I have a live fibre 8kg 6 foot  baitcast barra rod that is beautiful to use so I am assuming the whole range is same quality.

[GregOug]

57 minutes ago, Old Scaley said:

@Sneaky1. Just wondering if one of the live fibres in your arsenal is the 6 to 8kg snapper rod (spin)? I am thinking of grabbing one this week to use for bigger snapper and the occasional toss at tuna if I can ever get them close enough. I haven’t had one in my hands yet but I have a live fibre 8kg 6 foot  baitcast barra rod that is beautiful to use so I am assuming the whole range is same quality.

My mate at BCF said the live fibres are now made overseas and aren’t worth buying

[Ed.]

2 hours ago, Junky said:

Stupid question but you sure it wasn't a 2 piece rod with the top half spun around? 

I ask because I couldn't imagine the store person putting it on the shelf in that condition, or am I giving store people to much credit? 

They employ fisher people to look after the fishing gear don't they? 

Not a stupid question at all, it was my first thought as well when I saw it. It actually was a 2 piece and that is why I noticed it, as the top 4 guides were on one way and the rest of the guides on the same top piece were on the opposite side. I actually did a double take on it as I thought surely not and that I must be seeing things! I know my eyesight is a bit bit dodgy but it's not that bad! Probably the store person didn't notice as they were probably just pulling out the rods out of whatever packaging it came in and just simply placed it in the rack and were just looking at the bottom of the rack to make sure the base of the rod fitted into the stand.

 

 

[Old Scaley]

1 hour ago, GregOug said:

My mate at BCF said the live fibres are now made overseas and aren’t worth buying

That’s quite possible @GregOug.  I will drop into my favourite tackle store and see what the go is. I know the venom range is made here but it is more expensive. The Wilson website says live fibres are designed in Australia but isn’t specific about where they are built. I am not hung up on buying Australian made, more interested in quality at a reasonable price. Thanks for the input. I will get some advice from the guys at the shop and go from there.

[GregOug]

18 minutes ago, Old Scaley said:

That’s quite possible @GregOug.  I will drop into my favourite tackle store and see what the go is. I know the venom range is made here but it is more expensive. The Wilson website says live fibres are designed in Australia but isn’t specific about where they are built. I am not hung up on buying Australian made, more interested in quality at a reasonable price. Thanks for the input. I will get some advice from the guys at the shop and go from there.

He just said the quality is not there any more since they moved manufacturing overseas. It’s a pity because I would love a new rod for reef fishing the bay.

[GregOug]

28 minutes ago, Ed. said:

 

Mate. That’s pretty pathetic. Obviously no quality control whatsoever!

[GregOug]

So. It’s not just me that stuffs everything up. I’m pretty sure Ed said something that I was replying to, but the site chose to not include it. Lol.

[Ed.]

And that is what I thought as well! Especially seeing as when you build a rod you have to check it countless times to make sure everything is lined up, so impossible not to notice something like that, but then the person doing it obviously didn't care care and continued, and then no further checks made by anyone else. It is a pity that I didn't take a photo of it. Might pop in  the next day or so and see if it is still there. What would that make it ...a "collectors item"?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Old Scaley said:

@Sneaky1. Just wondering if one of the live fibres in your arsenal is the 6 to 8kg snapper rod (spin)? I am thinking of grabbing one this week to use for bigger snapper and the occasional toss at tuna if I can ever get them close enough. I haven’t had one in my hands yet but I have a live fibre 8kg 6 foot  baitcast barra rod that is beautiful to use so I am assuming the whole range is same quality.

I have a 6-8 kg texalium I use for snapper it's great for using flesh baits with a circle hook but if your chasing tuna with lures the venoms the one you want. The new blade and tails are also awesome for flicking slugs at tuna Your welcome to come  out and have a look will be on my way back from Newcastle in the morning 

[GregOug]

5 minutes ago, Ed. said:

And that is what I thought as well! Especially seeing as when you build a rod you have to check it countless times to make sure everything is lined up, so impossible not to notice something like that, but then the person doing it obviously didn't care care and continued, and then no further checks made by anyone else. It is a pity that I didn't take a photo of it. Might pop in  the next day or so and see if it is still there. What would that make it ...a "collectors item"?

 I reckon buy it then contact the manufacturer and tell them your going public with it. Should at least get a free new rod out of it.

[GregOug]

9 minutes ago, Ed. said:

And that is what I thought as well! Especially seeing as when you build a rod you have to check it countless times to make sure everything is lined up, so impossible not to notice something like that, but then the person doing it obviously didn't care care and continued, and then no further checks made by anyone else. It is a pity that I didn't take a photo of it. Might pop in  the next day or so and see if it is still there. What would that make it ...a "collectors item"?

Imagine the poor bastard who buys it trying to rig it up! Lol

[GregOug]

3 minutes ago, Sneaky1 said:

I have a 6-8 kg texalium I use for snapper it's great for using flesh baits with a circle hook but if your chasing tuna with lures the venoms the one you want. The new blade and tails are also awesome for flicking slugs at tuna Your welcome to come  out and have a look will be on my way back from Newcastle in the morning 

Bloody hell. You get around! Brisbane, Hervey Bay, Newcastle. And all in the same day.

[GregOug]

7 minutes ago, Sneaky1 said:

I have a 6-8 kg texalium I use for snapper it's great for using flesh baits with a circle hook but if your chasing tuna with lures the venoms the one you want. The new blade and tails are also awesome for flicking slugs at tuna Your welcome to come  out and have a look will be on my way back from Newcastle in the morning 

I’ve never heard of a texama thingy but it sounds good. Where do you buy them?

[Old Scaley]

19 minutes ago, Sneaky1 said:

I have a 6-8 kg texalium I use for snapper it's great for using flesh baits with a circle hook but if your chasing tuna with lures the venoms the one you want. The new blade and tails are also awesome for flicking slugs at tuna Your welcome to come  out and have a look will be on my way back from Newcastle in the morning 

Thanks @Sneaky1. I would love a venom but can’t really justify the price. So many choices nowadays. Thanks for the offer but I will be right. Safe driving mate.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, GregOug said:

I’ve never heard of a texama thingy but it sounds good. Where do you buy them?

Texalium they stopped making them but I think mo tackle has a couple left in the gold series. Their great for bait fishing but the tips are a bit soft for flicking metal slugs. 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Old Scaley said:

Thanks @Sneaky1. I would love a venom but can’t really justify the price. So many choices nowadays. Thanks for the offer but I will be right. Safe driving 

All good , I'm not 100% sure if it's still there but bribie cycles and fishing had a live fibre classic on sale I almost grabbed  it but I'm running out of room on my rod rack

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

Hi Ed.

I do not buy enough rods to notice (I wish), but I do have an Abu Garcia Veritas and love it. Probably my favourite (or second favourite, only to my Ugly Stik 6'6") for getting the fish out of snags. 

Seeing a rod sold like that is a disgrace - people should know how to check and what they're checking for. I hope it just wasn't in there so someone could make a bit of an extra dollar. 

Cheers Hamish

[Guest]

2 hours ago, GregOug said:

Bloody hell. You get around! Brisbane, Hervey Bay, Newcastle. And all in the same day.

Nope havnt been to Hervey bay today left bribie at 415 stopped in Coffs for my first drop then Taree and hit Newcastle for my last drop at 430

[GregOug]

13 minutes ago, Sneaky1 said:

Nope havnt been to Hervey bay today left bribie at 415 stopped in Coffs for my first drop then Taree and hit Newcastle for my last drop at 430

I hope they’re paying you well.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, GregOug said:

I hope they’re paying you well.

Yeah i do alright ,  2 central coast runs in 1 week is equal to a fortnight of local work so I try and grab them when they pop up

[Ed.]

2 hours ago, AUS-BNE-FISHO said:

Hi Ed.

I do not buy enough rods to notice (I wish), but I do have an Abu Garcia Veritas and love it. Probably my favourite (or second favourite, only to my Ugly Stik 6'6") for getting the fish out of snags. 

Seeing a rod sold like that is a disgrace - people should know how to check and what they're checking for. I hope it just wasn't in there so someone could make a bit of an extra dollar. 

Cheers Hamish

The Veritas is a 922H so a longish one and 2 piece, I wanted it for lifting fish up from a break wall or rocks,  where you usually can't get too close to the water when you try to land a fish and that is frequently where I get it snagged in the rocks, so this will give me a bit of extra length to reach out  and over them and seeing as it is a 6-10kg one, it will be strong enough to lift a reasonable bream up out of the water.

Yep I also like my Ugly's, I have 9 of them. I will probably go to the shop tomorrow and will see if it is still there, and if so, I might show it to the store manager.

Ed.

 

[GregOug]

2 hours ago, Sneaky1 said:

Yeah i do alright ,  2 central coast runs in 1 week is equal to a fortnight of local work so I try and grab them when they pop up

I’d grab them too, at that rate!

[Andrew_P]

16 hours ago, Old Scaley said:

That’s quite possible @GregOug.  I will drop into my favourite tackle store and see what the go is. I know the venom range is made here but it is more expensive. The Wilson website says live fibres are designed in Australia but isn’t specific about where they are built. I am not hung up on buying Australian made, more interested in quality at a reasonable price. Thanks for the input. I will get some advice from the guys at the shop and go from there.

Hey Old Scaley,

I understand that the Venoms are the only line of Wilson rods built in Australia at the moment. I'm a big supporter of Aussie companies but was not impressed at all with the new Live Fibres i have seen. If you want quality at a reasonable price, try Gary Howard Reef Rumbler series. The 7 ft 8-15kg spin stick is a beautiful composite (graphite and glass like the old live fibres) rod that can cast a slug a mile and has a soft enough tip to floatline for snapper. They wont break the bank. Unfortunately it looks like Gary has moved some of his operations offshore too, there was a "Made in Vietnam" sticker on some of his rods at the local tackle store i looked at lately...  i'm not entirely sure if any of his rods are built in Brisbane but its kinda hard to justify building rods in Australia when they are no blank manufacturers left here. RIP Aussie manufacturing 

Another option is Gumtree. Have seen lots of good quality live fibres including Texalliums for sale recently.

p.s. If i was going to spend north of $500 on a fishing rod i would be speaking to a custom rod builder to ensure i got what i wanted.