Boycott Chinese products

[SuperHans]

Recent interference by the Chinese Communist Party in trade has been the last straw for me.

I have long been concerned about our close relationship with a one-party police state that executes political opponents or imprisons them in concentration camps. The Chinese Communist Party regime is increasingly belligerent, coerces ethnic Chinese overseas, ignores international law, ignores the rule of law, denies freedom of speech, uses slave labour, is a threat to the stability of the region, beggars vulnerable nations with debt, steals intellectual property, is responsible for cyber-attacks on Australia, actively spies on us, attempts to influence our democracy for its own ends, and corrupts our elected leaders.

There is also the issue of their fishing fleets pillaging the oceans around the Galapagos Islands and I'm not very comfortable with a proposed fish processing plant in PNG.

Whenever I shop now I look to see where the products was made and I boycott mainland Chinese products. I bought some tackle the other day that was made in Taiwan and other stuff from South Korea (both liberal democracies). Its a small start.

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

Agreed about the fishing. 

[Brodie_S]

Yeah I don’t buy any fishing gear from China . If China took stronger action against covid and didn’t try to cover it up at first The pandemic would probably be over by now . There are many things I don’t like about China’s government but the covid thing really piss’s me off 

[Kenne]

But the chinese do make nice dim sims

[Angry51]

Yeah Sneaky they might have a ticket but operators they're not. Anyone can drive

a forklift or truck but operating it is another thing. I did 40 years in heavy transport,

I've seen them all, and yeah dont be racist, you are not allowed to ask for compo for 

trailer damage.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Angry51 said:

Yeah Sneaky they might have a ticket but operators they're not. Anyone can drive

a forklift or truck but operating it is another thing. I did 40 years in heavy transport,

I've seen them all, and yeah dont be racist, you are not allowed to ask for compo for 

trailer 

My brother has since terminated our contract with them . I told the operator there  if he hits my roof with the headache rack again I was going to grab his pen and jam it in his eye. 

[SuperHans]

 

On 22/12/2020 at 12:55 PM, SuperHans said:

Its a small start.

Its a small start but as the chinese proverb goes,  "a journey of 1000 miles starts with one step".

I was recently helping my daughter look for a new car and we chose not to consider anything from mainland china. (Chery, Saic, Great Wall, etc)

Asked the Shaver Shop owner to show me only hair clippers not made in china. I paid a bit more for a product made in the US, and while they have their social problems, I'm not financially supporting a police state.

Glad to see that I'm not alone . 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9008177/Australian-businesses-BOYCOTT-China-refuse-use-products.html

[Angry51]

Good onya mate, every bit helps.

I've been doing it for a couple of years now.

But some times we have no choice.

Doesn't worry me that other makes are dearer, they are better quality.

 Happy shopping.

[Tacklejunkie.]

Just a heads up regarding China, there is a huge anti China campaign in motion at the moment, predominantly instigated by the US. This is due to the fact that the US can no longer compete with China economically, as is the same with Australia and most other non Asian countries and are trying to generate anti Chinese sentiment to affect their sales.

In the interests of increasing profits most businesses in most non Asian countries now have their manufacturing done in China and then assemble their products at home.  Many Australian companies do this so that they can add a made in Aus label. Most products you now buy would not be available without Chinese labour input.

Many of the things we are told about China through the media originate in the offices of the propaganda machine. My wife and I were in China 18 months ago and it is nothing like we expected. China does not have a political system run by an out of control communist dictator as we are led to believe, they have a Democratic Republic. The government encourages people to start their own businesses which is why you can find many different examples of the same item but at different quality levels. These are mostly small family businesses that are trying improve their quality of life to the standard we enjoy.

We spoke to many Chinese people while in China and none of them were unhappy with the way China has been governed since the late seventies. They were critical of the government before that time as they ran the country in the traditional communist fashion where everyone worked for the government and were on the same wage with no chance of advancement. They were also not critical about law enforcement in China, which surprised us, as we have been led to believe that China is controlled like  police State. We saw less police presence than we see in Australia.

Not buying Chinese products because you think it will do good is a false assumption, the only effect it will have is to reduce the living standard of Chinese families which is already well behind the lifestyle we have.

We need to reduce foreign ownership of Australian assets but we need to be consistent and stop all foreign ownership.  The Chinese are not a poor country, there are more millionaires in the city of Shanghai than there are in Australia and they are looking for places to invest in. Australia is attractive to them which is why they are buying up property here but they are not the only ones. There is a concerted campaign to stop Chinese buyers form buying our farmland but nothing about other countries. The Dutch actually own more Australian agricultural land than the Chinese but there is no anti Dutch campaign. We need to stop all foreign ownership of Australian assets.

If you want to do something that is constructive then lobby our government to stop selling our natural resources to foreign countries for a pittance and start taxing the companies that are raping Australia for profit. Lobby our government to stop the buy up of Australian assets by all countries. Lobby our government to stop the sell off of our water which is against our Constitution. Lobby our government to stop the gouging of the oil companies for profit, there are record stockpiles of oil at the moment due to people being unable to travel during covid yet the price of fuel is rapidly climbing for no other reason than to increase profits. Lobby our government to fix our problems and not deflect attention to other countries.

 

[Alan79]

34 minutes ago, Tacklejunkie. said:

Just a heads up regarding China, there is a huge anti China campaign in motion at the moment, predominantly instigated by the US. This is due to the fact that the US can no longer compete with China economically, as is the same with Australia and most other non Asian countries and are trying to generate anti Chinese sentiment to affect their sales.

In the interests of increasing profits most businesses in most non Asian countries now have their manufacturing done in China and then assemble their products at home.  Many Australian companies do this so that they can add a made in Aus label. Most products you now buy would not be available without Chinese labour input.

Many of the things we are told about China through the media originate in the offices of the propaganda machine. My wife and I were in China 18 months ago and it is nothing like we expected. China does not have a political system run by an out of control communist dictator as we are led to believe, they have a Democratic Republic. The government encourages people to start their own businesses which is why you can find many different examples of the same item but at different quality levels. These are mostly small family businesses that are trying improve their quality of life to the standard we enjoy.

We spoke to many Chinese people while in China and none of them were unhappy with the way China has been governed since the late seventies. They were critical of the government before that time as they ran the country in the traditional communist fashion where everyone worked for the government and were on the same wage with no chance of advancement. They were also not critical about law enforcement in China, which surprised us, as we have been led to believe that China is controlled like  police State. We saw less police presence than we see in Australia.

Not buying Chinese products because you think it will do good is a false assumption, the only effect it will have is to reduce the living standard of Chinese families which is already well behind the lifestyle we have.

We need to reduce foreign ownership of Australian assets but we need to be consistent and stop all foreign ownership.  The Chinese are not a poor country, there are more millionaires in the city of Shanghai than there are in Australia and they are looking for places to invest in. Australia is attractive to them which is why they are buying up property here but they are not the only ones. There is a concerted campaign to stop Chinese buyers form buying our farmland but nothing about other countries. The Dutch actually own more Australian agricultural land than the Chinese but there is no anti Dutch campaign. We need to stop all foreign ownership of Australian assets.

If you want to do something that is constructive then lobby our government to stop selling our natural resources to foreign countries for a pittance and start taxing the companies that are raping Australia for profit. Lobby our government to stop the buy up of Australian assets by all countries. Lobby our government to stop the sell off of our water which is against our Constitution. Lobby our government to stop the gouging of the oil companies for profit, there are record stockpiles of oil at the moment due to people being unable to travel during covid yet the price of fuel is rapidly climbing for no other reason than to increase profits. Lobby our government to fix our problems and not deflect attention to other countries.

 

Well said Tacklejunkie.

[Angry51]

Tacklejunkie, What you're saying is we should buy their products but

they dont need to buy ours.

That needs a bit of work.

[Tacklejunkie.]

1 hour ago, Angry51 said:

Tacklejunkie, What you're saying is we should buy their products but

they dont need to buy ours.

That needs a bit of work.

How did you possibly get that from my comment?

The reason China placed trade restrictions on some Australian products is because Australia chose to back the US in their dispute with China over sovereignty of the South China Sea. It's a dispute that has nothing to do with the US and nothing to do with us, it's all about control of the massive oil reserves there. The US is only attacking China over their stance there because it interferes with the aspirations of the multi national oil companies who want it for themselves. The American people have nothing to gain from the exercise, it is only the mega rich that would gain. It is the same scenario as in the Middle East, the American invasions cost the American taxpayers over seven trillion dollars and thousands of lives and they never received one cent of the trillions now being made from the oil companies that have claimed the oil. All they receive from the oil companies is rising fuel costs.

The Chinese people want to buy our products, they consider them the best in the world. If our government was not controlled in their decisions on foreign affairs just like the US we would have a great economic relationship with China. I will continue to buy Chinese products and products from any other country, I will not hold it against the Chinese people if other countries can't compete with them and I am sure they would buy our products unless prevented by politicians.

 

[Angry51]

I didn't mention mericar / mid east.

The chinese have stopped buying Aus products so I've

stopped buying chinese products.

Can't be too hard to fathom that.

You're free to buy where you like, so am I.

[SuperHans]

Communist China.xlsxHi Tackle Junkie,

I have not reacted merely to media reports; I love reading history (from Ancient Rome to the 20th Century) and I have seen this coming a long time ago.  Its not a matter of being influenced by the US, but I AM glad that they have woken up to the threat. So, no I am not a "Running dog of the imperialists"

I am not surprised that you couldn't find someone who would publicly criticise the government or the state police to a foreigner. Anyone  who criticises this totalitarian police state risks a 9mm lead injection behind the ear.

Yes, Communist Chinese manufacturing in now an integral part of many production lines. That doesn't mean we cannot try to limit it, nor support an alternative where possible. 

"China does not have a political system run by an out of control communist dictator as we are led to believe, they have a Democratic Republic". You cant be serious. Can you name one, JUST ONE, opposing political party????????

The Dutch MAY own a lot of land here, but they aren't an economic, political or military threat western democracies. This is not about race, its about a powerful belligerent neighbour run by a totalitarian regime that has demonstrated many times for over 70 years the number of corpses it will walk over to retain control of its people. 

 Not too long ago Communist China made an abrupt change in direction from the spread of world socialism to state directed capitalism. This was designed to prevent hungry desperate chinese from tossing the Communist party out via revolution. (Ancient Romans knew that Bread and Circuses were the way to keep the proles quiet) Yes, the peasants' standard of living has improved, but at what cost to their rights, to the environment and to other countries? Along with permission for limited economic freedom, the regime focussed on chinese nationalism/racism/pride. It emphasised, and still does, the wrongs done to China by foreign devils in the Imperial (lol) period. It is a useful and very effective tool because China WAS weak and vulnerable to invasion in the past (opium wars, rape of nanking etc), but also because it taps into the very powerful nationalism of the chinese. (They DO have a lot to be proud of btw, a 5k year old history with many innovations. In contrast 2k years ago the british were running around half naked and painting themselves blue). Nothing unites a people, even under unpopular leaders, like Us V THEM. eg Thatcher gained a massive boost due to the Falkland War. 

Communist Chinese aggression (internal and external) has a long history.

As someone a lot smarter than I said "If we don't learn the lessons of  history we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes".

The list on the spread sheet is not exhaustive, nor are the examples given.

 

 

 

Communist China.xlsx

[Brodie_S]

Yeah I’d rather not buy products made in China especially fishing gear . Mainly because a lot of stuff from China is poor made not so much of China itself although I don’t like chinas government and political system 

[Tacklejunkie.]

27 minutes ago, SuperHans said:

Communist China.xlsxHi Tackle Junkie,

I have not reacted merely to media reports; I love reading history (from Ancient Rome to the 20th Century) and I have seen this coming a long time ago.  Its not a matter of being influenced by the US, but I AM glad that they have woken up to the threat. So, no I am not a "Running dog of the imperialists"

I am not surprised that you couldn't find someone who would publicly criticise the government or the state police to a foreigner. Anyone  who criticises this totalitarian police state risks a 9mm lead injection behind the ear.

Yes, Communist Chinese manufacturing in now an integral part of many production lines. That doesn't mean we cannot try to limit it, nor support an alternative where possible. 

"China does not have a political system run by an out of control communist dictator as we are led to believe, they have a Democratic Republic". You cant be serious. Can you name one, JUST ONE, opposing political party????????

The Dutch MAY own a lot of land here, but they aren't an economic, political or military threat western democracies. This is not about race, its about a powerful belligerent neighbour run by a totalitarian regime that has demonstrated many times for over 70 years the number of corpses it will walk over to retain control of its people. 

 Not too long ago Communist China made an abrupt change in direction from the spread of world socialism to state directed capitalism. This was designed to prevent hungry desperate chinese from tossing the Communist party out via revolution. (Ancient Romans knew that Bread and Circuses were the way to keep the proles quiet) Yes, the peasants' standard of living has improved, but at what cost to their rights, to the environment and to other countries? Along with permission for limited economic freedom, the regime focussed on chinese nationalism/racism/pride. It emphasised, and still does, the wrongs done to China by foreign devils in the Imperial (lol) period. It is a useful and very effective tool because China WAS weak and vulnerable to invasion in the past (opium wars, rape of nanking etc), but also because it taps into the very powerful nationalism of the chinese. (They DO have a lot to be proud of btw, a 5k year old history with many innovations. In contrast 2k years ago the british were running around half naked and painting themselves blue). Nothing unites a people, even under unpopular leaders, like Us V THEM. eg Thatcher gained a massive boost due to the Falkland War. 

Communist Chinese aggression (internal and external) has a long history.

As someone a lot smarter than I said "If we don't learn the lessons of  history we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes".

The list on the spread sheet is not exhaustive, nor are the examples given.

 

 

 

Communist China.xlsx 10.21 kB · 13 downloads

I can tell from your post that you have not been to China mate, your beliefs are similar to what mine were before our visit there. I had based my beliefs on what I had read and the reality is that most of what I read was false. 

I am not going to argue against a propaganda machine that openly admits to spending billions of dollars a year, to do so would be futile, I can only relay what I saw and heard when there.

We were with a group of American tourists for our stay there, they were paranoid before we arrived and said we would be followed by Chinese security everywhere we went and there would be cameras on every corner so they could keep track of our movements. They were in fear of being arrested on false chargers and locked up. They, like us, expected the Chinese people to be downtrodden, poor and very unhappy whereas the truth could not have been any further from that. Everyone we spoke to were very open about life in China, nobody I spoke to was under any duress and in a city of 27 million people I saw nothing to make me think that life there is much different from most big cities.

We caught one of their subways to an outlying suburb, we were told there was a good market there and thought the experience of travelling on their public transport would be interesting. Nothing was different out there, their transport system makes ours look antiquated. What was very noticeable was that everyone was well dressed and almost everyone had their faces in a mobile phone. A local informed us in broken English that most of the people were checking their status on their social media platform similar to Facebook. Our trip back to our accommodation was during their peak hour, that was interesting, standing room only and it would have been difficult to fit one more person in the train but when the doors open everyone disperses so fast your would be carried with them if you don't keep up.

China is portrayed by the Americans as a threat to the West, just like they portrayed the Russians were during the cold war despite common sense telling us that no country would attack the US or any other western country as the consequences would have been total destruction of their country. China is not a threat to anyone, they spend a fraction of their budget on the military compared to the US and if you check their arsenal it is nearly all devoted to defence, not attack. Compare that to the US who spend the majority of their defence budget on developing attacking weapons and things become clearer.

If you are a fan of history as you say then you would be aware that China has been attacked many times by many countries, always being unable to defend themselves because they are not a warlike people. China have only recently armed themselves to prevent that happening again. If you want to know where the real threat is then use your knowledge of history (or google) to find which countries have a history of attacking other countries.

If you get the chance to go to China after this pandemic is over I suggest you take it, we have been to over 35 countries and though China would not be my favourite it was definitely interesting and nothing like we expected.

[Brodie_S]

I can understand you visited China . China is a massive place and has a lot of nice places in it but most of China isn’t really that great . I doubt what @SuperHanswas saying is false I recall my mother talking about one of her friends moved to China and by the sounds of it China sounds very controlling just like a communist country is . China also tried covering up covid and made it a lot bigger then what it could have been because of it . There is also some evidence showing that covid was made in a lab then China lied about the market on top of that but that is just a theory and I doubt It’s been actually proven so whether that’s true or not idk . Bottom of the line is I don’t think chinas government is as great as you say it is no government system is perfect but There are better government systems then chinas 

[Drop Bear]

5 hours ago, Tacklejunkie. said:

Just a heads up regarding China, there is a huge anti China campaign in motion at the moment, predominantly instigated by the US. This is due to the fact that the US can no longer compete with China economically, as is the same with Australia and most other non Asian countries and are trying to generate anti Chinese sentiment to affect their sales.

In the interests of increasing profits most businesses in most non Asian countries now have their manufacturing done in China and then assemble their products at home.  Many Australian companies do this so that they can add a made in Aus label. Most products you now buy would not be available without Chinese labour input.

Many of the things we are told about China through the media originate in the offices of the propaganda machine. My wife and I were in China 18 months ago and it is nothing like we expected. China does not have a political system run by an out of control communist dictator as we are led to believe, they have a Democratic Republic. The government encourages people to start their own businesses which is why you can find many different examples of the same item but at different quality levels. These are mostly small family businesses that are trying improve their quality of life to the standard we enjoy.

We spoke to many Chinese people while in China and none of them were unhappy with the way China has been governed since the late seventies. They were critical of the government before that time as they ran the country in the traditional communist fashion where everyone worked for the government and were on the same wage with no chance of advancement. They were also not critical about law enforcement in China, which surprised us, as we have been led to believe that China is controlled like  police State. We saw less police presence than we see in Australia.

Not buying Chinese products because you think it will do good is a false assumption, the only effect it will have is to reduce the living standard of Chinese families which is already well behind the lifestyle we have.

We need to reduce foreign ownership of Australian assets but we need to be consistent and stop all foreign ownership.  The Chinese are not a poor country, there are more millionaires in the city of Shanghai than there are in Australia and they are looking for places to invest in. Australia is attractive to them which is why they are buying up property here but they are not the only ones. There is a concerted campaign to stop Chinese buyers form buying our farmland but nothing about other countries. The Dutch actually own more Australian agricultural land than the Chinese but there is no anti Dutch campaign. We need to stop all foreign ownership of Australian assets.

If you want to do something that is constructive then lobby our government to stop selling our natural resources to foreign countries for a pittance and start taxing the companies that are raping Australia for profit. Lobby our government to stop the buy up of Australian assets by all countries. Lobby our government to stop the sell off of our water which is against our Constitution. Lobby our government to stop the gouging of the oil companies for profit, there are record stockpiles of oil at the moment due to people being unable to travel during covid yet the price of fuel is rapidly climbing for no other reason than to increase profits. Lobby our government to fix our problems and not deflect attention to other countries.

 

Well said mate. UK and USA owns heaps of Australian land and water.

[SuperHans]

Hi TJ,

no, I haven't been to Communist China, and I don't plan to. I WOULD like to visit Taiwan however to see how mainland China could have been without a police state since 1949.

I'm not a propaganda machine, and I support my position with diverse sources and examples. Try reading some pre revolutionary Chinese history, its fascinating (and predates any perceived plot by the USA).

The Soviet Union WAS a threat to the west, especially to western Europe. Mutually Assured Destruction was the reason that the Cold War never heated up, not the belated realisation that the USSR was a benevolent fluffy force for good.

Communist China IS a threat to the West and a sight-seeing tour does not prove otherwise. A pre-war sight seeing tour of Nazi Germany would likewise be pleasant- they put up a great show of harmony during the 1936 Olympics (anti-semitism was toned down temporarily and concentration camps were operating then but were off limits). It has a long track record of aggression-from attacking United Nations troops in the Korean War because the north was getting its arse kicked and the CCP didn't like the prospect of a democratic neighbour, to their current activities including coercing the diaspora, cyber attacks, bribing our politicians, occupying the  Spratley Islands and so on. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-22/philippines-chinese-boats-south-china-sea/100020278

"If you are a fan of history as you say then you would be aware that China has been attacked many times by many countries, always being unable to defend themselves because they are not a warlike people."

Lol. So untrue. It has attacked Japan (Kublai Khan), Korea, Manchuria, and for hundreds of years held south east asian nations such as Viet Nam as vassal states that were required to give tribute to China. The alternative......war.

Internally there was even a time know as the "Warring States" period. In fact the Chinese made such an art of warfare that they literally wrote the book on it ("The Art of War" by Sun Tzu which is still referenced in military academies today).

Just tell the Tibetans, and the Uighers that their genocide is a figment of their imagination and that peace loving Communist Chinese are there to help. Just be grateful that you don't have to live as one of them.

Communist China.xlsx

[SuperHans]

PS you didn't give an example of an opposition political party in this workers' paradise. Cant wait.

[Tacklejunkie.]

2 hours ago, Breaming with bro said:

I can understand you visited China . China is a massive place and has a lot of nice places in it but most of China isn’t really that great . I doubt what @SuperHanswas saying is false I recall my mother talking about one of her friends moved to China and by the sounds of it China sounds very controlling just like a communist country is . China also tried covering up covid and made it a lot bigger then what it could have been because of it . There is also some evidence showing that covid was made in a lab then China lied about the market on top of that but that is just a theory and I doubt It’s been actually proven so whether that’s true or not idk . Bottom of the line is I don’t think chinas government is as great as you say it is no government system is perfect but There are better government systems then chinas 

An American virologist came out last March and named the lab in the US where the covid virus was developed and said the virus was then transported to the Wuhan lab which is jointly funded by the US. She also named three American virologists that were part of the team that developed it. She has not been sued by either the lab or the three virologists. This might explain why both the US and China refused to support Australia's request for an inquiry into the origins of the virus. That report has just been completed and the investigators reported they received no support rom any authorities but concluded the virus was a release from the Wuhan lab and not a natural occurrence.

China's government has to deal with two billion people, most major Chinese cities have more people than the whole of Australia. Compared to Australia China has limited natural resources which is why they need to be economically viable with manufacturing. If you look at China's history their government is doing an amazing job, their development in the last 50 years makes every other country's economy look sick. Did you know that everyone in China, man or woman, receives an aged pension at 60 years old? In Australia it will soon be 70 and a great many people still wont qualify then.

There is no perfect government system, the system in the US is probably the worst. Politicians spend all their time soliciting bribes under the banner of "political donations", this leads to political decisions not in the best interests of the people. Look up the cost of a covid test in the US and you will see what their system has denigrated into. Australia's system is better but is still controlled by big business which is why most of the big companies pay no tax and why we blindly follow the US in invasions of other countries.

[Angry51]

I think you've got it,whatever it is.

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

A bit of a polite debate here - good to read on!

Though I must say some of this goes over my head

Cheers Hamish

[Brodie_S]

1 hour ago, AUS-BNE-FISHO said:

A bit of a polite debate here - good to read on!

Though I must say some of this goes over my head

Cheers Hamish

Yes tbh politics is very confusing and boring but it can be interesting sometimes 

[SuperHans]

I forgot to mention another ancient classic of the peace loving Chinese. "The Art of War" is a great read and a wonderful insight into how war is conducted by the Chinese, but "The 36 Stratagems" is another, and I hope is compulsory reading for politicians and diplomats dealing with China. I chuckle to myself and try to tick off which stratagem is being used when mainland China makes the news. 

Enjoy!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-Six_Stratagems#Deceive_the_heavens_to_cross_the_sea_(瞞天過海,_Mán_tiān_guò_hǎi)

[bigkingie]

On 24/03/2021 at 11:37 AM, Tacklejunkie. said:

How did you possibly get that from my comment?

The reason China placed trade restrictions on some Australian products is because Australia chose to back the US in their dispute with China over sovereignty of the South China Sea. It's a dispute that has nothing to do with the US and nothing to do with us, it's all about control of the massive oil reserves there. The US is only attacking China over their stance there because it interferes with the aspirations of the multi national oil companies who want it for themselves. The American people have nothing to gain from the exercise, it is only the mega rich that would gain. It is the same scenario as in the Middle East, the American invasions cost the American taxpayers over seven trillion dollars and thousands of lives and they never received one cent of the trillions now being made from the oil companies that have claimed the oil. All they receive from the oil companies is rising fuel costs.

The Chinese people want to buy our products, they consider them the best in the world. If our government was not controlled in their decisions on foreign affairs just like the US we would have a great economic relationship with China. I will continue to buy Chinese products and products from any other country, I will not hold it against the Chinese people if other countries can't compete with them and I am sure they would buy our products unless prevented by politicians.

 

I have never heard of there being 'massive oil reserves' in the South China Sea. And we have the right to speak up on matter of international laws and norms. An international tribunal ruled that China didn't have a claim over the islands there and China responded by militarising them.  

China is punishing our trade because they were trying to Finlandise us. Instead we made moves to shore up our sovereignty against their cyber attacks, bribery and influence operation. If you think there is any doubt about this then just look at the list of 14 demands they issued.

[bigkingie]

On 24/03/2021 at 5:42 PM, Tacklejunkie. said:

An American virologist came out last March and named the lab in the US where the covid virus was developed and said the virus was then transported to the Wuhan lab which is jointly funded by the US. She also named three American virologists that were part of the team that developed it. She has not been sued by either the lab or the three virologists. This might explain why both the US and China refused to support Australia's request for an inquiry into the origins of the virus. That report has just been completed and the investigators reported they received no support rom any authorities but concluded the virus was a release from the Wuhan lab and not a natural occurrence.

China's government has to deal with two billion people, most major Chinese cities have more people than the whole of Australia. Compared to Australia China has limited natural resources which is why they need to be economically viable with manufacturing. If you look at China's history their government is doing an amazing job, their development in the last 50 years makes every other country's economy look sick. Did you know that everyone in China, man or woman, receives an aged pension at 60 years old? In Australia it will soon be 70 and a great many people still wont qualify then.

There is no perfect government system, the system in the US is probably the worst. Politicians spend all their time soliciting bribes under the banner of "political donations", this leads to political decisions not in the best interests of the people. Look up the cost of a covid test in the US and you will see what their system has denigrated into. Australia's system is better but is still controlled by big business which is why most of the big companies pay no tax and why we blindly follow the US in invasions of other countries.

Al the evidence points to a natural origin for Covid (jumping from another species). Also the income per person in China is many times below that of the US:

"Due to vast population of China, more than 4 times of US's population, difference between these two country is very high in terms of per capita income. Per capita income of United States is 6.38 and 3.32 times greater than of China in nominal and PPP terms, respectively. US is the 8th richest country of the world whereas China comes at 72th rank. On PPP basis, United states is at 12th position and China is at 75th".

[SuperHans]

Hi Big Kingie,

I agree. The number of millionaires in Shanghai compared to those in the US is a useless statistic.

It should be about average wealth of the mainland chinese population.. Its also a mistake to compare china against the US as the vast bulk of US assets is owned by an incredibly small percentage of the population. Maybe a better indicator of the success/failure of the mainland's police state would be the average wealth of mainland chinese against the average wealth of the Taiwanese people.

Another flaw in the argument that mainland china is a thriving 'Democratic Republic' is the the recent decree that Xi Jin Ping is now President for life (aka emperor or dictator).

Four to 5 years ago I read about ethical superannuation investment strategies which usually focus on industries and businesses that were green etc. I approached my super providor and arranged a strategy that limited by exposure to mainland china and other authoritarian regimes. It means that I am less likely to take a financial hit when the Chinese Communist Party has a tantrum and lashes out, and I also feel better knowing that I am not supporting such a government.

Please note that this is not about the people of china or about race. I feel so sorry for people who live under such conditions, and they are unable to speak out themselves, so I think it is our moral duty to do the little that we can in the hope that it may have some effect.

I have used several famous quotes in this thread, not to be a smart arse, but because I think they illustrate or summarise things accurately and in so few words.

Here is one that I truly believe:

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” – Edmund Burke.