Is this salt or rust on my trailer? (and is this crack a concern)

[Ryannnnnnnn]

Hey guys, 

I felt that I gave my boat and galv trailer a very thorough wash after using it last. Cleaned the whole thing from top to bottom, giving the trailer special attention. About a week or so later when I saw my boat again I noticed these white spots all over the trailer, and am wondering if its just salt or white rust? Have attached images. 

My trailer has been painted with tectyl 506 as well about a month or two ago. 

Have also attached a close up of a weld on the trailer, is this concerning for a brand new trailer? Hope you can make out the crack (pointed to with orange arrows) that goes across each weld. 

With this last image, these dark grey spots have been there for a while. I had to apply tectyl in stages over two weekends. Does it look like corrosion has occurred here on the part that hadn't been coated yet? 

 

Cheers! 

[kmcrosby78]

I don't have the knowledge to help you unfortunately @Ryannnnnnnn but found this info via a quick web search:  http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/archive/index.php/t-147083.html

The close up of the weld certainly doesn't look real great to me for a brand new trailer - I'd be asking some questions. Where on the trailer is it?

[Junky]

That's white rust mate. 

I am convinced that galvanizing today is just garbage. 

 

 

My trailer did just this, but 2yrs into owning it. Yours is brand new. Same brand too I believe, same trailer. 

 

I ended up slipping the boat onto 4 wheel drive tyres, stripping trailer completly and getting stuck into it with a wire wheel on the cordless drill. It's a mission and I went through several wire wheels and battery recharges but it cleaned all that crap off. 

Problem is it takes it back to metal in the places where this white rust formed.

I coated those areas with straight penatrol, brushed on. Bunnings sells it. I love the stuff for steel protection. Works great imo.

After the penatrol dried (overnight) I then sprayed cold galv over it. 

Once gold gal had dried I mixed white knight structural steel silver rust paint  70/30 with penatrol and spray painted nearly the whole trailer, minus draw bar. 

Then I covered it completely in tectyl 506. 

 

Nearly 12mths ago, several k's, lots of dunkings with no indication of white rust....or any rust for that matter, but I will still slip the boat and go over with tectyl again soon, before Easter. 

 

 

 

As for the welds, that's terrible. 

You bought brand new. Maybe a trip back to the dealer for inspection. 

 

 

 

[Ryannnnnnnn]

Hey @kmcrosby78 thanks for that link it was a very interesting read indeed. The crack is on the forward most horizontal bar that is welded to the main frame

[Drop Bear]

Mate that crack looks pretty bad. I would be taking that back for sure. It looks very likely that rust will get in there and it could be dangerous. 

[Ed.]

That weld will need to be cleaned out and re-welded, take it back to where you bought it and get them to fix it.

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

Hi Ryan

I guess I learn something new everyday - I never knew there was such thing as 'White Rust'. 

Cheers Hamish

P.S. I would bring it back and ask them about it. Reading the great replies above that seems the way to go  

[Ryannnnnnnn]

Thanks for that guys. Will get ahold of the dealer Im not happy about that crack. Appreciate the detailed guidance @Junky looks like my coat of tectyl might not be enough

[GregOug]

Hi @Ryannnnnnnn when you say the trailer is new, how new is it exactly, and what is the brand?

[Ryannnnnnnn]

Hey @GregOug I got the trailer about 2 months ago and has been used probably about 4 or 5 times. It's a dunbier loader pro

[GregOug]

1 hour ago, Ryannnnnnnn said:

Hey @GregOug I got the trailer about 2 months ago and has been used probably about 4 or 5 times. It's a dunbier loader pro

Well, that has me worried then. Mine’s a Dunbier as well. Although it has none of those concerns yet. I’d be taking it back for more than just the weld. That’s ridiculous. If mine goes like that I’ll be demanding my money back and going elsewhere!

[GregOug]

Hi @Ryannnnnnnn. Do you store your trailer under cover or outside? Found the following item about white rust and it appears to be saying galvanising needs time to develop protective oxides, which can be interfered with by pure water such as rain.

https://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=1220

[Ryannnnnnnn]

Hey @GregOug thanks for that article that was interesting. The trailer is always stored in a shed and is washed with rain water. I'm baffled as to how any water has penetrated through the tectyl - perhaps the application is too thin? It was applied with a paint brush and had days to cure before seeing any salt water. 

Dunbier has agreed to fix the weld, and from the few images they believe there was moisture stuck in between the surface and the application of tectyl.. However I made sure it was cleaned throughly and waited days between washing when applying the tectyl, and did it in the afternoon to avoid possibility of dew on the surface.

They have advised to immediately remove the tectyl from trailer. Not sure how I would even do that. 

When touching the rust it's powdery to touch

 

This is the worst part of the trailer, right up the back 

 

[GregOug]

34 minutes ago, Ryannnnnnnn said:

Hey @GregOug thanks for that article that was interesting. The trailer is always stored in a shed and is washed with rain water. I'm baffled as to how any water has penetrated through the tectyl - perhaps the application is too thin? It was applied with a paint brush and had days to cure before seeing any salt water. 

I think your problem is that you washed it with rainwater. The article says the zinc only reacts with pure water, in your case, the rain water. Town water is not pure and is thus okay. 

[Ryannnnnnnn]

26 minutes ago, GregOug said:

1 hour ago, Ryannnnnnnn said:

Hey @GregOug thanks for that article that was interesting. The trailer is always stored in a shed and is washed with rain water. I'm baffled as to how any water has penetrated through the tectyl - perhaps the application is too thin? It was applied with a paint brush and had days to cure before seeing any salt water. 

I think your problem is that you washed it with rainwater. The article says the zinc only reacts with pure water, in your case, the rain water. Town water is not pure and is thus okay. 

Expand  

Could be on the money there @GregOug thanks for the help troubleshooting

[GregOug]

9 minutes ago, Ryannnnnnnn said:

Could be on the money there @GregOug thanks for the help troubleshooting

I hope you can sort it all out without too much angst.

[Hweebe]

Yeah really disappointing to see that you have done all the research in keeping the maintenance up but still having issues.

@Junky is onto it, a gal trailer nowdays is just not as good as ones done from say a decade ago.

It is unfortunately all about making a buck, the cynic in me thinks the industry is trying to push boaties onto more expensive alloy / aluminium trailers so they don't spend the time/dollars on producing quality Gal trailers.

[Haz91a]

I’ve got the same stuff on my dunbier trailer which is brand new ( 32 hours on the boat now ) trailer is always thoroughly washed after use as well 

[GregOug]

1 hour ago, Haz91a said:

I’ve got the same stuff on my dunbier trailer which is brand new ( 32 hours on the boat now ) trailer is always thoroughly washed after use as well 

Washed with what. Town water or other water? Trying to get to the bottom of this.

[Haz91a]

7 minutes ago, GregOug said:

Washed with what. Town water or other water? Trying to get to the bottom of this.

Sorry mate I should’ve mentioned I wash it with town water, it is stored outside. 

[GregOug]

29 minutes ago, Haz91a said:

Sorry mate I should’ve mentioned I wash it with town water, it is stored outside. 

Ah. Outside. Rain water! I think that is definitely the problem.

[Haz91a]

2 minutes ago, GregOug said:

Ah. Outside. Rain water! I think that is definitely the problem.

I would like to think that they could withstand rain water haha but who knows, I find it weird that it wasn’t like it when I bought it, surely the trailers are premade and sit out in the elements prior to being sold. 

[GregOug]

Hi Haz,

Read the article carefully and thoroughly. The zinc coating on newly galvanised surfaces is highly reactive. Over time the zinc reacts with carbon dioxide to form a protective film over the surface. If, however, the zinc is exposed to pure H2O (water), the zinc reacts with it instead and forms the white rust you are experiencing. The solution is set out in the article. I have included relevant extracts below, and bolded the most important sections. Hopefully this will be of some help.

 Zinc’s durability is established by the stable oxides that form on the surface of this element and these oxides form slowly as zinc is exposed to air. Mostly, carbon dioxide contributes to the formation of these stable oxides.
 

The freshly galvanized steelwork makes zinc’s surface extremely susceptible since it has been exposed to some level of oxidation.
 

Pure water (H₂O) does not contain any dissolved salts or minerals, and will react swiftly with zinc to form zinc hydroxide—a bulky white and moderately unstable oxide of zinc. When newly galvanized steel is exposed to pure water (for example, rain, dew, or condensation) in an oxygen-deficient setting, the water will continue to react with zinc and slowly corrode the coating.

After the galvanized surface has been compromised and the zinc hydroxide compounds have developed, it is better to remove the oxide products from the surface, as:

• Their presence stops the development of stable carbonate-based oxides
• They are unappealing

Severe White Rusting

Severe white rusting is characterized by extremely heavy oxide deposits. The products may be fixed together. Regions under the oxidized area may be almost black, and display signs of red rust. The degree to which the galvanized coating has been damaged can be established by checking the thickness of the coating. Remedial treatment to restore the coating should be performed as given below:

• The affected region should be buffed or wire brushed, to remove all oxidation products and rust
• One or two coatings of approved epoxy zinc-rich paint should be applied, to achieve the necessary dry film thickness of at least 100 µm.

cheers

Greg

 

 

[kmcrosby78]

Great research and assistance there @GregOug.  If I bought a brand new trailer and it was rusting just from rain water I wouldn't be real happy. @Haz91a, you said you are storing it outside, which therefore shouldn't be an issue according to this info from Greg:  Pure water (H₂O) does not contain any dissolved salts or minerals, and will react swiftly with zinc to form zinc hydroxide—a bulky white and moderately unstable oxide of zinc. When newly galvanized steel is exposed to pure water (for example, rain, dew, or condensation) in an oxygen-deficient setting, the water will continue to react with zinc and slowly corrode the coating.

 

Unless the dealer put large stickers on the trailer saying 'Caution, don't let rain fall on this brand new trailer' I would be asking some serious questions. Note I'm not an expert on this and could be wrong, but it just doesn't seem right to me that it is OK to expect this from a brand new trailer.

[Haz91a]

A google search came up with this, last paragraph. 

[GregOug]

48 minutes ago, kmcrosby78 said:

Great research and assistance there @GregOug.  If I bought a brand new trailer and it was rusting just from rain water I wouldn't be real happy. @Haz91a, you said you are storing it outside, which therefore shouldn't be an issue according to this info from Greg:  Pure water (H₂O) does not contain any dissolved salts or minerals, and will react swiftly with zinc to form zinc hydroxide—a bulky white and moderately unstable oxide of zinc. When newly galvanized steel is exposed to pure water (for example, rain, dew, or condensation) in an oxygen-deficient setting, the water will continue to react with zinc and slowly corrode the coating.

 

Unless the dealer put large stickers on the trailer saying 'Caution, don't let rain fall on this brand new trailer' I would be asking some serious questions. Note I'm not an expert on this and could be wrong, but it just doesn't seem right to me that it is OK to expect this from a brand new trailer.

I agree totally with you @kmcrosby78. If it were my trailer, I would be demanding a refund. And I note your highlighting of the oxygen-deficient setting. Although, without knowing each trailer owners’ particular circumstances it is difficult to comment. Perhaps they cover the boat and trailer with a tarp or boat cover and the rain drips down onto the trailer. Regardless, it does seem there is a link. Both trailer owners either wash their trailer with rainwater or store it outside in the rain.

[GregOug]

13 minutes ago, Haz91a said:

A google search came up with this, last paragraph. 

That extract raises even more conditions under which white rust can occur! 

[GregOug]

Regardless of all of the above, the fact is both trailers have severe white rust problems. The only remedies appear to be either take the trailer manufacturer to task, or wire brush and zinc paint the trailer.

[Junky]

I like the rainwater theory. 

However, my trailer only formed white rust on parts that were submerged at the ramp. 

 

I've also read that covering boat with a cover and storing on grass also creates the environment.  

[Ryannnnnnnn]

Interesting feedback, thanks guys.

I ended up spending a few hours with a wire brush on my trailer to try and stop any possible further corrosion. Underneath all the white powder had turned the metal dark grey. I was able to remove the bad dark grey spots with the wire brush (took photos though, if I need it). The spread of it was worse than I thought.

Some of you might cringe at the idea given it's tacky and there's probably better products out there, but fish oil has never failed me so I put a few litres of it into a new weed sprayer and doused the trailer with it. I assume other products do it too but I know that fish oil not only gives a protective barrier but it's meant to penetrate rust and inhibit further corrosion.

I tried to cover the inside of the trailer as well but couldn't. My plan was to get some rope down the length of the trailer and attach a sponge or rag covered in preventative then pull it through the inside of the trailer a few times.. Tried attaching the rope to something stiffer like a garden hose, and a long piece of wire but it kept getting stuck on something. Might review some of the handy methods people have mentioned on here.

What I don't understand is why they make the back half of the trailer so difficult to clean from the inside. The gap between the tail light plate and the rear access to the inside of the main frame is too small to fit a hose connection into. I stick a hose in the other end (at the front of trailer) but think by the time the water reaches the back of the trailer the water is just running along the bottom and not washing the sides and top. Not that I have any genius ideas on how it could be designed better, it just seems difficult. Might need to make something out of a hose that resembles a sprinkler (or just use a sprinkler!) and stick it up the length of the trailer each wash (if I can get it up there!).

Don't know how you're meant to wash the inside of the cross bars either (not sure if that's the right term, am referring to the bars that run across the width of trailer), as I can only see small holes at the very bottom and top in the middle. Wouldn't salt water pool in these when submerged, then drain out leaving salt residue inside?

[Angry51]

The process of hot dip galvanizing requires high heat to melt the zinc.

Those little holes drilled everywhere is to let the zinc run all the

way thru everything. Without the holes the steel frame would explode.

And that's life threatening for the operator, I've seen the result when a

box section frame wasn't drilled properly.

IIRC, it's around 700/800 C.

[Old Scaley]

@Ryannnnnnnn, I would be mightily p#ssed off if my brand new trailer looked like that or had any welds cracking.  I would be particularly concerned about what you can’t see - inside the box sections. For the crossmembers I take the nozzle off the hose and then stick the fitting hard up against the small holes to force water to run through the crossmember. My redco has one on each side and another at the lowest point so I do both sides. My last redco was 11 years old when I got rid of it because the rear crossmember was starting to rust. My new one is 3 years old and has some rust on 2 bolts, but nothing showing anywhere else. Then again, it is carrying a 4.4 tinnie which I can launch and retrieve without dunking the trailer so I expect to get a lot of years out of it.

 I wonder if this white rust is common to Dunbier trailers? Personally I would be looking for a replacement, but maybe the work you did on it may have taken away that option.  Good luck with it.

[Ed.]

I spoke to a galvanizing company yesterday about these issues you guys are having and he suggested you contact the  Galvanizers Association of Australia 03 9654 1266 and discuss the situation with them, although it is a bit late for you now that you have done it, but he also suggested not to use Tectyl to coat your trailers but instead to either use Lanolin or Diesel fuel as they help with the pacification process.

Cheers

Ed

[Old Scaley]

I have used Lanox in the past. I think it does the job but needs reapplication frequently. There might be better lanolin solutions out there. I would avoid diesel because of the slick you might leave behind at the ramp.

[Ryannnnnnnn]

21 hours ago, Old Scaley said:

@Ryannnnnnnn, I would be mightily p#ssed off if my brand new trailer looked like that or had any welds cracking.  I would be particularly concerned about what you can’t see - inside the box sections. For the crossmembers I take the nozzle off the hose and then stick the fitting hard up against the small holes to force water to run through the crossmember. My redco has one on each side and another at the lowest point so I do both sides. My last redco was 11 years old when I got rid of it because the rear crossmember was starting to rust. My new one is 3 years old and has some rust on 2 bolts, but nothing showing anywhere else. Then again, it is carrying a 4.4 tinnie which I can launch and retrieve without dunking the trailer so I expect to get a lot of years out of it.

 I wonder if this white rust is common to Dunbier trailers? Personally I would be looking for a replacement, but maybe the work you did on it may have taken away that option.  Good luck with it.

Sounds similar to what I am doing (with the hose) which is good - thanks @Old Scaley

[Ryannnnnnnn]

39 minutes ago, Ed. said:

I spoke to a galvanizing company yesterday about these issues you guys are having and he suggested you contact the  Galvanizers Association of Australia 03 9654 1266 and discuss the situation with them, although it is a bit late for you now that you have done it, but he also suggested not to use Tectyl to coat your trailers but instead to either use Lanolin or Diesel fuel as they help with the pacification process.

Cheers

Ed

That's very nice of you to have done that - much appreciated @Ed.! 

[Ed.]

Hope it helps you, as others have said I would also be p.....d off if I spent that cash on a trailer only for it to look like that after 3 to 8 weeks, if you don't get any positive results you can always go to the Office of Fair Trading and do a formal complaint as that product might not be fit for purpose and they may put pressure on Dunbier to make it right.