Rod and reel beginner advice

[Flathead2021]

Hi all... would really appreciate some advice on a new rod and reel for around $200.

 

Here's the background... been out to the local lakes trout fishing with the brother in law on and off the past year. A friend and I (both completely clueless) decided to pick up a $30 rod and reel combo to learn on the fly through covid... been out to local lakes like Casey fields, places like philip Island pier and tooradin jetty... Caught a flathead and a barracuda and now have the bug and want to get some better gear - but have no idea what sizes etc we should be getting! Advice, explanations, basically any input would be great.

 

I looked up rod and reel combos in my $200 budget and found a lot of people recommending the ugly stik, and in particular the gx2. I can't seem to find this in Australia, is it just called something different here?  Gold? The reel im looking at was the daiwa dg sw.

 

So... if im planning on mostly fishing at places like Phillip Island pier, tooradin jetty, Frankston pier and local lakes, what can people recommend? Was thinking 7' and absolutely no idea what size reel... 3000?

 

Thanks!

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

G'day @Flathead2021

Welcome to the forum. Hopefully if you go back through some of the old posts (Top Right Side -> Search Bar -> Go from there) you'll find some information on those spots.

If you are just beginning with bait, an Ugly Stik will do you nicely. They are very, very tough, so won't break with any bumps or hits. I'd recommend an Ugly Stik Gold in the 2-4KG range, and maybe a 2500 Nasci or Diawa Shinobi. That'll get you started for bait fishing.

This rod will still work with lures, and I still use my Ugly Stiks with lures, but you may be better off going with a Veritas. If you are looking for an all rounder first sort of setup rod and reel though I reckon the Ugly Stik will serve well.

Cheers Hamish  

[Flathead2021]

Thanks for the quick reply, ill have a browse through the posts too.

Shoulda added, yes ill be bait fishing.. don't really care for lures.

 

Are the Gold and gx2 the same thing? 

2-4kg sounds really light... what happens if you hook up something heavier? Or is that a dumb question for the types of fish I'd be getting? I wanna reel in a monster!!

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

9 minutes ago, Flathead2021 said:

Thanks for the quick reply, ill have a browse through the posts too.

Shoulda added, yes ill be bait fishing.. don't really care for lures.

 

Are the Gold and gx2 the same thing? 

2-4kg sounds really light... what happens if you hook up something heavier? Or is that a dumb question for the types of fish I'd be getting?

 

Alright, so if you are bait fishing I'd go with the Ugly Stik. Simply because of durability; and that they will still function nicely (casting, etc).

2-4KG may be a bit light, so you could go to something like 3-6KG. In all honesty; you could spool a 2500 reel with 10-15LB braid and get away with it no worries on the Ugly Stik. As long as you don't go too heavy (as in a very heavy rod) you'll have no trouble flicking your baits around and that sort of thing.

if you hook something much larger then expected on light line there wouldn't be much to help it (except hope).

Cheers Hamish

[Ed.]

As far as I know the GX2 has a sanded blank and the Gold has the traditional finish on the rod. Not sure if there is any other manufacturing differences in between those two, incidentally the ugly stick can survive a class rating once or twice what there are rated for, plenty of silly Youtube videos of guys trying to bust them, some succeed but they had put them to extremes before they broke like using a very heavy line and attaching them to a go cart  etc., not your normal use for a fishing rod!

[Flathead2021]

So excuse my ignorance but why would you go a 2-4kg instead of a 3-6kg? 

Similarly why would you go a 2500 reel and not a 3000?

I just assume go the bigger of the two and you can handle heavier fish..  again, total noob so be nice

[Ed.]

More sensitivity and is able to have a lower casting weight, here is a couple of links to those youtube videos I mentioned.

 

 

[Brodie_S]

If you’re doing bait fishing a 2-4kg ugly stick matched with a shimano sedona 2500 and spooled with 6lb mono will do job just fine 

[Flathead2021]

Thanks guys.

So looking at BCF, the ugly stik gold comes in a 6'6 3-5kg (there is no 2-4kg), or 7' in a 2-4kg. Why is the smaller rod rated for heavier line? Which would you go?

https://www.bcf.com.au/p/ugly-stik-gold-ii-spinning-rod-6ft-6in/M567544.html

 

 

[Ed.]

As others have said, it depends on what you expect to catch, if you are after flathead, small to medium snapper and that sort,  a 2500 size will do fine, if you are fishing Phillip Island pier and Tooradin jetty and expect larger fish than you may be better off with the 3000 and 4-6kg, the stronger the setup the less sensitive it will be, so get a setup to suit the species and size you expect to catch, in other words there is no point having a 24kg setup to catch Whiting and no point in using a Whiting setup to try to catch 60kg fish.

Most of us have  separate setups to suit a targeted range of species.

[Flathead2021]

Ok great, I appreciate all of your input! 

I'll heed the advice and sounds like 2-4kg ugly stik and 2500 reel is what I'm after.

Thanks peeps

[Ed.]

8 hours ago, Flathead2021 said:

Thanks guys.

So looking at BCF, the ugly stik gold comes in a 6'6 3-5kg (there is no 2-4kg), or 7' in a 2-4kg. Why is the smaller rod rated for heavier line? Which would you go?

The length of the rod has only a little bit to do with what the rod is rated for (within reason), but more on how it was designed and built, for example, I have an Ugly Stik that is 5'6" and is a 4-6kg rod, I also have  another 5'6" Ugly stik and that one is rated for 37Kg and could possibly also handle a 60Kg class reel on it, you would need a large fish on it just to see the tip move and you wouldn't even see a Whiting bite on it.  You won't find a long rod in that class rating as leverage would be working against you. So rods are designed to suit a purpose and a particular type of fishing with a corresponding length to suit. There is no one size fits all type of rod, each rod is a compromise.

Incidentally just because BCF doesn't have a particular rod in stock does not mean it does not exist, try a few other tackle stores such as Anaconda etc.,  most stores only carry a limited range of gear as it would be impractical to carry the complete range of every manufacturers gear so if chasing a particular rod etc., you may need to shop around. Hope this helps!

Here is a link to the Australian Ugly Stik distributors site and there are many more rods that are made but not shown here and available only from overseas.

https://www.uglystik.com.au/product/gold-rod/

Cheers

Ed.

[Flathead2021]

2 hours ago, Ed. said:

The length of the rod has only a little bit to do with what the rod is rated for (within reason), but more on how it was designed and built, for example, I have an Ugly Stik that is 5'6" and is a 4-6kg rod, I also have  another 5'6" Ugly stik and that one is rated for 37Kg and could possibly also handle a 60Kg class reel on it, you would need a large fish on it just to see the tip move and you wouldn't even see a Whiting bite on it.  You won't find a long rod in that class rating as leverage would be working against you. So rods are designed to suit a purpose and a particular type of fishing with a corresponding length to suit. There is no one size fits all type of rod, each rod is a compromise.

Incidentally just because BCF doesn't have a particular rod in stock does not mean it does not exist, try a few other tackle stores such as Anaconda etc.,  most stores only carry a limited range of gear as it would be impractical to carry the complete range of every manufacturers gear so if chasing a particular rod etc., you may need to shop around. Hope this helps!

Here is a link to the Australian Ugly Stik distributors site and there are many more rods that are made but not shown here and available only from overseas.

https://www.uglystik.com.au/product/gold-rod/

Cheers

Ed.

Legend, thanks. Appreciate you all taking the time to give advice and explain what all of this stuff means.. I've learned a lot in 24 hours!

Still a bit confused on lengths, and all of the reviews I can find appear to be grouped together for an entire class of rod. ie; ugly stik gold all clubbed together. My current el cheapo rod is 6 foot and for no real reason i'd prefer it was longer.

I think I have settled on the 7' ugly stik gold, 2-4kg paired with a daiwa bg 2500 reel. $270 all up from BCF. 

[FadKing]

14 hours ago, Breaming with bro said:

If you’re doing bait fishing a 2-4kg ugly stick matched with a shimano sedona 2500 and spooled with 6lb mono will do job just fine 

Is there a reason why the Ugly Stick is only good for bait, not lures?

[Brodie_S]

7 minutes ago, FadKing said:

Is there a reason why the Ugly Stick is only good for bait, not lures?

Fibreglass rods are thicker and heavyier and don’t provide the sensitivity/feel, comfort ,casting control and casting distance that graphite rods have also graphite rods generally give the lures a lot better action 

[Ed.]

The Ugly Stiks are a composite of GRP and carbon however they are built to what's called the Howald Process, whereby there are groups of strands of Glass fibers wrapped in a spiral pattern going up the blank like a coiled spring, more  graphite fibers angled like a mesh over the core, then more layers of longitudinal fiberglass fibers over the lot. The coil gives it its bendy and almost unbreakable nature and the other fibers give it its  stiffness and keep it all together. The tip is solid glass so overall it is pretty robust. As far as I know they are the only rod that has this design and has been around for decades. Recently I think that they have started to make the more conventional pure graphite rods this year called the Ugly Stik Carbon.

Personally I find them good as about half my rods are Ugly's. When a fish lightly hits a lure on a pure graphite rod you can feel it as the rod itself will twitch, on an Ugly, the tip will twitch which you will see but not necessarily feel as it will be absorbed by the tip. I like them as they are quite resilient compared to pure graphite rods which can break just by casting them and you definitely can't high stick a pure graphite rod. The only fault with the Ugly's in my opinion are their guides but they are built to a price and still do the job adequately.

 

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

Great info Ed. I never even knew!

[Flathead2021]

Team... me again

 

About to do the deed, just wondering what line to get. . . I've got a spool of 30LB 150YD braid but i've got a feeling that's too heavy

Daiwa BG 2500 on the 2-4kg ugly stik gold.

Thx

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

Hey Flathead2021

Go with about 10LB Braid or Mono - will go nicely on the reel, and will give you insurance if you hook something bigger, opposed to using something lighter.

Cheers Hamish 

[Flathead2021]

21 minutes ago, AUS-BNE-FISHO said:

Hey Flathead2021

Go with about 10LB Braid or Mono - will go nicely on the reel, and will give you insurance if you hook something bigger, opposed to using something lighter.

Cheers Hamish 

Thx mate. Didn't realize how exxy the line can get!

I assume the $20 Wilson XL will do just fine given the BCF rating.. Any reason to get a particular line? Looking at the tech specs of the BG 2500 it says 130m (converts to 142YD)/ 10lb.. So just spool the whole thing?

https://www.bcf.com.au/p/wilson-xl-braid-line-yellow/M586752.html

Or Berkley fireline?? same price

https://www.bcf.com.au/p/berkley-fireline-original-braid-line-125yds/M303920.html?dwvar_M303920_color=Green&cgid=BCF032010#start=8

Or Jarvis Walker angler from KMart

https://www.kmart.com.au/product/jarvis-walker-angler-braid-line-150yd---10lb/1820372

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

Alright, so I wouldn't be too fazed, but the general rule is the dearer the line the better. 

If you aren't looking to spend stupid amounts (honestly, I have no clue how line costs SO much) you'd probably get away with the Jarvis Walker mono. I know someone who uses Kmart braid/mono and catches big Threadfin Salmon consistently. 

But try and get the best you can afford. I've used Fireline and didn't really like it; got all frayed and that sort of thing after a while. I think the Wilson Line would be your best bet.

Cheers Hamish

P.S. Before you go buying the line, I'd wait for some other opinions. I don't know too much about the newest and best lines on the market at the moment.

[Flathead2021]

7 minutes ago, AUS-BNE-FISHO said:

Alright, so I wouldn't be too fazed, but the general rule is the dearer the line the better. 

If you aren't looking to spend stupid amounts (honestly, I have no clue how line costs SO much) you'd probably get away with the Jarvis Walker mono. I know someone who uses Kmart braid/mono and catches big Threadfin Salmon consistently. 

But try and get the best you can afford. I've used Fireline and didn't really like it; got all frayed and that sort of thing after a while. I think the Wilson Line would be your best bet.

Cheers Hamish

Thanks, will steer clear of the fireline.. saw similar feedback when doing some reading just now.

Of course, wilson is out of stock at my local store lol.. given everything is click and collect, that's annoying! I'll go with something like power pro (y) 

 

[Flathead2021]

Heya,

The Daiwa BG is "braid ready" - does that mean i can just tie it straight to the spool without any mono backing? I read a bit about slippage, but it's got a rubbery ring around the centre of the spool which is what I assume they are talking about.

[ellicat]

Yep. I recently got a BG and spooled it up without backing. No slippage.

[Brodie_S]

I would use backing for the braid but if it’s safe to spool braid straight on you’ll be fine . Also daiwa j braid x4 is pretty good for the price it’s around $20 for 150yd I’ve also been trying Gliss for awhile to but it’s still in testing I’ll give it at least a few more months before I have a solid opinion on it I have it spooled on 3 reels 10lb 13lb and 19kg. Gliss is around $10-15 for 150m or 300m 

[Flathead2021]

6 hours ago, ellicat said:

Yep. I recently got a BG and spooled it up without backing. No slippage.

 

2 hours ago, Breaming with bro said:

I would use backing for the braid but if it’s safe to spool braid straight on you’ll be fine . Also daiwa j braid x4 is pretty good for the price it’s around $20 for 150yd I’ve also been trying Gliss for awhile to but it’s still in testing I’ll give it at least a few more months before I have a solid opinion on it I have it spooled on 3 reels 10lb 13lb and 19kg. Gliss is around $10-15 for 150m or 300m 

Thanks guys.. Not that anyone cares but to keep you updated on my newbie journey - as I'm learning the ropes I decided to go with the advice and used mono backing... just to learn how to do it. Spooled it all up, hopefully it's right haha! The tutorial I was following advised an arbor knot for the reel and then a double uni knot to join the lines. 

Went with Shimano Kairiki 8 10lb line, purely because BCF were out of all the cheaper stuff when I did my click and collect.

Thanks again for the input

[Drop Bear]

1 hour ago, Flathead2021 said:

Not that anyone cares

We all care and love fishing stories. Glad you are all spooled up. I can't wait to hear about your fishing adventures.

Go get 'em

[Brodie_S]

1 hour ago, Flathead2021 said:

 

Thanks guys.. Not that anyone cares but to keep you updated on my newbie journey - as I'm learning the ropes I decided to go with the advice and used mono backing... just to learn how to do it. Spooled it all up, hopefully it's right haha! The tutorial I was following advised an arbor knot for the reel and then a double uni knot to join the lines. 

Went with Shimano Kairiki 8 10lb line, purely because BCF were out of all the cheaper stuff when I did my click and collect.

Thanks again for the input

Sounds good can’t wait to hear some reports 

[Flathead2021]

2 hours ago, Drop Bear said:

We all care and love fishing stories. Glad you are all spooled up. I can't wait to hear about your fishing adventures.

Go get 'em

 

2 hours ago, Breaming with bro said:

Sounds good can’t wait to hear some reports 

Well in that case, off to Frankston pier this weekend. I'll be sure to report back!

[Flathead2021]

So as promised, closing the loop. Got down to mordialloc pier yesterday morning and snagged one small flattie on the new rod using a z man grub. Nothing to write home about, but always happy to hook up no matter how small!

 

Never used soft plastics before, very handy not having to bait up constantly. If I want to target flatties specifically are the soft plastics a good option or am I better off going with dead bait? As always, would love recommendations on what/ how to use stuff.

 

Loved the sensitivity of the ugly stik, very happy with all the recommendations and input. Thanks again all.

 

Very noob but having a blast

[ellicat]

Using plastics for flatties is probably better than dead bait as you are actively casting around the place to find them rather than hoping they will find your bait.

Good news you got one on your first go. Well done.

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

Glad you had some success, mate. It's always great to catch a fish on a SP!

I think the key to flatty fishing is being mobile. If you aren't moving you are less likely to encounter them.

For instance, if you are on a boat drifting along with the tide bait fishing would be good as you are just going along, hopefully over one when it sits down.

For land based fishing lures may be better as they cover more ground.

Cheers Hamish

[Brodie_S]

Yes lures are far better for flathead never seen the point of targeting them on bait tbh I think it’s a waste of time I think you would be better off targeting bream or whiting on bait

[Ed.]

On 17/02/2021 at 6:08 PM, Flathead2021 said:

 

Well in that case, off to Frankston pier this weekend. I'll be sure to report back!

So @Flathead2021, how are your fishing trips coming along?