Burning out a transducer

[GregOug]

Hi all. A question for you. Someone said to me recently that you shouldn’t leave your gps/sounder on when the boat is out of the water because it burns out the transducer. Is this correct? Sounds pretty bloody stupid to me if it is. I mean, even today I went out to my boat a few hours after we put it back on the trailer and I noticed I’d left the gps/sounder on. And how do you know if this has happened? Does it stop producing a bottom reading or stop displaying altogether? What happens?

[Old Scaley]

Here you go Greg https://support.garmin.com/en-AU/?faq=BzthnHQrMb4fRIZCKLnum6

I always try to remember to turn the unit off before returning to the ramp, and always run it on simulator mode if I am playing with it (the unit that is) in the shed.

[GregOug]

15 minutes ago, Old Scaley said:

Here you go Greg https://support.garmin.com/en-AU/?faq=BzthnHQrMb4fRIZCKLnum6

I always try to remember to turn the unit off before returning to the ramp, and always run it on simulator mode if I am playing with it (the unit that is) in the shed.

Thanks for that Steve. I wonder what they mean by an ‘extended period of time’?

[Old Scaley]

18 minutes ago, GregOug said:

Thanks for that Steve. I wonder what they mean by an ‘extended period of time’?

Good question. Probably depends on the power of your transducer. I doubt a few minutes would worry too many transducers but a few hours might trouble the higher powered units. Probably best to just get into the habit of turning it off  as you get close to the ramp. Just out of interest, have you noticed what voltage it displays when you are not running your motor (assuming it is running off your start battery)? Just interested because mine shows between 11.4 and 11.8 on a fully charged agm 110ah battery that is only running the sounder, bilge pump and lights, with the last 2 rarely on. The multimeter shows around 12.3v but that is not under load.  Just interested in case I am losing voltage somewhere between battery and sounder.

[GregOug]

44 minutes ago, Old Scaley said:

Good question. Probably depends on the power of your transducer. I doubt a few minutes would worry too many transducers but a few hours might trouble the higher powered units. Probably best to just get into the habit of turning it off  as you get close to the ramp. Just out of interest, have you noticed what voltage it displays when you are not running your motor (assuming it is running off your start battery)? Just interested because mine shows between 11.4 and 11.8 on a fully charged agm 110ah battery that is only running the sounder, bilge pump and lights, with the last 2 rarely on. The multimeter shows around 12.3v but that is not under load.  Just interested in case I am losing voltage somewhere between battery and sounder.

Believe it or not but I think I can answer that question! Just look at the screenshots of my new sounder I just posted and the voltage is displayed as 12.5v. That was with the engine off, but with the isolator switch set to both batteries, which run everything.

[Kenne]

I have a Raymarine dragonfly pro and have left it turned on deliberately for a couple of days to managed the voltage drop.   Still works ok .I think .But haven't seen any good fish lately. Maybe it is broken.....

[GregOug]

39 minutes ago, Kenne said:

I have a Raymarine dragonfly pro and have left it turned on deliberately for a couple of days to managed the voltage drop.   Still works ok .I think .But haven't seen any good fish lately. Maybe it is broken.....

Mate, all mine don’t show fish either. I think fish are a mythical government led conspiracy, probably related in some way to vaccines.

[Do$tylz]

14 hours ago, GregOug said:

Mate, all mine don’t show fish either. I think fish are a mythical government led conspiracy, probably related in some way to vaccines.

Mate - you're crazy. It's the rollout of 5G that is messing with your sounder 

[Hweebe]

 

22 hours ago, Old Scaley said:

Good question. Probably depends on the power of your transducer. I doubt a few minutes would worry too many transducers but a few hours might trouble the higher powered units. Probably best to just get into the habit of turning it off  as you get close to the ramp. Just out of interest, have you noticed what voltage it displays when you are not running your motor (assuming it is running off your start battery)? Just interested because mine shows between 11.4 and 11.8 on a fully charged agm 110ah battery that is only running the sounder, bilge pump and lights, with the last 2 rarely on. The multimeter shows around 12.3v but that is not under load.  Just interested in case I am losing voltage somewhere between battery and sounder.

Where are you checking the voltage with the multi meter? @ the Battery terminal or somewhere closer to the sounder?

What gauge wire  is being used from Battery to sounder? Might be a voltage drop due to the distance from the battery to the sounder if the wire gauge isn't right.

 

[Old Scaley]

More good questions @Hweebe. I have only checked at the battery because the rest of the wiring is sealed and is what came with the unit. I have made sure the battery connections are clean and that the fittings are tight inside the switch box.   It never gives a low voltage alarm and I always charge the battery between trips so I guess as long as it works I should leave well enough alone. Marine electronics is yet another of my many weaknesses. These forums are great for improving knowledge on these sort of things so I am open to any thoughts. Thanks for your input.

[Hweebe]

Ok more questions

• What Sounder Manufacturer is your sounder

Then we can look at a wiring diagram to determine Positive and Negative on the wiring plug to check voltage at the plug with the multi-meter.

Or do you have a 12v cig outlet near the helm / sounder that we can test.

***Your sounder voltage alarm may not be alerting depending on what voltage you have set the alert to raise.

 

[Old Scaley]

6 minutes ago, Hweebe said:

Ok more questions

• What Sounder Manufacturer is your sounder

Then we can look at a wiring diagram to determine Positive and Negative on the wiring plug to check voltage at the plug with the multi-meter.

Or do you have a 12v cig outlet near the helm / sounder that we can test.

***Your sounder voltage alarm may not be alerting depending on what voltage you have set the alert to raise.

 

It is a Garmin 95sv. No cigarette outlet on the boat. The unit plugs into a cradle and it is a multi pin type plug and socket. Thanks for helping! 

[Angry51]

47 minutes ago, Old Scaley said:

 No cigarette outlet on the boat. 

How does ellicat light his durries with no lighter on the dash.

Bit hard on yer deckie Steve.

[ellicat]

25 minutes ago, Angry51 said:

How does ellicat light his durries with no lighter on the dash.

Bit hard on yer deckie Steve.

I put the red lead in my mouth and Steve holds the black one on the end of the smoke.

[Hweebe]

5 hours ago, Old Scaley said:

It is a Garmin 95sv. No cigarette outlet on the boat. The unit plugs into a cradle and it is a multi pin type plug and socket. Thanks for helping! 

That makes it easy. Check the voltage on the two pins for the 95sv cradle with the multi meter. I believe it should look like the diagram on the right. 

[Old Scaley]

15 hours ago, Hweebe said:

That makes it easy. Check the voltage on the two pins for the 95sv cradle with the multi meter. I believe it should look like the diagram on the right. 

Spot on @Hweebe. I checked the voltage at the battery terminals (12.9v) and then at the cradle (12.9v). Then I plugged in the head unit and the display said 11.8v. So at least I know that I am not losing voltage between the battery and the unit. Maybe the voltmeter on the unit reads low? Or running the unit drops the voltage. Either way not much I can do except know that the battery is not low.  Thanks again for your help.

[Hweebe]

1 hour ago, Old Scaley said:

Spot on @Hweebe. I checked the voltage at the battery terminals (12.9v) and then at the cradle (12.9v). Then I plugged in the head unit and the display said 11.8v. So at least I know that I am not losing voltage between the battery and the unit. Maybe the voltmeter on the unit reads low? Or running the unit drops the voltage. Either way not much I can do except know that the battery is not low.  Thanks again for your help.

@Old Scaley Could you do one more test to be sure.

Recheck the the voltage with the bilge and lights ON. This will place some load on the circuit so you will get a better/accurate reading. (instead of the float voltage (no Load) which can be misleading)

[Old Scaley]

Ok @Hweebe. I turned on the bilge, the live bait pump and the Nav lights and took the readings again.  Battery stayed at 12.9v but the sounder cradle reading dropped to 11.8v, so I am losing about 1 volt under load. Is that normal?

[Hweebe]

Hummmm.....this is interesting.

This would mean the Garmin Sounder reading is accurate.

 

[Hweebe]

A good battery even under load should stay above 12v.

Sorry @Old Scaley more tests required as I was hoping with all things ON the voltage would be above 12V and prove your battery is good.

Please check voltage at cradle:

1) only bilge on

2) only nav lights on

3) only the live bait tank on

We need to confirm if one of the above is nearing end of life and causing the voltage drop or if it is the battery.

Cheers

Huy

[Old Scaley]

Thanks Huy. Will have a look tomorrow.

[GregOug]

@Old Scaley, how do you put the Garmin into demo mode. Couldn’t see an option to do it and, of course, the manual is next to useless. Also, once you do that, can you still add marks etc that will stay there. I mean, they don’t just get added to demo do they and then disappear next time you turn it on. 
 

I think I may have already overwritten my $400 G3 Vision card with the standard G3 maps from the units internal memory. If so, I am going to be very angry and Garmin better watch out. I inserted the card and a pop up appeared asking if I wanted to copy the maps. So I did. After it finished I realised it seems to be saying it copied from the sounder to the card. Why would that even be an option! Surely a $400 card should be write protected!

[Old Scaley]

@GregOug Try settings>system>simulator 

Sorry, can’t help with the card question. What extra does the vision maps give you?

[GregOug]

4 minutes ago, Old Scaley said:

@GregOug Try settings>system>simulator 

Sorry, can’t help with the card question. What extra does the vision maps give you?

Auto-routing, 10m contours, satellite overlay.

[Hweebe]

Hey @GregOug

Instead of simulator mode and so that u can still save marks how about:

To disable the active sonar, from the sonarscreen, select MENU > Sonar Transmit. , and select Disable Sonar

Also what transducer did u get if it’s the standard 500w u shouldn’t have to disable sonar.

[GregOug]

26 minutes ago, Hweebe said:

Hey @GregOug

Instead of simulator mode and so that u can still save marks how about:

To disable the active sonar, from the sonarscreen, select MENU > Sonar Transmit. , and select Disable Sonar

Also what transducer did u get if it’s the standard 500w u shouldn’t have to disable sonar.

I got the Garmin GT56UHD-TM Transducer.

 

[Hweebe]

9 hours ago, GregOug said:

I got the Garmin GT56UHD-TM Transducer.

 

Specs: Power- Traditional 350 W; ClearVü/SideVü 500 W

So based on the Garmin advice/notice you should be fine leaving sonar on if u are playing around with the unit while boat is on trailer.

The potential burn out issue is only for 1000w transducers where water cooling is needed

 

 

[Hweebe]

12 hours ago, GregOug said:

@Old Scaley, how do you put the Garmin into demo mode. Couldn’t see an option to do it and, of course, the manual is next to useless. Also, once you do that, can you still add marks etc that will stay there. I mean, they don’t just get added to demo do they and then disappear next time you turn it on. 
 

I think I may have already overwritten my $400 G3 Vision card with the standard G3 maps from the units internal memory. If so, I am going to be very angry and Garmin better watch out. I inserted the card and a pop up appeared asking if I wanted to copy the maps. So I did. After it finished I realised it seems to be saying it copied from the sounder to the card. Why would that even be an option! Surely a $400 card should be write protected!

Hi @GregOug

Can u please check

Select Settings > System > System Information > Software Information.

Look for the words “Supplemental Maps”

From this you will be able to tell if the unit is recognising the SD card and G3 vision maps

[GregOug]

4 hours ago, Hweebe said:

Hi @GregOug

Can u please check

Select Settings > System > System Information > Software Information.

Look for the words “Supplemental Maps”

From this you will be able to tell if the unit is recognising the SD card and G3 vision maps

Only. Did that. And looks like I didn’t overwrite my G3 Vision maps. It is recognising it. Well, actually it is recognising two supplementary maps - VPC022R and VPC022A. I looked these up and the R looks like it is the bought map and the A is a map downloaded from Garmin. The A is probably the free update map. 
 

Anyway, it seems to working because there is now satellite overlay and auto-guidance showing, which weren’t before.

Anyway, the only problems I have now (at least for the moment! Lol.) are:

It is drawing the overlays and even the maps quite slowly,

There is an alarm going off every few seconds - no doubt something I did when setting up alarms, and

i can’t work out how to set an alarm for all marine park boundaries.

[Old Scaley]

22 hours ago, Hweebe said:

A good battery even under load should stay above 12v.

Sorry @Old Scaley more tests required as I was hoping with all things ON the voltage would be above 12V and prove your battery is good.

Please check voltage at cradle:

1) only bilge on

2) only nav lights on

3) only the live bait tank on

We need to confirm if one of the above is nearing end of life and causing the voltage drop or if it is the battery.

Cheers

Huy

Ok, done that now.

Bilge only = 12.2v

Nav lights only = 12.7v

Live bait pump only =12.2v

All on together = 11.8v

[Old Scaley]

20 hours ago, GregOug said:

Auto-routing, 10m contours, satellite overlay.

Gee @GregOug, I had a look at a video of those Vision maps.  So many new shiny things to play with. No excuses now - that card looks like it will do everything but fillet the fish for you. Although with so many features to try, you may never actually get time to cast a line. 

[GregOug]

3 hours ago, Old Scaley said:

Ok, done that now.

Bilge only = 12.2v

Nav lights only = 12.7v

Live bait pump only =12.2v

All on together = 11.8v

Bloody hell. An Engineering degree would be less complicated!

[GregOug]

3 hours ago, Old Scaley said:

Gee @GregOug, I had a look at a video of those Vision maps.  So many new shiny things to play with. No excuses now - that card looks like it will do everything but fillet the fish for you. Although with so many features to try, you may never actually get time to cast a line. 

You can cast a line from a boat? No one told me that!

[Ed.]

1 hour ago, GregOug said:

You can cast a line from a boat? No one told me that!

Surprise! See that's where you have been going wrong!

[GregOug]

24 minutes ago, Ed. said:

Surprise! See that's where you have been going wrong!

Okay. Watch out. Fish, here we come!

[Hweebe]

4 hours ago, Old Scaley said:

Ok, done that now.

Bilge only = 12.2v

Nav lights only = 12.7v

Live bait pump only =12.2v

All on together = 11.8v

Ok we can now say the bilge, nav lights and live bait pump are all placing normal load on the battery. So they are all in good normal working order. Sounder places no additional  load or minimal load when it is on also.

We can now also say the wiring and gauge is all fine as well.

next steps

Set a voltage alarm for between 10.5 and 11v on the sounder. If when u start ur motor and u are consistently triggering this alarm  Then time to start looking into a replacement battery. If it only occasionally triggers the alarm there is probably still some life in the battery.

A good battery will rarely (if ever) trigger 10.5 when you start the motor.

 

 

[Hweebe]

8 hours ago, GregOug said:

Anyway, the only problems I have now (at least for the moment! Lol.) are:

It is drawing the overlays and even the maps quite slowly,

There is an alarm going off every few seconds - no doubt something I did when setting up alarms, and

i can’t work out how to set an alarm for all marine park boundaries.

Ok we haven’t deleted the maps Yay!!

I don’t have recent experience with satellite overlays but I think this overlay would be typically slow to render. Maybe someone on AFO can confirm.

If you only turn on a navigation chart overlay only (no other overlays) is it still slow to render?

Where is your boat stored? Under a shed? Could be a GPS signal lost alarm. 

Can’t help u with an alarm  for Marin park boundaries....I didn’t know this was possible?

[GregOug]

1 minute ago, Hweebe said:

Ok we haven’t deleted the maps Yay!!

I don’t have recent experience with satellite overlays but I think this overlay would be typically slow to render. Maybe someone on AFO can confirm.

If you only turn on a navigation chart overlay only (no other overlays) is it still slow to render?

Where is your boat stored? Under a shed? Could be a GPS signal lost alarm. 

Can’t help u with an alarm  for Marin park boundaries....I didn’t know this was possible?

1. Don’t know

2. Stored in my enclosed garage

3. Apparently it is