When do we believe the greens and why?

[Feral]

Just an interesting question. I am a bit of an amateur observer of people, and I am interested in the whole concept of the green movement and their influence. Particularly the entire "green movement" (When I say greeens here, I mean the movement, not the party)

People tend to be very polar about green issues, either fully for or fully against, also emotion often runs high.

So have a look at the following and ask yourself if you believe the greens or not in the circumstance listed, and why. (Forget the nimby type reasons, thats different)

I am not asking for your opinions on any of the matters, or wanting to start a battle for either side of the debate on any of the subjects, just wondering if anyone else has the same realisation as I when they think about it.

1. Dams - New dams scheduled around Brisbane, the greens have decreed that they will be an environmental disaster for the rivers concerned, and for Hervey Bay

2. Whaling - Greens are very anti-whaling, committing acts that are definately illegal for the cause.

3. Kangaroo culling - Greens very anti culling, leading world wide boycots of Australian goods

4. Logging - Greens very anti logging, once again a history of illegal activity in support of the cause.

5. Moreton bay marine closures. Greens are demanding closures of large lumps of the bay from recreational and commercial fishing. Greens bringing in swags of "scientific data" in support of their cause.

Most people will side with the greens on many of these causes, but also most people will be against the greens on at least one of the causes.

Of course all of this is clouded by the fact we have been subject to all sorts of social engineering / pressures and do have some knowledge of many of the subjects.

However I wonder how many people will discover the same thing I did. Those areas I do not agree with the greens on, tend to be the areas where I have reasonable personal knowledge, or experience related to the issue. I find that disturbingly interesting, does it mean if I looked into some of the issues I side with the greens on, that perhaps I might change my mind when more data, from sources other than the greens, is made available?

Interesting (well for me it is , probably bore the pants off the rest of you!).

[kriso]

there idiots i refuse to listen to midnight oil now whih sucks cause i used to love it

[Dan23]

I did Journalism at uni so I'm very sceptical of everything I see in the media. I know that there's a lot of lazy journos that will print whatever media release lands on their desk pretty much word for word. That's why big companies and organisations have PR departments.

So basically in this day and age I'd say any info that you find on a sensitive topic like the environment should be considered but not taken as fact. Especially when published from a group with an invested interest.

The amount of times I came across big stories that were newsworthy as a student, but were too controversial to be printed in the mainstream media was amazing.

[Cowfish13]

1. I agree with the Greens on one side (environmental loss), but we do need the water. However, the Gordan River being saved from being damed in Tassie was a good thing. I've been there and it is very nice:)

2. Completely agree with them

3. As above, but maybe we could use the Roo meat for food or relocate them if they are in fact in excess numbers.

4. If it is selective, then thats fine, but Clear Felling is a very very bad way to go about it

5. I agree with some zones, but definately not all of them.

My views are generally with the Greens, but not on every side

[ellicat]

Interesting thread Feral.

I'd be saying the younger you are the more chance you will agree with the greenies. A result of many things, not the least of which is that the younger you are the more you believe or rely on what you've been told rather than experienced and observed over time.

I'd be guessing "yes" is the answer to your ultimate question.

[CrayfishMates]

Would it matter if I said, I don't care? Been around long enough to take my own action for environment and don't need to be "educated" on what other people think or believe to be right about it. Little bit of a cult following IMO, lets save the planet. Trust humans to be arrogant enough to think they can actually do that.

[waldo]

You are pretty much on the money Feral, the more you know about a subject the less you can have the wool pulled over your eyes.

The big problem is when you refer to "greens" because that includes all shades and even some greens hate other greens.

There is too much manipulation of information these days and both sides of most debates withhold information or hire "enter your desired outcome here" scientists to support their case.

People being people, they have little more than a passing interest in anything that doesn't effect them. So they don't have to think too much they will usually go with the sales speil they are being given with few bothering to look deeper into the subject.

In the end it usually comes down to money or votes and who has the loudest most convincing voice be they right or wrong.

[rayke1938]

The greens all creditability with me when a friendly society I used to be a board member tried to get approval to build a retirement village at Victoria point had the approval refused on information provided by Simon Balitis that the area had trees and schrubs growing on it that were the feeding plants for a rare blue winged butterfly.

He also claimed that the area was a koala habitat when the tallest tree was 15 ft tall and none of the trees were koala feed trees.

We subsequently found out that the butterfly has not been seen in the Redlands since the 1920,s.

This is the type and quality of misinformation that they use to further their own ends.

You really have to check any date that they provide to check its veracity.

The big problem with any data provided by any groups is that they will only publish the parts that they want you to read and the majority of people will accept ot and they do not have the resourses to fully investigate it.

Cheers

Ray

[Dan23]

One thing I don't like about the greens is the way they try and pressure you into giving them money.

I wouldn't be surprised if the people who canvas for them aren't getting a cut for every donatation.

I had one girl come up to me on at Uni and was at first friendly but soon she was being really, really forceful trying to get money off me. I told her I'd think about it and look at their website but I didn't have any bank details so I wasn't going to be able to sign up there and then just as an excuse. She said she'd go with me to the bank so we could find them out lol. After that I pretty much barred her and walked away and now every time I see one coming I say no not interested straight away.

I agree with fighting for environmental causes but I don't like the Yahoo attitude of some greenies. It discredits all their efforts really.

Still it's like David Suzuki says if there weren't the extreme environmentalists then people like him would be he extreme and therefore get less credibility.

[Ash]

point 1 is a hard one. We need water, but at the same time, we need to protect our "Wild" native species. Its funny though, when the question about recycled water came up, i bet most the greenies would prefer the dams! I for one think the recycled water is a great idea.

Point 2, I am very much on the greens side. I applaud their actions against whaling ships and wish the government would send more ships out the help them. Especially when certain countries are found with whaling ships in our whale sactuaries.

Point 3, even the its our fault any way, Kangaroos do need to be culled. A good balance has been made with the fact that you need permits and licencing now to cull them.

Point 4, again a hard one. We need more logging farms, that way we can leave the native bush and forest be.

Point 5, I believe things need to be done to protect our waters. But the closure of certain areas, with out thorough research first will do more harm then good. Maybe a rotation of areas that are CLEARY mark on maps, plus restocking programs would be better.

Well, thats my 2cents worth.

Ash