Andrew_P

5 hours ago, Junky said:

Thank you gents. 

 

My Pe8 rod does exactly what your top pick illustrates. It has heaps of grunt. Can pull the plug out of the ocean so to speak. 

 

I was under the impression those slow pitch rods had power in the blanks. 

Think I'll give them a miss and stick to doing what I'm doing, which is F all at the moment due to a big side project. 

 

Might focus my attention on a specific jig rod now. 

Cheers. 

 

They are strong in the fact that they have thick walls for such thin diameter blanks. I’m sure the Japanese make strong, powerful blanks for slow jigging big lures but they will still be slow to moderate tapers, and have a hard tip for moving the heavy jigs. A more traditional “speed” or “deep” jigging rod will have the power with a faster action/softish tip depending on the jig and pe rating. I would recommend googling “United Composites” or “black hole” and “deep jigging”

How about when you catch a fish? Jammy @Doughnuts

6 hours ago, TheCharliefisho said:

Hey! I'm melbourne born!!

Like most Qld residents!

Unreal conditions and great catches! Is that a dark tailed seaperch after the girl in the wheelhouse pic?

1 hour ago, Junky said:

I'm sure they do too. 

It's just that I am not up to speed on these rods at all. I have zero experience. 

 

The ones I see in shops looked real heavy compared to what I see being used on the vids. 

I see the vloggers using rods with a nice soft tip, then load up like they're pulling in a 15kg red. 

I gotta get me one of these rods to try out. 

 

 

 

Yep, I have heard of the nomad issues. I also didn't like their reversed reel seat.  Nice looking rods though. The saltiga however felt the best when loaded up. 

 

 

sounds like they are using slow pitch jig rods. These are thin diameter, heavily reinforced rods between 6 and 7ft with a parabolic (slow) action.  These are designed to work lures of specific weights using lines of specific ratings.  Some people use these for bait fishing and they are sensitive but parabolic rods aren’t the best for fighting fish. I’ve built a couple for friends using a range of blanks depending upon their needs.

Some of the questions I would ask before building would be:

Where are you fishing and what species are you targeting?

what lb / PE line?

What jigs/rigs will you be using?

what depth will you be fishing in?

and go from there  

If you want to go off the shelf, My advice would be to take your reel into Jones’s (Northside) or tackle warehouse (southside) and ask the dudes to give you a range of rods to put your reel on, thread the line thru and bend them. See what balances well and feels good (grip length/design etc) then you should have a good idea what you want. 

there’s plenty of info out there the east coast American dudes are fully into it. 

9 minutes ago, Junky said:

Legend. 

I will be giving them a go. 

Do you run the swivel because the shank is to thick to move freely in the eye of the lower hook, causing them to jam up? 

 

These 7766s are definitely softer. They held better years ago. 

I wish I was a tackle geek. 

I would have load tested them back in the day. 

yeah it just makes them much easier to bait up with the swivel in between, and i reckon they swing better when you set the hooks (the 7766s did get stuck in some funny positions at times)

the only downside with the big guns is they are chemically sharpened so you cant really sharpen and re-use them when they go blunt, which makes them expensive

1 hour ago, Junky said:

I loved that saltiga enough to go and buy its cousin. 

The certate 14000xh. 

 

It sits on a Diawa Spartan S85 6/8. 

 

 

Why? 

Because now I can have a popper on the saltiga, and a stick bait on the certate. 

Nah, well I can, but I am in the process of updating my outfits, slowly. Started with the heavy hitters and will later sort mediums out, then light.

I am fishing more reef areas up north and I am using the drags to muscle the fish up before the tax man gets them, and should the tax man get hooked while stealing my fish, I have a good chance of getting him to the boat to give him a good smack across the back for being an opportunist. 

 

I am in the market for a good jigging rod. The ones that look like 2 to 4kg rods but are actually good for about 15kg. This area is new to me so throw some suggestions at me. I will be using the certate or saltiga on them, so spin rod obviously. 

Surely Daiwa do a jigging rod you are after. The Shimano ocea jiggers look good if you are willing to spend money!

Lots of youtube floggers flogging the Nomad jiggers but have heard of more than a few breakages in reel life....

My recommendation would be to get a custom rod builder to recommend a blank and build to spec (you can even provide them the reel to get the guide spacings perfect!). Try Peter Flor @florless rods his rods are high quality, he is great to work with and will have what you are after.

2 hours ago, Junky said:

My favourite reel is my 20 Saltiga 14000xh. 

 

 

I matched it with the 21 saltiga 710-8 extra heavy spin. 

 

 

Awesome for popping and stick baits. 

Nice and light for bottom bashing, compared to overheads. 

 

Not much gets away from me now, however I am starting to straighten ganged up mustard 7766DT hooks trying to beat the sharks. 

Anyone have any strong hooks to gang that they'd recommend?

Mustad Big Guns 8/0s ganged with black rolling swivels. the PEtackle equivalent BFG's are pretty good too and you can buy the 8/0s open eye ready to gang

ive been using the 7766 for years and recently they are noticeably softer when opening the eye for ganging. have moved over to the Big Guns and wont go back

@ellicat The Jewstopper!

Favourites

here is the link. Would be great to see people add to the list!

Great spotties for the bay!

Gerres sp

Good to see someone using their noggins against the sharks! A couple of factoids from me that might add to the info:

1. Sharks and rays have ability to detect magnetic fields, whereas fin fish do not. I’d suggest that the difference in catch rate of Spanish you observed would be only from the magnet altering how the baits swim, not from magnetic fields. But I could be wrong!

2. When shark researchers were looking at developing electromagnetic deterrents to prevent shark bites on surfers and divers they were effective if they were strong enough, close enough to the potential target. But, if the shark was in “feeding mode” even the strongest magnetic field would not deter them from biting the target. 
 

so magnets, if strong enough, may put off potential shark depredation but not if the shark has decided to eat the hooked mackerel before it feels any magnetic field. I would suggest the vibrations of a hooked mackerel would overwhelm whatever field a magnet is generating from the front of the hooks. 
 

perhaps someone could patent an affordable magnetic snapper sinker for paternoster use? Lead goes for ~$8kg so if the product was slightly more expensive (say $10-12 kg) I reckon most people would go for it. 
 

@Daryl McPhee may have more info on this topic

Would love to see more of your work on here @Sylvathorn

Great work! Love the chevron fade @Sylvathorn

5 minutes ago, Angry51 said:

" it's purely a power in numbers thing. "

Yeah numbers lie too.

You can twist the numbers any way to suit any ideal.

There's 2 sides to every argument, just depends what side you're standing on.

Show me anything in any of my posts that is twisted. which side am I on? Im a scientist and a rec fisher, so I guess I’m on the fish’s side!
 

you can’t bash the pros and not look at yourself as a rec fisher in the mirror. It doesn’t add up. 

27 minutes ago, Bob9863 said:

But do the 80k recreational fishermen go out after Spaniards? 

And of those that do how many catch? 

Commercial fishermen always harvest more then the recreational fishermen do, they don't have the bag limits, they don't have to use the same methods either. 

It's just not a fair comparison. 

 

You are correct - it is not a fair comparison given the 800k (not 80k) overwhelmingly outnumbers the total number of commercial fishers in the whole of Qld! And SM line fishers do have the same gear rules as rec fishers - 6 hooks max at a time  

my point is that unlike commercial fishers who have restriction on licences, have to pay for quota, have a heavily reduced TAC, the 800k rec fishers in Qld can fish for mackerel if they want. Let’s assume only the top 1% that chase mackerel are anywhere as good Neil. That’s 8000 fishers having a culmulative effect on the stock up and down the coast. And then there’s the other 99% that can fish for them too, including on charter boats with experienced skippers (pretty much the same as the commercial industry reliant on harvesting fish from the stock). 
 

it’s purely a power in numbers thing. 
 

I know this information won’t change many minds, but as long as a few people consider that there is an impact of rec fishing on fisheries resources and it is in our own best interests to help rebuild stocks then we are a lot closer to reality. 

2 hours ago, Angry51 said:

I was talking 80/20 of rec fishers not counting pro fishers.

I know a lot of fishers go fishing just to take the boat out, to have a few beers, to

get away for the day etc, etc and really dont care if they get a fish or not.

That why you have a 80/20 ratio.

I was merely calculating what 20% of 800k rec fishers in Qld was and comparing that number to commercial fishers just to give some perspective. 

4 hours ago, Kat said:

I am certainly no scientist - so don't want to interject in the debate. But I would like to know how many Spaniards commercial fisherman lose to Sharks.  From my knowledge they fish by line too?

And, @Andrew_P - Bob was talking about freshwater trout (I think..)

Cheers Kat 

Whoops! When I hear trout my mind goes straight to the GBR and the blue spotted, red variety!

yes Kat the pros catch SM by line, and have experienced the same increase in shark depredation that rec fishers have. The stock assessment used a range of estimates to try to account for depredation, up to 20% (1 in 5) for the whole Qld coast, and even with this taken into account, stock level estimates were still below 20%. There is a project underway using licenced SM fishers to get a more accurate estImate of depredation rates. 
 

the thing about commercial fishers is that the Qld gov know how many fishers there are, when they fish, how many they catch and where and when they are landed. But for rec fishers this information is far more rubbery - as Neil says boat ramp surveys and rec fishing surveys (with random population sampling designs) give estimates with large variances, and are not great at capturing highly skilled, specialist fishers for hard to catch species. Which is why there is a push to improve rec fisher catch reporting in Qld. 

the 20% of people catching 80% of the fish is a stat that gets trotted out all the time (as well as variations like 10/90 and 5/95) and is really interesting. For perspective, there are ~ 3000 commercial fishing licences in Qld across all fisheries (line, net, trawl, pot, harvest) and our last best guess at number of rec fishers is around 800 000. So 20% of 800k is 160 000 rec fishers catching 80% of this fish.  but there’s only 3000 pros in the whole state. The facts are Rec fishers dominate the catch of most key species in Qld. 

Apologies I’ve taken up way too much of your time so I’ll stop now. I just hope people think about the bigger picture. 

4 hours ago, Neil Stratford said:

Hi Andrew , The catch rate v sharks attacks rates you have quoted for me are floored .

I like you don’t right up a report for every time a trip out is made.

fyi , below is info on three trips made  between those two trips you have critiqued.

Trip A

6 Spanish - non lost to sharks. Back to the ramp at 830am . All fish filleted and boned out and nearly all given away to friends and family who appreciate a feed of free fresh fish . 

Trip B 

62 Bass - with a couple lost to tree branches . All bass released. 

Trip C 

1 Threadfin - released 

 Suggest you goggle up  -     Qld Spanish Mackerel bag limit 4bc utube.

It’s an interview between Neil Breen ( 4bc) and Dan McCarthy ( independent politician and Game Fisher).Very entertaining and must see watch for you.

I like my spanish fishing and wouldn’t like to see a decline in their stock. I tend to agree with Junky on the this one , the shark numbers are causing lots of issues . Eat more Flake , I’ve also heard it makes great reef fish bait when skinned .
My personal catch rates for SM in SE Qld have increased dramatically in  numbers in the last 3 years , this is definitely due to increasing my skills around fishing for them .With all respect to the anglers who  partake in fisheries surveys most simply lack the know how , where and when to catch SM and unfortunately may never have the joy of catching one . 

 

 

 

Thanks Neil. I was only using the trips you reported as I am not privy to the trips you didn’t report, so my data was not flawed, but it was biased by the manner it was reported. 
 

the fact that you hooked 25 fish and landed 5 with 20 lost to sharks is not in dispute. So add the 6/6 and that is 31 fish hooked, 11 landed and 20 lost to sharks. And my comments are specifically regarding SM fishing given the management changes to rebuild the stock. 
 

whichever way you skin it, your activities are negatively impacting the stock levels at the moment, and the independently reviewed stock assessment says that it is at levels below that which can sustain itself, so management intervention (closures, bag limit change and reduction in commercial TAC) are required and the stock needs to be rebuilt. You can use all the anecdotal evidence and interviews you want, these are the best scientific estimates that we have.
 

to look at it another way. Consider if the stock assessment is correct, and the TAC reduction, closures and bag limit changes result in rebuilding the stock back to sustainable levels - is a little bit of pain spread across all sectors worth it for the improvement of the stock? Yes your friends and family might miss out on a few feeds when the boat limit drops from 6 to 2 but you can still fish for them  

suppose your anecdotal estimates that the stock is fine is reality, then the shared pain of rebuilding the stock has increased the stock to a point where a regular punter has a good chance of landing a Spanish or two floating pillies on their local reef - is that such a bad thing?

I think our mindset as rec fishers who resist management intervention when we have the proof that stocks are in trouble needs to change. Otherwise we will have more overfished species examples on top of snapper, pearlies and Spanish mackerel. 

There have been huge restrictions on commercial shark fishing in both Qld and NSW in the last 10 years. Harvest has reduced from ~1000tonnes per year to less than 100 tonnes per year in Qld since the introduction of the S (shark) symbol. So common sense would say that shark numbers are rebuilding. 
 

Common sense would also say that because Neil hooked 25 in 2 trips that Spanish mackerel stocks are fine. This would be the case if they were evenly distributed across Qld, didn’t school to feed or spawn and were equally catchable in all conditions.
 

Unfortunately Spanish mackerel are not evenly distributed, they are a migratory neritic (inshore) species that exhibit schooling behaviour to feed and spawn, and are “catchable” due to a range of factors including food availability, water temperature, moon phase etc. This means that someone of Neil’s experience can predict where, when and in what conditions mackerel will be able to be caught, then use his skills to target, hook and land them. The scientific term for this is “hyperstability”. Skilled fishers (rec and commercial) can maintain their catch rates even when stocks are reducing. This feature is taken into account in stock assessments. The glaring issue is that commercial catch rates of mackerel in their traditional catch locations in Nth Qld are seriously reduced, and alarm bells have actually been ringing for many years. Higher Water temps and EAC strength have got Spanish mackerel being caught 100s km south of their usual range, even off Sydney this year! The fact is they are more catchable in SE Qld now than ever before. 
 

The coral trout example is interesting. I’m sure a pro trout doryman can extract up to 100 trout in a day, if the fish are there. Just because you don’t think you could doesn’t mean others can’t. 
 

I guess what I’m trying to promote is rec fishers making good decisions and being part of the solution when it comes to rebuilding depleted stocks. Neil donates his frames and sharked heads to research and is honest about how many sharks take hooked fish, which helps scientists answer questions the improve our understanding of the stock. 
 

I also promote trusting the scientists that contribute to and produce the stock assessments, as they are the experts in the trade. 

I’m not sure that explanation stacks up Bob. You can stop fishing for a species or in an area where the sharks are thick - it’s a decision the fisher can make! And I’m sure it would be a hell of a lot harder for sharks to catch 10 Spanish swimming around that weren’t already hooked by fishers. 

We are talking about a species with serious stock issues, and in order to land 5 fish in the last 2 trip reports, Neil says he hooked more than 25; of which 20 were lost to sharks. So that means 25 fish have been taken out of the stock so Neil can have 5 in two trips. 
 

Is it just me that sees the problem here?

I want to be able to fish for Spanish into the future, but the stock won’t recover if these ratios of loss keep occurring. Think about the number of boats out chasing mackerel on your reef and multiply it up and down the coast. It’s a real issue, and fishers have the power to change their behaviour to help the stock. Failing this, we face more unpopular time closures and/or bag limit reductions, as the stock will continue to decline. 
 

It’s in our hands.