Very Very Basic Newbie Q's

[MoparKevUk]

Hello chaps/chapettes!

Been fishing for about a month now and getting into it, but getting incresingly frustrated by all the terminology used.

Is there a site or post (I searched here, best I could, but get frustrated when I go back to my search entry and the page is expired!!!)

I do not understand rod weights (light/medium/heavy), rod styles, reel numbering, line weights and styles, leaders being heavier(?), hook sizing etc. It's all voodoo to me! I am currently using a Jarvis Walker Combo Redbone 6'6" (cast weight 7-28g, line class 3-6kg) with a Redbone 350 reel (6lb-240yds, 8lb-215yds). It was about $35 down Kmart and has served me well, getting lots of bream, the occasional whiting, a perch and loads of toadies. Tomorrow I'm trying some hardbody top/diving lures, probably to no avail as I am unsure of technique, I'm on a tidal estuary, not sure if I can get there for the tide turn, snags and mangroves are far side, and possibly unreachable on a cast with just a small lure!! I fish off the structure on Tingalpa Creek in the koala reserve area. I just seem to feed the fish with me bait!! I can't even get the line down the bottom without the bait getting stole! My technique(!) with bait now is to cast, then jerk it in, ended up with fish hooked on their bellies and all places!!! That ain't fishing!

More soon, dinner coming up!

[adri4n]

Don't worry, theres no question too basic here. so back to basics,

Rods. now basically the rod weights tell you how 'heavy' they are meaning how heavy a line you should use with them and what sort of fishing its for. For bream and smaller sized fish you could get away with a 1-3kg rod. and for heavier fishing, you'll need heavier rods to handle the fish.

rod action. This is slightly linked to rod weights as heavier rod weights generally have stiffer action. This helps with detecting bites and how sensitive the rods are.

Reel size. Larger sized reels take more line and are more suitable for heavier lines for example your reel can take 215 yds of 8lb monofilament line and shorter amounts of 10lb line because the heavier the line the larger the diameter

As for baitfishing, you'll need some sinkers to get the bait down to the bottom. There are two basic rigs, a paternoster and a running sinker rig have a look here Link

I'm just really skimming the surface here and I'm sure the rest of the guys will chip in, just keep going at it and google is always helpful.

[Feral]

Your rod is "medium", maybe just "light medium" the 350 is the equivalent of 3500 in the reel sizes everyone talks.

1000 is the smallest commonly available, going through to about 4500 for normal estuary fishing. They come nigger, usually for surf rods or serious deep water work.

The size of your combo is pretty much perfect for estuary work, I have that combo myself, its value for money, but I have it mainly for the kids these days.

For what your catching, if you want another setup I'd say go slightly smaller, 2-4kg rod, 2000 or 2500 reel, that will allow your more feel and easier casting of lighter lures.

The rod is a better quality rod than the reel, so if you want to do it in stages, replace the reel first.

[pcsolutionman]

Feral wrote:

They come nigger

something u want to tell us Ferel LMAO :P

ee

[STU]

lmao

[pinkey]

Feral wrote:

1000 is the smallest commonly available, going through to about 4500 for normal estuary fishing.

T.

Not trying to be smart, but ive got a 750 size sedona, its tiny, got it off ebay for a good price, didnt think they had under size 1000. Quite easy to fill with 4lb .

[Feral]

I've got smaller to Pinkey, I love my 50, but as I said they are not common sizes.

[pinkey]

50? im assuming thats the reel on those tiny pen joke sized rods you get hold about 5m of 1lb fireline

[Feral]

pinkey wrote:

50? im assuming thats the reel on those tiny pen joke sized rods you get hold about 5m of 1lb fireline

No mate, It holds exactly 100m of fireline 6lb! Bewdiful and light on my 2kilo live fibre, cast for month with it. (Its reeling in the fish on it that kills you!)

[Cowfish13]

I'll just fill in on a few things as most has been covered already. Rod styles may refer to casting/overhead or spinning rods. Baitcasters are reels that sit on top of the rod and thus, you have the guides (circle things on the rod that the line goes through) pointing up at the sky. With spinning reels (also called threadline), you have the guides pointing down at the water.

With the reel sizes, basically the bigger the number, the bigger the reel (feral has explained it pretty well)

When they say "heavier leaders" just means that the leader (special section of line that ties onto the main line (stuff on the reel)) can support a heavier weight. That is to say, 10lb leader is "heavier" than 6lb as it can support more weight.

Hook sizes are strange. Different brands have different methods. However, in general, if the number does not end with a "/0", the bigger the number, the smaller the hook (ie size 20 is tiny, 2 is an average estuary size). But if the number ends in a "/0", the bigger the number the bigger the hook. Meaning that a 2/0 is smaller than an 8/0.

In order of increasing size, hooks go basically from size 24, through to 1, then the next size up is 1/0 going up to 20/0 or so.

[Gad]

Hi Pommy Kev,

If you pick up a copy of The Great Outdoors Tide Book $4.95 at a newsagent,most have them[2009 is out now],it has info on basic estuary rigs,hooks and sinker sizes basic colour fish id,knots etc in it.Bonus you also get the next 12 months tide times.

All up a handy starter book.

cheers

[MoparKevUk]

Excellent info, guys! Keep it coming. (Got to be the only forum where guys are bragging about how small their equipment is!!!). I use a big sinker as the current is quite strong, but the fish get me bait before I've taken up the slack/waiting for it to get down the bottom! I would like to upgrade to a better general purpose rod/combo for what I'm doing, but I'm loathe to go out and get anything at the moment as my combo seems to be doing alright for what I am doing, just learning and having fun. I am loving going in tackle shops (Kmart and BCF!!!) but the range available is quite daunting. Perhaps a special offer 2500 Daiwa or JW reel would be a start, then get a lighter rod whenever. So what line do you go for when you buy an empty reel? I've seen Daiwas with 2 spools, which seems a good idea to get 2 weight lines in yer box. Does having a lighter combo limit my fish size? As a novice I expect to get broken off a few times, but any advice appreciated. Not sure about this drag setting shenanigans, what's it for and how do you set it to a certain drag? If I'm in the mangrove roots, would a heavier leader help? Why have a leader rated at more than the line? Is this due to stretch of the main line taking the poundage up? How much does a fish weigh? What do you with toadies? Whack 'em? Got bit the other day....Bought some black steel leader (JW) nice pic on the back of the pack showing a blood knot as the knot to use.....Yeah, right!!! How do you make a nice knot with this and the crimp? Hard body lure; Learnt the perfection knot, then found out if it has a split ring you don't need a loop knot! Where can I buy Mutard 3 gang hooks to replace the crap ones on my lures? Are these little 3 gangs gonna hook a big fish? Did I read somewhere about taking the underneath hook off? What's the view on folding the barbs in? Blah Blah! Need knowledge!!!!!!

Jarvis Walker stuff seems very cheap compared with some other stuff, is it really that bad? I was expecting my cheapo to crap out on me pretty quickly, but I've been using it for about 40hrs on the water and it seems fine, although the line seems to be going white......Only to be expected I suppose. Sorry to witter on, I am so glad I found this forum! Tried joining AusFish Forum but went through the sign up stuff and then found I had to pay to post. Not having a PayPal or Credit card yet put paid to that!!! (And what I saved paid for another lure:P )

[MoparKevUk]

What is a baitcaster? And what are the extra knobs for?

[Rocket75]

ummm...Where can I buy Mutard 3 gang hooks to replace the crap ones on my lures? Are these little 3 gangs gonna hook a big fish?...

to answer but one of your questions...The hooks on lures are called Trebles ( 3 points-one hook)

gang hooks are seperate hooks that are joined together to accomodate large / long baits.

The trebles that come with most lures are sufficient for almost all common estuary catches...bigger fish may straighten them, but if that is a problem you are doing better than me:blush:

[MoparKevUk]

D'oh! Sorry about that!! Trebles;) 2 of my lures have mutard trebles, the other 2 look like they are made out of monkey metal. Will try and straighten one out tomorrow for ya!!

Thanks for the reply!

[Rocket75]

OK...next Q...drag settings.

The drag is basically a brake that you can tension to dictate how much line a fish can take when you are fighting it.

Spinning reels normally have a front drag that can be adjusted by turning one way to tighten and the opposite way to loosen.

A large or powerful fish may pick up your bait and run (swim:P ), the idea being that the drag will allow some line to feed out and allow the fish to tire itself out without breaking you off.

If the drag is set too loose, then the fish will be able to swim away without much effort and probably get to cover and you'll loose it.

The drag works independantly of you winding the handle to retrieve line. In esence, the fish can run and take line while you are winding.

A well set drag is normally set to 1/4 to 1/3 the breaking strain of your line...that is a bit advanced though...as a rule use your hand and try to pull line off the reel against the drag, if it comes off really easily, tighten it...if it is locked up and will not come off at all, then a large fish will likely bust the line, so loosen it off accordingly.

I normally have mine set so that I can just pull the line off with moderate effort (if you are fishing in really snaggy areas you may need to tighten it up so the fish can run less and not snag you up).

[Gad]

hi again Pommy Kev

Baitcasters...it`s a compact reel that lure casters graduate to,it sits on top of your rod like an overhead reel.At this stage of your fishing I would suggest you really don`t want to get into,overruns,birds nests,and pissed off in general.

[Cowfish13]

I'll try to answer all of you questions from the above post in chronalogical order:cheer:

A 2500 size reel matched with a 2-4kg rod (roughly) will allow you to catch nearly everything you encounter in an estuary. 10lb monofilament line would be a good start here. Don't worry about the 2nd spool until you start getting the hang of everything and that way you can choose to go heavier or lighter, braid or monofilament. Something around the $100 mark for all of the above will be good enough to start with.

A light combo will limit the size of fish you catch, but only slightly. Your patients will generally decide what happens when (not if!!!) you hook a abig one.

Basically, drag allows the fish to take line off the reel without breaking the line. Try setting the drag to be around 3lb with the 10lb mono (hardish to pull off, but not enough to break the line with any sort of tug).

Don't bother with leaders just yet. But a heavier leader is generally used if you are fishing for fish in a rough environment (ie oyester racks, reef, pilons etc)

In terms of how much does a fish weigh, well it depends on what you catch:P haha. Most of the Bream, whiting and flathead you'de be getting at the moment would all be less than 1kg (2.24lb's), so no worries with the breaking strain of the line.

With the Toadies, if you are not going to eat it, return it to the water unharmed. Applies to all fish as well, no matter what they are

You don't tie knots with the steel leaders. Unless you are targeting sharks, there is no much point in using the steel leaders either

The hooks on the lures generally show the quality of the lure. I wouldn't go upgrading the hooks just yet. Lures are very difficult to begin with, so I'd be spending most of your time using bait at this stage. But those hooks can hook a big fish, the landing of that fish is up to you. Be PATIENT!!

Jarvis Walker doesn't make very good quality stuff compared to other brands (Shimano, Daiwa etc) but it is good enough for a while.

I think that was all of them:silly: Probably 100's of spelling mistakes in my post, but oh well:D

[ellicat]

If you're using too much weight then you will have less chance of feeling the bites. I'd be down sizing the sinker. If you're fishing a stronger current just cast well up current and let it move down and away and then wind in and recast (don't let your line get too slack though). You cover more ground that way and can still feel the bites.

[MoparKevUk]

Thanks again!

Striking and killing!

At the moment I get a few big tugs on the line, whip it back and end up with nothing. I'm assuming the big tugging is a fish nibbling my bait. Do I need to look out for more subtle signs? I read about fish taking the bait and running. Why, after hooking about 40 fish have none of them run? Have I just been lucky when I've struck (or are they too small to run, more likely!!)? What is the science to a fish getting on your hook? Do they just chug the whole thing down, hook and all, turn and get hooked up? Or is it more involved? Is the hook always placed clear of the bait?

I've read up on gutting a fish, but nowhere is there any info on killing it in the first place! Is there a link or info on which types of fish to bleed first, before gutting? Is it acceptable to use a kitten as bait for a bull shark as they have been seen in Tingalpa Creek;) Are fish from Tingalpa Creek edible or is it polluted?

[adri4n]

if none of the fish have run off with the line, is your drag on too tight?

[MoparKevUk]

Excellent advice!

[MoparKevUk]

Can't wait to get out there tomorrow with all this advice!!! (Probably won't catch a thing!!!:S ) Will report back tomorrow. If the lures don't work out I've got some roast chicken and a bag of Cheese Twisties!!

[Gad]

Pommy Kev first I`ll answer your last question,the cat lovers of Australia and snappy tom,won`t allow kittens or cats to be used for bait no matter what!!

If using fish flesh the barb end of the hook stays out[clear of the bait to stop fowling when fish bites.

Simpliest way to kill fish is to severthe part of fish [under neath]that seperates the gills,then bend head backwards to snap the spine.

[Gad]

just to clarify, the point and barb of your hook should always be clear of your bait,no matter what bait your using, so that you get a clean hook up when you strike,on the bite.

[MoparKevUk]

Thanks! I must stress I AM a cat lover, before I get pushed in Tingalpa Creek by an irate cat loving fisherperson!!!:ohmy:

[adri4n]

as a rule of thumb the drag is usually about 1/3 of the breaking strain, so in your case would be around 2-3lbs since you are using 8lb line.

[Gad]

that`s ok mate,apart from that they scratch the sh*t out of you while trying to get them on the hook!!!!!!

[MoparKevUk]

adri4n wrote:

as a rule of thumb the drag is usually about 1/3 of the breaking strain, so in your case would be around 2-3lbs since you are using 8lb line.

Does the drag differ depending on how much line is cast out? Also how do I measure it? Just had a fiddle with me rod (Oooh! Errr!) and I've set it so with the lure secure I can put a bit of pressure on the handle of the reel and the clutch works, I'll be on the water tomorrow and will have an experiment. Thnaks for the advice.

Aren't those stainless steel gloves for when you hook up a kitten??

[Rocket75]

the bite and the hookup...

Different fish tend to attack the bait in differnt ways...

some fish will lightly tap on the bait to give it a try before swallowing it.

Others will come in and scoff it straight down.

Unless you know what sort of fish it is, it can be hard to know what to do when this happens. Trial and error though frustrating is the best way to geta feel for this process.

Some fish (the scoffers!) will basically hook themselves and you have but to wind them in.

Other fish (pickers) will require some action from yourself to set the hook in it's gob.

Standard practice is to watch for bites on the tip of your fishing rod and have the line running over your finger so you can feel them too. Your line should be as "tight" at all times (as little slack as possible) this will help your hookup rate and make bites easier to detect.

Once you are getting bites, wait till you feel some weight on the end of your line (the fish holding your bait) and then smoothly lean back lifting the rod tip and taking up any slack line. This "should" pin the hook into the mouth of the fish.

If you are getting bites and not catching fish, it may be because the fish are too small to get the hook in their cake hole. If that is the case...get a smaller hook on or find some bigger fish!

[MoparKevUk]

Catch and release;

Caught the fish, got it in a wet tea towel, got the hook out, now I have to drop it 6ft (Imperial Pom measurement!) into the water!!! Why are these purpose built fishing platforms so high, surely the fish ain't gonna like that drop!! How do you catch and release a fish off the bridge on Rickertt Rd over Tingalpa Creek?

[Rocket75]

Does the drag differ depending on how much line is cast out? ...

No that will not effect your drag.

Don't worry about measuring your drag at this stage (I never do anyway...) It is just a feel thing...use your hand and your rod (!) or more specifically your reel and pull the line off by hand against the drag to get a feel for it...you should just be able to pull the line off with moderate pressure and the drag should let line out smoothly.

[Gad]

MoparKevUk wrote:

Aren't those stainless steel gloves for when you hook up a kitten??

[Rocket75]

as long as the fish hasn't been out of the water for a long period or been roughly handled, most will make a speedy recovery even from the 2m platform with an inverted 1 & 1/2 twist with pike. Try to make it back into the water as quick as possible and handle it with a wet towel (as you said!) and wet hands so you do not remove it's protective scales and slime.

If the hook is past it's mouth and near it's gills or gut opening, don't try and remove the hook as it will surely do more damage than leaving it in. Just cut the line as close as possible to the hook and let the fish go with the hook in place. It will soon rust away and the fish will pass it in good time.

[Rocket75]

oh yea...before you go snapping and necks and slitting gills...make sure you get yourself a copy of the legal size and bag limits for local waters...and something to measure your catch with too.

Most tackle stores have fish rulers approx $5.00 (alvey brand) that have some of this info on it for common species

[kreel]

this has been a great read, you've certainly had some good advice from some very good anglers Pommie Kev. So I won't stuff that up with my so so advice. I just want to say welcome and keep asking the questions; the answers make terrific reading.

[MoparKevUk]

Thanks again! A lot of toadfish have gone back with my chemically sharpened red Mutard hooks still in 'em! They like to chug a hook down, although I was amused to see other toadfish kissing the toad I'd just thrown back with a bit of squid still up the eye end of the hook!

Any views on barbless or turned down barb hooks? I've heard they are just as effective as a hook with a barb if you keep yer line tight and it's less hassle when you've hooked yerself!! (Still awaiting that little pleasure, though managed to spear meself with a prawn spikey head a few weeks ago!!)

[Gad]

the legal sizes for your most commonly caught fish around here is also included in The Great outdoors Tide Guide,[mentioned earlier in this thread]basic but handy to have.

[MoparKevUk]

Rocket75 wrote:

oh yea...before you go snapping and necks and slitting gills...make sure you get yourself a copy of the legal size and bag limits for local waters...and something to measure your catch with too.

Most tackle stores have fish rulers approx $5.00 (alvey brand) that have some of this info on it for common species

Hi Rocket, I have a fish book and tide table with colour fish section and knots and rigs, complete with legal sizes, don't wanna be an illegal immigrant!! I've got a measure on top of me tackle box, just need a fair size fish to measure! Until I get word on Tingalpa Creek fish edibleness I'm strictly a catch and release guy! As I see it, there is no legal size on Whiting, but having only caught approx 6" examples early in a fishing session, and no Esky, they go back as well. (And me old Mum back in Blighty sez they were what she used to buy for her cat!!!) Still need clarification on Toadys as I have met anglers who say don't put them back, leave 'em high and dry for the crabs....

Kreel! Any advice welcome, mate! I am enjoying this thread and sucking up the info, but perhaps I am asking too many Q's!!!

[MoparKevUk]

Gad wrote:

the legal sizes for your most commonly caught fish around here is also included in The Great outdoors Tide Guide,[mentioned earlier in this thread]basic but handy to have.

Just has a rummage in me tackle box and that is what I have....Very handy! Even identified a fish for some yoofs over Tingalpa, it was a camouflage cod.