drag, rod , and reel question.

[Jeremy_Z]

Hi guys,

I have a few question about drag setting and rod, reel selection. Hope someone can help me.

I know we need to set drag at 25% of breaking point of braid line. But why? Can some one example to me?
 

And , I want to buy a 5-10 kg rod as my heavier gear set up. And it should pair with a 10kg drag reel right? Maybe 4000 or 5000 reel for targeting bigger fish. But some 5000 size reel recommend PE2.5 for 300m. And some good brand PE 2.5is about 19kg test. I’m so confused. Is this right setup?

and the break point of 5-10kg rod is 10kg? Is that means if my drag set as 10kg and mine line is 40kg, the rod will not break?

 

im so confused. Hopefully  some one can help me.

 

[mzaakir]

You've just confused the **** out of me as well, If your looking for roughly a 5-10kg rod id recommend a td blac supercasta or any PE1 to about a PE1.5 setup. Paired with this youd want something about 3000-5000. My personal preferance would be a 3000 or 4000 just depending what im targeting but for me i wouldnt go 5000. My 3000 and 4000 would have a PE1.2 braid or 20lb braid. My 5000 would have 30lb or about a PE1.5, Dont worry too much about the drag and rod breaking, if you have a quality rod you wont have any issues. 

[Hweebe]

10 hours ago, Jeremy_Z said:

I know we need to set drag at 25% of breaking point of braid line. But why? Can some one example to me?
 

 

 

It's mainly because if you hook up to a decent fish that you  may need to apply full drag / load. This may mean at times you could be pushing the limits of the Rod rating. In this case you want something "weaker" and cheaper than your rod to break. It most cases this means letting the braid line break to save your rod from breaking.

[Jeremy_Z]

2 hours ago, mzaakir said:

You've just confused the **** out of me as well, If your looking for roughly a 5-10kg rod id recommend a td blac supercasta or any PE1 to about a PE1.5 setup. Paired with this youd want something about 3000-5000. My personal preferance would be a 3000 or 4000 just depending what im targeting but for me i wouldnt go 5000. My 3000 and 4000 would have a PE1.2 braid or 20lb braid. My 5000 would have 30lb or about a PE1.5, Dont worry too much about the drag and rod breaking, if you have a quality rod you wont have any issues. 

Super casts is the one I want to buy!! 5-10kg rod

if I use 30lb PE for this rod, will rod break if I use drag over 10kg?

 

 

[Jeremy_Z]

13 minutes ago, Hweebe said:

It's mainly because if you hook up to a decent fish that you  may need to apply full drag / load. This may mean at times you could be pushing the limits of the Rod rating. In this case you want something "weaker" and cheaper than your rod to break. It most cases this means letting the braid line break to save your rod from breaking.

So if rod is rateinh at 5-10kg, I need to pair with PE main line which is lower than 10kg? And don’t set drag over breaking point of rod which is 10kg? Is that right?

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

Likely. 

[charlie.hans.fishing]

I highly doubt you'll ever need to use the full 10kg of drag, especially on lighter line like 30lb. 

[charlie.hans.fishing]

10 hours ago, Jeremy_Z said:

Hi guys,

I have a few question about drag setting and rod, reel selection. Hope someone can help me.

I know we need to set drag at 25% of breaking point of braid line. But why? Can some one example to me?
 

And , I want to buy a 5-10 kg rod as my heavier gear set up. And it should pair with a 10kg drag reel right? Maybe 4000 or 5000 reel for targeting bigger fish. But some 5000 size reel recommend PE2.5 for 300m. And some good brand PE 2.5is about 19kg test. I’m so confused. Is this right setup?

and the break point of 5-10kg rod is 10kg? Is that means if my drag set as 10kg and mine line is 40kg, the rod will not break?

 

im so confused. Hopefully  some one can help me.

 

You're overthinking it a bit. Get a rod with a line and cast weight that suits the style of fishing your using it for. Get a reel that seems about right to suit the rod. (1000-2500 reel for rods 1-5kg and 3000 upwards for heaver rods is my general guide). Then, just buy line that you think suits the style of fishing you're doing. For a 5-10kg rod, 30-50lb seems suitable, but I wouldn't worry about any of the PE related stuff. Whenever I select setups I just choose what I believe will go well together. 

[Jeremy_Z]

4 minutes ago, TheCharliefisho said:

I highly doubt you'll ever need to use the full 10kg of drag, especially on lighter line like 30lb. 

Yes I know. But just so confused. I’m a rookie.

can only afford for one heavy setup. Don’t want to make it wrong.

[charlie.hans.fishing]

Just now, Jeremy_Z said:

Yes I know. But just so confused. I’m a rookie.

can only afford for one heavy setup. Don’t want to make it wrong.

I don't have any heavy setups myself but I would choose a rod anywhere from 5-12kg line rating, a heavy cast weight in case you're using heavy lures like metals and slugs, perhaps a 4000-6000 reel with at least 5kg drag, and 20-40lb line. No need to overcomplicate and confuse it. 

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

1 minute ago, TheCharliefisho said:

I don't have any heavy setups myself but I would choose a rod anywhere from 5-12kg line rating, a heavy cast weight in case you're using heavy lures like metals and slugs, perhaps a 4000-6000 reel with at least 5kg drag, and 20-40lb line. No need to overcomplicate and confuse it. 

Agreed. 

[Junky]

Great questions. 

It's very hard to put down on paper without writing a novel, however I recommend a visit to your local tackle shop. 

Could be shown to you in about 10 minutes. 

 

Don't over think it. 

Light rods, small reels, light line and leader. 

Medium rods, medium sized reels, medium sized line. 

See the pattern yet? 

 

Don't worry to much about Max drag capacities. 

Most reels above the $120 mark will give you endless hours of enjoyment.

Always back drag off after use. Next time you use it, wind it up a bit, peel some line out by hand, and adjust accordingly. No need to be over the top with exact figures. You'll understand when you start hooking up to fish. 

 

Buy name brand gear. 

Shimano, daiwa, Penn, Abu Garcia, are great starting points and will have something in whatever size you're after. 

 

Most new graphite rods will only break from defect manufacturing on first load up. Be sure to test before you walk out of shop. They'll show you how to do it. 

If it breaks after that, it's 99% operator error. High sticking is a major contributor, also poor treatment meaning the blank is impacting a surface that is causing it damage and creating a possible breaking point. Next time it loads up, snap. 

So look after your rod. 

[mzaakir]

a supercasta with a 3000 or 4000 reel with either 20lb or 30lb braid would be just find. Id say go for 3000 and 20lb, more fun and just a better fishing experience. 

[Bob9863]

OK now for some more confusion, a 10kg rod more then likely will only handle 5kg of drag. The rod weight and the drag weight don't usually match, that's why the higher end and heavy duty rods have a separate max drag weight. Quite often the weight class is matched to the suitable line thickness rather then what the rod can handle.

Try lifting a 3lt milk bottle full of water with a 6kg rod and see how many hold up to that.

It's particularly common now with PE class rods, they don't have a weight class they have a line thickness compatibility. They usually include a max cast weight and a max drag loading usually at 90°.

A good rule of thumb of mine is if you don't know the drag rating then use half the rod strength, so on a 10kg rod I'd only use 5kg of drag, although I suppose you could switch to lbs too. So for a 10kg rod you would only use 10lb of drag.

You can get rods from the same manufacturer that are close in weight class but miles different in drag class.

The old way to set the drag was to tie the line to something solid, tighten the drag until it holds the rod at a 90° bend then give it a touch more.

 

[Andrew_P]

rule of thumb for rod ratings is that optimum fishing is in the middle of the range. i.e. if you have a 2-4kg set up fish 3kg line (8lb) but it will fish 2kg and 4kg if you need it to. i prefer to choose my lighter rods/ blanks on the lure weight it is designed for. heavy rods i will go the middle of the line rating

setting your drag at ~1/3rd of the breaking strain is a hangover from IGFA game fishing days where they were fishing tested mono lines. this allowed them to up the drag to 1/2 or even 3/4 of the breaking strain of the line if they needed to. you should set your drag at whatever seems right for the fish you are chasing - light if its bream so you dont pull the hooks, heavy for fish like jacks you will be pulling out of the structure. most people i fish with dont measure their drags using scales but set it and adjust depending upon the species they are chasing. remember your reels are designed to give fish drag if they run so you dont snap the line. if you set the drag in the correct range you shouldnt need to adjust mid fight. if you do need to adjust go easy until you are gaining ground on the fish. and remember to back it off before you cast again!

[Bob9863]

As an additional point, other then big GT's ect near reefs/wreaks ect you don't need 10kg of drag, not many people can really handle 10kg of drag for any period of time anyway.

I've caught everything from Arapima and big Red tail catfish to 3m sharks land based only using reels with a max of 7kg of drag, most of the time it was backed off so I didn't cook the drag out.

 

[mangajack]

Buy the rod for the action and strength you want.

Buy the line for the suitability of the target fish. (bay snapper somewhere 10 to 25lb braid)

Set the drag to prevent overloading your line or rod.

The lighter the rod, the more prolonged it will be to boat the fish......the lighter the line same applies....however the lighter gear does get more bites.....the rest is being patient and avoiding the sharks.

[Huxstang]

2 hours ago, Bob9863 said:

As an additional point, other then big GT's ect near reefs/wreaks ect you don't need 10kg of drag, not many people can really handle 10kg of drag for any period of time anyway.

I've caught everything from Arapima and big Red tail catfish to 3m sharks land based only using reels with a max of 7kg of drag, most of the time it was backed off so I didn't cook the drag out.

 

I’m with Bob.  If you look at barra fishing, most bait casting reels are max 6kg drag and the old standard barra rod was a 6kg 6 foot rod now days of course probably more a 6-8kg rod of 7 foot.  

You would never lock up the reel - maybe thumb burn it - but you can still muscle a 5-10kg barra out of a snag without needing 10kg of drag.  So don’t overthink the drag, it needs to be smooth and sustainable (hence why a top end reel is so expensive). 

I always think that if I was a 100kg and someone put 50kg on a rope and told me to run with it then yep I can do it but I will get tired pretty quick.   So a 10kg fish with 5kg of drag will do the same…just not as quickly because they are fitter, but being cold blooded they will deoxygenate (ie why the jew and threadies die if fought for a long time) and hence you can land them.

[bigkingie]

On 14/09/2023 at 12:42 AM, Jeremy_Z said:

Hi guys,

I have a few question about drag setting and rod, reel selection. Hope someone can help me.

I know we need to set drag at 25% of breaking point of braid line. But why? Can some one example to me?
 

And , I want to buy a 5-10 kg rod as my heavier gear set up. And it should pair with a 10kg drag reel right? Maybe 4000 or 5000 reel for targeting bigger fish. But some 5000 size reel recommend PE2.5 for 300m. And some good brand PE 2.5is about 19kg test. I’m so confused. Is this right setup?

and the break point of 5-10kg rod is 10kg? Is that means if my drag set as 10kg and mine line is 40kg, the rod will not break?

 

im so confused. Hopefully  some one can help me.

 

Well, it's 25% of the breaking strain of any line. That's off the reel. If you are setting through a loaded rod, then it is 33%. This is to give you safety margin. You lose some strength through knots. Also the pressure can increase if a fish takes a lot of line. For example if it is dragging a belly through the water. Also the drag increases at the reel as the line load drops and the diameter on the spool gets smaller. 

The rod rating is just a guide to the strength of line that is suitable. If you overload it then you will not exert enough pressure to utilise the line strength.

[mangajack]

I used to use the 25% / 33% rules....sometimes it doesn't cut it at all and you need to step up to 75% and use your rod to absorb the shocks.

After a while you will know your comfort level for drag setting for each of your rods and reels....

Things have come a long way in rod designs, reel drag quality and consistency with lines.

I am very comfortable these days using 50% as my starting point now.

[Bob9863]

I set the drag up to suit the rod not the braid. One reason for this is I use ultra thing high strength braid to get more line on the spool.

So on my stella 5000 I have it spooled with 150m of Shimano Grapler 59lb only .23 diameter. Then about 20m of backing behind it.

The stella has a max drag of 10kg and the braid at 25% is 8kg, and I don't like running drags that hard. I'd presetting my drag with luggage scales at 6kg so as not to over work it.

The rod is a PE 4 so there's no weight at all to go off of. But it's considered to be a 15kg rod. Half of that is a maximum drag setting for a reel in my book as a general rule. So that's 7.5kg so backing that down to 6kg to be on the safe side and balances the set up perfectly.

That's the risk of braid, you could perfectly balance mono line with a kg rated rod and it matched up well. But I guess that's what they are trying to do now with the PE grade rods I suppose.

But if your using lighter line then the rod can handle, then it absolutely pays to set the drag off of the line.

But if in my example I used 150m the 73lb Shimano Grapler and I went off the 25% line rule the drag would be set at over 8kg which would be over my rods drag setting tolerance.

If I put the next size reel on and ran heavier braid like the 89lb or even regular 80lb then it would be 9kg-10kg which would far exceed what the rod can handle.

[mangajack]

The PE ratings are all but useless....I can not see why the industry is adopting it so heavily.

You can get the same PE rating with wildly different breaking strains.

Seeing our rods are designed for working load limits rather than line diameters it does not make sense to use PE ratings.

[Hweebe]

Line ratings and how they are specified probably seem to not have any standard as each region seems to have a different approach.

This basically means you need a calculator / spreadsheet  to convert PE ratings / line diameters / reel sizes to determine what line type and length you need.

[Bob9863]

On 20/09/2023 at 9:49 AM, mangajack said:

The PE ratings are all but useless....I can not see why the industry is adopting it so heavily.

You can get the same PE rating with wildly different breaking strains.

Seeing our rods are designed for working load limits rather than line diameters it does not make sense to use PE ratings.

Because PE ratings are about line diameter, so they determine what line will cast on what rod. It's got nothing to do with strength.

It's a more accurate way to balance line to an outfit, I actually like it. Rod strength isn't that big a factor and the rods are better off with a line and drag rating then they are with just a kg line rating alone.

I see it all as a big move forward.

[Sylvathorn]

On 14/09/2023 at 4:17 PM, Andrew_P said:

rule of thumb for rod ratings is that optimum fishing is in the middle of the range. i.e. if you have a 2-4kg set up fish 3kg line (8lb) but it will fish 2kg and 4kg if you need it to. i prefer to choose my lighter rods/ blanks on the lure weight it is designed for. heavy rods i will go the middle of the line rating

setting your drag at ~1/3rd of the breaking strain is a hangover from IGFA game fishing days where they were fishing tested mono lines. this allowed them to up the drag to 1/2 or even 3/4 of the breaking strain of the line if they needed to. you should set your drag at whatever seems right for the fish you are chasing - light if its bream so you dont pull the hooks, heavy for fish like jacks you will be pulling out of the structure. most people i fish with dont measure their drags using scales but set it and adjust depending upon the species they are chasing. remember your reels are designed to give fish drag if they run so you dont snap the line. if you set the drag in the correct range you shouldnt need to adjust mid fight. if you do need to adjust go easy until you are gaining ground on the fish. and remember to back it off before you cast again!

A lot of great advice so far @Jeremy_Z, and yes PE ratings are about line diameter and are a hangover from Silk ratings I believe.
I'm currently building a PE8 custom rod and am building it to handle anything up to 130lbs - tests on quality Japanese braid (yes a lot of manufacturers still do them) have them breaking at 116lbs and over, so don't totally rely on PE ratings.
Having said that as soon as you tie a knot, the breaking strength decreases (how much depends on the type of knot), so don't worry or overthink it  
And as far as drag goes, I generally use about 1/3 of breaking strain, and I always set hooks on free spool unless spinning lures, but will increase drag with my palm or thumb if needed.
Having said that, if you can build a rod or know someone who can for you, get it built with 7 guides instead of 5 (for a spin stick) and that improves the load handling of the rod. If it doesn't have fancy wraps, it might not cost too much more than a "over the counter" and be better quality than the rods mass produced in China or Malaysia.
Hope that helps,

cheers Misha