Bris river classic.

[TINS]

Hey guys, I was just after some comformation on one of the rules for the BRC.

My understanding is that only legal size fish can be measured which means flathead to 80cm and sharks to only 1.5m.

A couple of the guys I'm fishing with think because its all catch and release that so long as they're above minimum legal size they count but I would have thought that may cause a bit of an issue after reading a previous post in regards to similar concerns.

Any info would be much appreciated.

Cheers Scott.

[Surfingant]

Above legal size counts as long as it is released. If you want to keep one for a feed then all rules and regs must be adhered to. Dead fish are not eligible to be entered either so you need to get your photo before putting the fish in the icebox if you are keeping it.

Event rules and conditions can be found here http://www.australianfishing.com.au/competitions/event-rules-and-conditions

[crazywalrus]

Hey guys, I was just after some comformation on one of the rules for the BRC.

My understanding is that only legal size fish can be measured which means flathead to 80cm and sharks to only 1.5m.

A couple of the guys I'm fishing with think because its all catch and release that so long as they're above minimum legal size they count but I would have thought that may cause a bit of an issue after reading a previous post in regards to similar concerns.

Any info would be much appreciated.

Cheers Scott.

This is where the DPI Rules do not match reality. It is my understanding that these fish over the maximum size are eligible. The banter that has been going on is a bit of fun although there is a legal element to it. The DPI rules are sweeping and lack common sense. A situation where a competition angler has his bag in the live well technically they should not be targeting the species anymore and should not take another fish from the water. Common sense has to prevail. I think you need to limit the time out of the water. Catching a fish with a Max size is a lot different to catching a fish in closed season IMO.

I will be interested to see Admin's interpretation.

[ellicat]

Thread moved to BRC Events section.

[ellicat]

With sharks common sense will prevail and a photo with the angler without removing the shark from the water will give a reasonably good indication to size. If a big mother bully comes in, the history of the event would suggest it will be easy enough to differentiate the size from others. If under 2 metres it would make sense to place the bragmat on or near the shark.

As for removing an oversized flattie from the water to take a pic on a brag mat; well I wont be making a call on that, except to say if you catch a fish and you are not sure if it is legal or not you have to measure it.....

[aussie123]

Bigger sharks are quite easy to measure alongside a boat with a tape measure.

They do eventually quiten down and stop rolling especially if you can keep the boat in gear and slowly tow them along head first into the current.

Holding them level in the water by the dorsal fin and trace helps to settle them down to get a quick measurement.

A wet towel draped over their eyes also helps to settle them.

[aussie123]

I decided to get a proper clarification on these issues today from the DPI.

Now my understanding of the law is you can remove a fish from the water for the purpose of unhooking the fish for release back into the water.

I also believed you can quickly measure or weigh the fish,tag it or take a quick photograph as long as the fish is returned back into the water unharmed and as quickly as possible.

The wording in question within the fisheries regulation of 2008 and the fisheries act of 1994 is the term Immediately.

The answer I got back is the term immediately means just that but I further asked what their definition of the word is in regards to a time frame when it comes to measuring or tagging a fish and for photos.

The time frame given for the word Immediately is as quick as possible without causing any harm to the fish.

This applies to fish caught out of season as well as fish from closed waters and strangely enough to protected species like Mary River Cod as well as all fish with a maximum size limit.

This ruling by no means at all allows the deliberate targeting of a regulated fish or in a regulated waterway but does allow a very quick measurement and photograph as long as the fish is not harmed in any way.

So if anyone does catch a large shark or flathead you are allowed by law to remove it from the water for a quick measurement and photo but the fish must be returned immediately back into the water unharmed.

If you catch an out of season bass or barra you can measure and photograph the fish before release but you cannot deliberately go and target them out of season and you must cease fishing and move one if you continue catching them in that spot.

You cannot go and target murray cod during a closed season and cannot ever target Mary River Cod within their natural ranges but you can get a quick pic if you do accidently catch one.

[tomca]

just to keep the precious ones on the site happy, if I see the midget or anyone else targetting sharks larger than 1500mm I will put a couple of 15/0's through them and send them out as livies as punishment for flouting the laws

[rayke1938]

I decided to get a proper clarification on these issues today from the DPI.

Now my understanding of the law is you can remove a fish from the water for the purpose of unhooking the fish for release back into the water.

I also believed you can quickly measure or weigh the fish,tag it or take a quick photograph as long as the fish is returned back into the water unharmed and as quickly as possible.

The wording in question within the fisheries regulation of 2008 and the fisheries act of 1994 is the term Immediately.

The answer I got back is the term immediately means just that but I further asked what their definition of the word is in regards to a time frame when it comes to measuring or tagging a fish and for photos.

The time frame given for the word Immediately is as quick as possible without causing any harm to the fish.

This applies to fish caught out of season as well as fish from closed waters and strangely enough to protected species like Mary River Cod as well as all fish with a maximum size limit.

This ruling by no means at all allows the deliberate targeting of a regulated fish or in a regulated waterway but does allow a very quick measurement and photograph as long as the fish is not harmed in any way.

So if anyone does catch a large shark or flathead you are allowed by law to remove it from the water for a quick measurement and photo but the fish must be returned immediately back into the water unharmed.

If you catch an out of season bass or barra you can measure and photograph the fish before release but you cannot deliberately go and target them out of season and you must cease fishing and move one if you continue catching them in that spot.

You cannot go and target murray cod during a closed season and cannot ever target Mary River Cod within their natural ranges but you can get a quick pic if you do accidently catch one.

Was that a verbal interpretation of the rules or did they give it in writing. ?

I have inquired previously on this matter and the definition of immediate is without delay which rules out photographs and measuring.This was from Tony Ham the manager of recreational fisheries.

Cheers

Ray

[aussie123]

Hiya Ray

This was from an email from Tony Ham as well.

Here is his 1st email

From: Ham, Tony

Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 4:45 PM

To: roxboy_@hotmail.com

Subject: Fisheries regulations

Lance,

In response to your question regarding immediately, it does mean immediately. However, to assess wether it is a fish over the maximum size you have to have the opportunity to measure it. So you would be fine as long as the actions are quick..

This would also apply to the protected species, or fish taken in a closed season…

Please call me on 34056805 if you need any further information…

Regards

Tony Ham

His second brief email he sent off his blackberry which was to solely clarify the measuring and photographing of protected species and out of season fish and any fish with a max size limit.

Lance you can measure the fish and photograph it.

--------------------------

Sent using BlackBerry

[rayke1938]

Thanks Lance he seems to have relaxed his opinion somewhat since I corresponded with both him and Anita Savage.

Anita was very pedantic about the definition of the word immediate.

I was not having a go at you it is just that a lot of people in the call centre are not fully aware of the regulations and quite often give out wrong/misleading information.

I now direct all my inquiries to Deedi in writing and request a written answer.I have been waiting over 3 weeks for a ruling on the disposal of noxious fish.

Cheers

Ray

[aussie123]

I am a bit like you Ray and have been dealing with fisheries for many a year but for me it's been both as a rec and commercial guy.

I have learnt many years ago to never ring up,it always must be in writing and always from the top person themself because you can ring up 3 times in a row and get 3 different answers.

I did specify today that I want a clear and precise point of ruling on the issue regarding the term Immediately and also regarding C&R ect of protected fish directly from the fisheries act and not an interpretation of the law from a general fisheries inspector.

[aussie123]

just to keep the precious ones on the site happy, if I see the midget or anyone else targetting sharks larger than 1500mm I will put a couple of 15/0's through them and send them out as livies as punishment for flouting the laws

While we are at it we may as well open this can of worms too.

The fisheries act has a 1500mm max size limit on the taking of sharks for consumption but I do not know of any rulings that say you cannot target larger sharks for sporting or tagging reasons.

There may be a ruling some where that states you cannot fish for larger sharks but I cannot remember ever seeing one.

I will have a dig around and see what I can come up with.

[AFO]

To answer the original question, yes oversize fish can be submitted.

[Dinodadog]

My phone calls to DPI were answered the same as Ray, they were for bass in closed season. They wonder why people are confused, depends who you talk to as towhat answer you get.

[ellicat]

With sharks common sense will prevail and a photo with the angler without removing the shark from the water will give a reasonably good indication to size. If a big mother bully comes in, the history of the event would suggest it will be easy enough to differentiate the size from others. If under 2 metres it would make sense to place the bragmat on or near the shark.

As for removing an oversized flattie from the water to take a pic on a brag mat; well I wont be making a call on that, except to say if you catch a fish and you are not sure if it is legal or not you have to measure it.....

Excellent call Brian !

[The Mad Hughesy]

i was having major internet troubles last night and wasnt able to register for the event. and now its saying its closed and i cant register....it says you can register on the day but i dont know how...

[rayke1938]

My phone calls to DPI were answered the same as Ray, they were for bass in closed season. They wonder why people are confused, depends who you talk to as towhat answer you get.

All my correspondence was specifically about bass in closed season maybe even the managers have different opinions about different species.

Cheers

Ray

[Carter]

So if an oversized, and undersize fish can be measured have its picture taken and no take fish like Mary river cod can be measured and have its picture taken without causing a fuss on this site why cant a Barra out of season have its picture taken?

If taking a picture of a Barra is illegal than the same would apply to undersize, oversized and no take species, they all have to be returned imediately to the water. This site is full of illegal activity :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

Nobody will ever get fined for taking a quick pic and returning the fish to the water.

[madmullet]

just to keep the precious ones on the site happy, if I see the midget or anyone else targetting sharks larger than 1500mm I will put a couple of 15/0's through them and send them out as livies as punishment for flouting the laws

well mate i will be in a 20ft cruise craft with 2 80w's and 2 50w's out the back of the boat, you can try and put acouple of 15/0's in me but you wont get far.

besides the fact that it is NOT eligal to target sharks over the 1.5m mark

[AFO]

i was having major internet troubles last night and wasnt able to register for the event. and now its saying its closed and i cant register....it says you can register on the day but i dont know how...

email sent.

regos have been opened up til saturday night, however it is now the on the day price of $60 and only paypal method is allowed.

Angler Number may take an hour or two to come through as well after you register.

Otherwise you will be able to register at Event HQ at Colmslie from 9am -12 pm Sat or Sun

[tomca]

just to keep the precious ones on the site happy, if I see the midget or anyone else targetting sharks larger than 1500mm I will put a couple of 15/0's through them and send them out as livies as punishment for flouting the laws

well mate i will be in a 20ft cruise craft with 2 80w's and 2 50w's out the back of the boat, you can try and put acouple of 15/0's in me but you wont get far.

besides the fact that it is NOT eligal to target sharks over the 1.5m mark

I thought it was obvious I was taking the piss, but if you are one of the precious ones thats fine

[madmullet]

just to keep the precious ones on the site happy, if I see the midget or anyone else targetting sharks larger than 1500mm I will put a couple of 15/0's through them and send them out as livies as punishment for flouting the laws

well mate i will be in a 20ft cruise craft with 2 80w's and 2 50w's out the back of the boat, you can try and put acouple of 15/0's in me but you wont get far.

besides the fact that it is NOT eligal to target sharks over the 1.5m mark

I thought it was obvious I was taking the piss, but if you are one of the precious ones thats fine

:silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: sorry, i cant reed sarcasim , if i new it was sarcastic i wouldnt have commented. mybad

[ellicat]

Phew ! :woohoo:

Early morning blue narrowly avoided

(That may have constituted illegal behaviour too)

[aussie123]

So if an oversized, and undersize fish can be measured have its picture taken and no take fish like Mary river cod can be measured and have its picture taken without causing a fuss on this site why cant a Barra out of season have its picture taken?

If taking a picture of a Barra is illegal than the same would apply to undersize, oversized and no take species, they all have to be returned imediately to the water. This site is full of illegal activity :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

Nobody will ever get fined for taking a quick pic and returning the fish to the water.

Heya Carter

You are fine to measure and quickly take a photo of any Barra that you may accidently catch.

Barra was one of the fish I specifically asked about because of the rucus you guys got over the fish you caught last month.

[The Mad Hughesy]

i was having major internet troubles last night and wasnt able to register for the event. and now its saying its closed and i cant register....it says you can register on the day but i dont know how...

email sent.

regos have been opened up til saturday night, however it is now the on the day price of $60 and only paypal method is allowed.

Angler Number may take an hour or two to come through as well after you register.

Otherwise you will be able to register at Event HQ at Colmslie from 9am -12 pm Sat or Sun

all registered now

thanks for re opening it

[aussie123]

I have got another ruling on the sharks from the DPI.

If you accidentally catch an oversize shark you are legally allowed to measure and photograph it but if you see a large shark swimming in the water you are NOT allowed to Take Or Attempt To Take it.

Therefore the deliberate targeting of larger sharks over 1500mm would be deemed as illegal.

So now we have the issue of gear set in a boat.

If you are in a river or possibly even in the bay with large heavy game outfits set with heavy shark traces and large hooks and baits you could have a lot of explaining to do.

[tomca]

Yep that was how I interpreted that bit of legislation. Another example is tossing bass lures around the Mary Catchment using 8lb gear is fine, but the moment I start casting big cod lures on a 30lb outfit I am no longer deemed to be targetting bass, so any reasonable officer would assume I am targetting cod and I would deserve the ass kicking. And I always assumed that if a shark is over 1.5m long it is 'no take' so would fall into the same category as bass/barra in closed season, Mary cod in its natural catchment, dugong, turtle, platypus, etc.

[aussie123]

Yep that was how I interpreted that bit of legislation. Another example is tossing bass lures around the Mary Catchment using 8lb gear is fine, but the moment I start casting big cod lures on a 30lb outfit I am no longer deemed to be targetting bass, so any reasonable officer would assume I am targetting cod and I would deserve the ass kicking. And I always assumed that if a shark is over 1.5m long it is 'no take' so would fall into the same category as bass/barra in closed season, Mary cod in its natural catchment, dugong, turtle, platypus, etc.

Yup,thats totally correct.

On the MRC issue,lure size alone can be enough to be deemed as targeting cod but that one would come down to the individual inspector on the day and how narky he is at the time.

A lot of lures we use for Yellas are also great cod lures but then you can go that next step to cod only lures.

In reality it boils down to a moral issue from the angler,are you really going there to secretly target cod or are you after Bass and Yellas only.

[tomca]

and to be completely hipocritical, if you plan on releasing the shark anyway, regardless of size, what difference does it really make if its a 90cm bully or a 2 metre tiger?

[The Mad Hughesy]

If it's illegal to target sharks over 1.5m, why to most tackle shops like bcf, tackleworld etc sell 1000lbs premade shark traces with monster J hooks...u cant tell me to target a 150cm fish

[aussie123]

and to be completely hipocritical, if you plan on releasing the shark anyway, regardless of size, what difference does it really make if its a 90cm bully or a 2 metre tiger?

I personally do not see any problem with catching large sharks as a sportfish and/or for tagging purposes and that is why I asked the question to the DPI.

In reality over the past years larger sharks were mostly released anyway and I think the numbers of 1.5m plus sharks that were traditionally killed by rec anglers would have only been a very small amount in the grand scheme of the fishery.

[aussie123]

If it's illegal to target sharks over 1.5m, why to most tackle shops like bcf, tackleworld etc sell 1000lbs premade shark traces with monster J hooks...u cant tell me to target a 150cm fish

Fisheries legislation only covers the use of that gear and has no powers over the wholesale/retail sales of fishing gear.

Also wire traces like that can be used for large cod or in other states for catching sharks.

Years ago it was illegal to use gill nets but you could still buy them in every tackle shop,corner store and a few service stations as well.

They were only deemed illegal under the fisheries act if you were caught with them On or Adjacent to a waterway.

[madmullet]

i have just had a very lengthy decussion with a fisheries officer form pinkinba and i short, their is no set law that you canot target a shark that is over 1.5m if you have the intent of either tag and release or release purpose only. if you are out their to target these sharks with intent on keeping them ( eg if you have big gaffs aboard ect )then it is deemed you are targeting for take purpose.

[madmullet]

and to be completely hipocritical, if you plan on releasing the shark anyway, regardless of size, what difference does it really make if its a 90cm bully or a 2 metre tiger?

i do agree with this. i target sharks 90% of the time when i am fishing. 8/10 sharks i release and take the odd one for eating. now what is the differance between my logan river 90cm bully that is released to a 3m bullie released.

if fished for in a proper fasion ( eg circle hooks and none stainless so they can rust ) and the dpi has no prob with it, then their is no harm done.

[pancakes_and_haggis]

Fishy Politics hey. Just get out n catch dam things :cheer:

[madmullet]

Fishy Politics hey. Just get out n catch dam things :cheer:

well hopefully i will put chris onto them tonight, i myself didnt enter cause i have to tile 60sqm over the weekend so i offered a landbased compenitor a spot on my boat and i would take them fishing

[pancakes_and_haggis]

Good work mate another tireless favor!

[The Mad Hughesy]

Fishy Politics hey. Just get out n catch dam things :cheer:

well hopefully i will put chris onto them tonight, i myself didnt enter cause i have to tile 60sqm over the weekend so i offered a landbased compenitor a spot on my boat and i would take them fishing

and it's very much appreciated

[pancakes_and_haggis]

I'm sure it is mate you'll get a few boys! Positive mind frame, you'll be glassed out in glorious sunshine sipping coldies n wrestling with the big boys

(well perhaps not the coldies Kurt)