barra's in boats

[Twahoo]

Hi all. New to this forum, so please be gentle team.

The Barra I am referring to here is the Ford Falcon motor - not the fish, but we all would enjoy catching the latter!

I am restoring an old wooden clinker boat and want to replace a tired old Volvo Penta petrol motor. It has been suggested I fit a Ford Barra six-cylinder motor (used right up until Ford stopped producing Falcons, Territory's etc) here in Australia.

Yes, I realise there are many other varieties of motors that fit in a boat. But I don't want a V8 due to space limitations and a diesel would likely be too expensive. A used Barra motor with lower K's can be purchased reasonable cheaply. So a straight six appeals.

Therefore, why not the Barra with MPI and ECU rather than, say, an old Mercruiser carby version or whatever? What will the Barra need to marinise it (heat exchanger acknowledged, alternator, starter motor etc)?

Does anyone run a Barra in their boat? How does it perform? Did you marinise it yourself or get a marine mechanic to do the work? Estimated costs? Dog clutch or Borg Warner Velvet Drive? (I have one of those, a 70C, rated to 200hp - will it handle the Barra power?).

I know petrol inboard motors need specific safety components and insurance might be an issue ... but hey, that's what the old boat started out with back in the early 1970s.

I would appreciate any advice and suggestions (I already have a boat with an outboard and, no, I'm not going to use the old Golley for barbecue wood!)

Thanks in advance.

 

[Angry51]

Welcome to the forum, don't know anything about inboards.

But someone will come along to help out.

Dont use it for BBQ wood, good luck.

Keep us posted on how you go, with pics.

[Bretto77]

Welcome. I have no experience with those engines in boats. Sounds like a project that is going to keep you busy. 

[Twahoo]

Thanks Angry. You don’t seem to be living up to your name!!

I will keep everyone informed as things develop further. 

 

[Twahoo]

Bretto. Thanks. Yep. The old boat was built in the late 1960s early 70s by Jim Golley, a well known SA boat builder of his day. I’m sure many Croweaters of that era would get a bit nostalgic if I went on and mentioned Cape Jervis, Backstairs Passage, Kangaroo Island, big snapper and tuna!

It is certainly going to be a project but I have to save it. 

[Bretto77]

A project with determination is a great start. I will run it by the fitters at work for opinions.

[Twahoo]

Thanks Bretto. Appreciate any opinions and feedback. 

[ellicat]

Are you able to service, maintain and repair it ?

I see potential problems taking a barra motor to a marine mechanic, and also taking a boat to a vehicle mechanic. lol  Maybe I have no idea. I'm just a retired bean counter, so such things are a mystery to me.

[ellicat]

PS Welcome to the forum.

[Angry51]

6 minutes ago, ellicat said:

 I'm just a retired bean counter, 

...long beans or the snake bean, or ,bless me, has beens?

[Twahoo]

Hi Ellicat. Good points but most of the inboard motors in boats are based on engines originally designed for cars - like a Chev block - so we should be able to make it work.

One of the issues - apart from the hostile environment of sea and salt and cooling the motor - is the fact these engines must run at constant higher revs when you head off to sea. So they are working hard all the time to keep the boat planing at speed - whereas the same motor (say in your 2015 Falcon) will get a “rest” as you ease back on the accelerator and select cruise control. (There’s a name for that mechanical process but don’t ask me - someone will know). 
Appreciate the interest. I’m just a “has been” but the older I get the better I was!

[Junky]

Hell yes. 

This sounds like a fun project. 

Please keep us posted on your adventures. 

 

I asked the missus, she's a grease monkey, and she laughed but said, why not, worth a try. 

I bet someone laughed when the first bloke made an outboard. 

Electrics (ecu etc) need to be in a water tight location, was her concern. 

 

Definitely keep this thread updated with your progress. 

[Twahoo]

Thanks Junky. If your lady wants to offer more advice I will happily take it.

She’s right about keeping the electrics like the ECU dry. I’ll get a Tupperware cake container!
Some of my mates who dabble in motor sport came up with the suggestion of the Barra.

But they’re petrol heads who only get their feet wet from the beer they spill in the pits after a win. Rare now if you’re a Ford fan!

I am doing more research with help from some clever professionals but I’m hoping this forum will continue to be supportive and provide some advice.

All the best. 

[Junky]

11 hours ago, Twahoo said:

Thanks Junky. If your lady wants to offer more advice I will happily take it.

She’s right about keeping the electrics like the ECU dry. I’ll get a Tupperware cake container!
Some of my mates who dabble in motor sport came up with the suggestion of the Barra.

But they’re petrol heads who only get their feet wet from the beer they spill in the pits after a win. Rare now if you’re a Ford fan!

I am doing more research with help from some clever professionals but I’m hoping this forum will continue to be supportive and provide some advice.

All the best. 

G'day Twahoo. 

 

She has nothing more to offer in respect to fitting a barra to a boat. 

She does say that they are an iconic Australian built motor that revolutionised the Ford falcon and its popularity, oh, and they're tough as nails, in cars. 

They love turbos (few internal mods required if they're not factory turbo) and revving lots. We kept our old NA BA Fairmont for this reason. It will get a big hair dryer one day and she will build the motor so it can handle it. 

 

I will ask her Dad, my F.I.L, and see what he says. He's a boatie, and a bloody good mechanic too. 

 

Would be good to see this project happen. 

Would be just as good to see you enter a barra fishing comp with it.   

 

[mangajack]

I think you will find the ECU may not work without other parts of the car's input and force it into crank no start or limp mode. Car engines are getting too damned complicated to easily fit into other things like boats.

I would be looking for a diesel engine with an injector pump to marinize. They are generally very reliable and adaptable and relatively cheap these days.

Do not go common rail diesel unless it is designed for equipment....equipment models only get input from sensors pertaining to the engine,  as in air delivery system, cooling system, exhaust system and oil system.

How many horsepower are you actually looking for?

[Twahoo]

Very important issues Mangajack. I have been told the ECU could be reprogrammed to accept the changed data coming from the motor which has been marinised. That would be, for example, the sensor components you mention.

But I’m not really up to speed myself on that technical detail. I’ll need some expert help there. My race car mates might be useful if I can get them near a boat!!

I could certainly go with a diesel so long as it’s not too big and heavy. And I’m very wary of old motors like Volvo 165s etc and the cost of parts. Turbos also burn out on them (I’ve had 3 do that to me!). 
Could you suggest the type/brand of diesel you are suggesting?

I need about 170-200-250hp to get the boat moving.

It currently has an old Volvo Penta aq170B petrol six with triple carbies (yes that’s how they came in the 1970s). But it has a cracked manifold, no water circulation pump and other bits missing plus it’s seized. So probably time to wave goodbye to that.

There’s a Borg Warner velvet drive 70c attached which is rated to about 200hp. So it would be helpful to the pocket to use that. Or sell it on to help cover costs.

I’m open to any suggestions.

Appreciate all and any advice. Thanks.

 

[Bretto77]

I spoke to one of the fitters at work today and he was leaning much the same way as @mangajack. He said he would go for a diesel...

[Huxstang]

Barra can be programmed stand alone without the rest.  Guys are putting them in everything - mate has one in a HG Holden Delivery (if in Brisbane and you see a light green one with VB signs that is it) with over 1000hp.  Not suggesting you go that way at all.

Personally I would go with a Toyota 1HDT or 1HDFT which is essentially the Yanmar 6LP so you will get the gear to marinise.

[Twahoo]

Huxstang thanks for your comments. Very interesting. I’ll check out the Toyota suggestion. Cheers.

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

Welcome to the forum Twahoo, hope you get it sorted out. 

[Twahoo]

Just letting those interested know that progress is slowly moving ahead on the Barra project but nothing much to report at this stage apart from the fact it's necessary to have some revealing discussions with insurance companies to get their perspectives. But plenty of ski and race boats have petrol motors, don't they?! And plenty with old carbies whereas the Barra is MPI/EFT.

Buying the Barra at the right price and condition I have discovered is challenging - and it needs to be priced well as the add-on marinising bits don't come cheap!

So now I'm grinding away on the old trailer...