Braid issues

[Bagless]

Hi there,

New to the forum. Had a recent bad experience with some braid and would appreciate your feedback.

Bought some 40lb / 18.14kg Sunline Super PE for my bait runner.

Been using it for about 2months and had a couple of surprising incidents.

First one was after I got well snagged and decided to pull for a break/hook straighten. Having had experience with heavy braid knew that it would take quite a bit of strain to snap it. But to my surprise broke with very little resistance. My next surprise and most annoying experience was hooking into my first decent fish on the new gear. I'd barely struck and the line snapped like cotton. This was using a 2m mono leeder for a bit of shock absorption. It was interesting to note that the braid snapped just under my float, which was not near any knots.

This prompted me to do some tests where I found the line extremely vulnerable to sudden shocks, and considerably weaker than I’d expect under gradual pressure.

I took the line back to my local tackle shop for some advice. I was informed that there are occasions where they get a bad batch so they very patiently decided to do some tests to check it over.

Firstly I tied my usual knot (Palomar) and we tried pulling it with some scales to approximately measure what level of resistance it would brake under. It snapped around 7kg. Next a member of staff tied a quick knot (not sure what) and we repeated the test. It snapped at 7kg. Then we tried a bimini twist. This time we pulled up to 12kg at which point the member of staff didn’t fancy going any further for fear of the resulting whiplash. Now this result was obviously quite a surprise. I can understand that different knots will yield different braking strains. But would you realistically expect a standard Palomar to give approximately 40% of the lines rating? I also expect that even with the bimini twist we would not have been able to get to the 18.14kg line rating.

After these tests the tackle shop was satisfied that the line was behaving correctly and that I’d best learn the bimini twist.

Now I can’t help but feel a little dissatisfied with this line and the outcome. My conclusions are that the lines cons are; Little/No shock resistance, relatively poor knot strength and almost no abrasion resistance Vs the pros of low diameter and great casting ability. I think from my perspective all I ever want from a line is reliability and confidence, to know that it will be up to the challenge when the time comes.

The simple fact that the tackle shop has had experience of faulty batches leaves me with next to no confidence. Why would I pay $60 odd for a line that has reliability issues?

Anyway would be great to hear your thoughts/experiences on this matter. I hope I’m not alone in this.

:S

[Bagless]

Apologies no idea how this ended up in the 'Going Fishing Noticeboard'.

Obviously need some practise at this forum malarkey

[Cowfish13]

I've had a few weird experiences with the Super PE as well. For the spools I have it on at the moment, I just tie my knots very carefully and test them by getting a mate to pull really hard on it as a fish would. I havn't lost any fish with this yet, but occaisionally, it takes 3-4 knot-retieings to get an acceptable knot

If you are not confidant using it, as harsh as it sounds, I'd get rid of it and replace it with some other braid. Tufline is pretty cheap (about $35 for 150m) and seems to be pretty consistant.

[nadders]

haha funny you posted that cowfish cause i was gonna say the reverse :blush:

i ordered in some tuffline (got it cheap so not destroyed) and have had some seriously out of line breakages. the braid even snapped 1foot above the reel while working a surface lure :\

now im not sure if its because i vigorously ran it through chux wipes to get rid of the superglue coating (horrible casting until that coating is gone, then its a dream line in terms of feel) but i had 3-4 random breaks on that spool

never had problems with sunline super PE. but like i said the spool of tuffline i had problems with coudl be because of my treatment while spooling. still have some left, will experiement. that said the coating on my tuffline was really out of order, so so very sticky and 4-5 normal sessions didnt remove it :|

[Dusky]

I had a similar experience with PE braid, but it was 6lb, line kept on snapping with very little pressure, even when doing a cast on occasions ??

Occasionally, i would get tip wrap from the line being so thin then shortly after the line would snap, with me just tugging it to tie on a new lure !!

I took it bak to the tackle shop and they said the same thing as you, occasionally they get a bad batch, so the guy just gave me a choice of some more line, so I chose some live fibre TX.

Maybe the PE as you say cant handle sudden shocks ??

I surely won't be using it again!!

Cheers

[yoyo]

Mate i had huge issues with 6lb Super PE, tossed it.... wouldnt hold a decent knot, heaps of wind knots....

I then heard it was better in the heavier strains so put some 15lb Super PE on a different reel and it was actually really good. Unfortunately half that spool ended up wrapped around Smithys prop out wide off Caloundra a few months back..............

If you're thinking of changing lines, maybe try some Nitlon, or just old trust Fireline.

I have some 10lb nitlon on a Tierra 3000 and it's really nice stuff..

[kiara_poltegerist]

from my experience, every line has it's own characteristics, you cant use one knot for every line. PE, GSP and normal braid, all handle differently with different knots.

an example - fireline below 10lb. when you tie a half blood direct to the lure/swivel/snap, the knot gives way reallllly easily, prolly at 20-30% of the line's rated poundage. but i find that if you double the line before attemping your knot, the line breaks around probably double it's rated poundage, if you do break it before it cuts you. doesnt apply to fireline-leader connections tho, i find that fireline straight to the leader works very well and hardly fails me with hte varivas knot.

for PE type lines, i find that they cast better, but need too much care when doing any knots with them - needing at least a PR knot to hold fast enough for proper fishing, and in my experience, their abrasion resistance is really lousy.

[Feral]

ah - whats a PR knot Kiara (I already looked up varivas knot, dunno how that would go on a heavy leader, might not pull tight very well on the leader bit)

[nadders]

PR knot is like the mid knot, basically just tons of wraps of braid around leader in a certain pattern closed off with tons of half hitches (in as simplistic terms as possible)

varivas knot isn't great with heavy leaders, the knot becomes bulky and for leaders say 40lb above an albright is more manageable imo

i used to use varivas knot too but ive since found albright more manageable, just normal if using 20lb main 20lb leader, and i bimini if using 40 and above leader

[kiara_poltegerist]

Feral wrote:

ah - whats a PR knot Kiara (I already looked up varivas knot, dunno how that would go on a heavy leader, might not pull tight very well on the leader bit)

here's a detailed explanation with close up pictures of the PR knot feral. http://www.jigsdirect.com/eMerchantPro/pc/fishing_knots.asp

for light PE lines and PE type lines such as stren superbraid, i find it's the only knot that will hold the proper knot strength. any other knot has resulted in lures sailing off on a one way ticket. it looks really complicated to tie, but once you tie a decent PR knot, it just stays on indefinitely, especially on the heavier lines. I've got a PR knot that's been on my Ocea jigger for almost 2 years now, and it hasnt failed on any of my trips!

the varivas knot has never failed me on a fish yet. and compared to any other knot for leader-braid with light lines, i find that it has always resulted in more recovered terminal tackle/lures than other knots. when the tip guide size allows it, the overhand knot should be done with 3 loops, i find it significantly increases the knot strength. the half blood knot gripping the braid, i find 15 loops over the leader to be a good number for the best strength.

[Bagless]

Thanks for all the feedback.

Seems that PE lines are perhaps better suited to the more hardcore/serious angler. Someone whom enjoys the extra refinement and using tools for knots. I certainly wish the line manufacturers provided knot instructions when you bought their line. That way you’d have the extra confidence of tying the most appropriate knot to attain maximum braking strain. It really is quite an expensive and frustrating mistake in my case.

After all the issues I really had no choice but to buy some new line. After initially being swayed by some fireline (something I’ve had very reliable experience of) I instead found some ‘Sufix Performance Fuse’ on special for $56 300yds 30lb test.

It’s slightly more supple than the fireline at the same test, although very coarse compared to the super PE. So I very much doubt it will cast as well. But that being said I did some quick tests with the sufix and was pleased to see that with some shock tests between 2 60lb wire traces it actually busted the swivels on the trace without snapping. And under gradual strain it took immense pressure to persuade it to break, no doubt considerably more than 30lbs. I’m feeling my confidence coming back . Hopefully it will also be durable.

Time will tell.

[ryanyoung]

I use berkely 30lb braid and stren 20lb, I haven't had a drama with them. Some of the other braids I have tried have been less than satisfactory though, forgive me but I can't remember their names!

My choice for future braid purchases will be stren hands-down, it is nice and light, high vis, and casts well.

Limited experience,

Ryan.

[yoyo]

Sufix provide knot tying examples with their spools, i recently put some Sufix Matrix Pro on a reel...

[Bagless]

Now that you mention it Berkley line also has knot instructions, which funnily enough is where I first learnt the palomar. But I'd be pretty confident that most manufacturers don't bother. And that definitely includes sunline .

[kiara_poltegerist]

Bagless wrote:

Thanks for all the feedback.

Seems that PE lines are perhaps better suited to the more hardcore/serious angler. Someone whom enjoys the extra refinement and using tools for knots. I certainly wish the line manufacturers provided knot instructions when you bought their line. That way you’d have the extra confidence of tying the most appropriate knot to attain maximum braking strain. It really is quite an expensive and frustrating mistake in my case.

After all the issues I really had no choice but to buy some new line. After initially being swayed by some fireline (something I’ve had very reliable experience of) I instead found some ‘Sufix Performance Fuse’ on special for $56 300yds 30lb test.

It’s slightly more supple than the fireline at the same test, although very coarse compared to the super PE. So I very much doubt it will cast as well. But that being said I did some quick tests with the sufix and was pleased to see that with some shock tests between 2 60lb wire traces it actually busted the swivels on the trace without snapping. And under gradual strain it took immense pressure to persuade it to break, no doubt considerably more than 30lbs. I’m feeling my confidence coming back . Hopefully it will also be durable.

Time will tell.

mate, i'd recommend berkley whiplash, FINS Evolution or Spiderwise Fusion if you're looking at using braid for baitfishing over a long period of time. I find they have the best value for money vs performance ratio.