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maybe coming to a bridge near you ?????/

maxi

By maxi
in Saltwater

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maxi Newbie

maxi

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this could be a bit scary to us all.

my mate Gary (squidgie) Palmer (who is a scribe for BnB) has dug up some info on the electrification of concrete bridges, he is doing more digging as i write this, will keep you all informed as the info comes to hand, it is posted on another fishing site but will wait for the ok from angus to say where, otherwise i will just relay it here........

shit i cant copy and paste here can i. would be so much easier if i could...ok ...this info is more than relevant to all fishos who fish anywhere near or above bridges in our waterways, which is about 99.0 % of us.. Angus i need you to ok me to tell the members where it can be viewed.....it is extremely relevant info for us all..will pm you..

maxi

I thought I would just let you fishers out there know that the RTA has powered up the Missingham bridge at Ballina NSW, now by powered up I mean they have current running through pylons to stop barnacles and oysters or any other marine growth from growing on pylons, what does this mean to us, well no marine growth no fish, and I mean no fish.

Now just think about this how many of you guys and gals that are land based and fish bridges for herring, silver biddies for bait or for that matter from your boat, and use them from the bridge to catch jew, flathead, bream and jacks, well I’m sorry to say that will be a thing of the passed for some as I have found out as Missingham Bridge down here in Ballina NSW is now near fishless.

Now from my observation I don’t think that herring or silver biddies feed on pylons they just love to play under bridges in the day and night as specially bridges that have lights on them, some friends have dived under Missingham Bridge in the last two months and have found it near totally fishless and that was also around 50mts from bridge, this time last year there were fish everywhere in around and under the bridge.

Now I don’t want to here the old saying that someone said to me no marine growth no fish, this will apply to bream but what about flathead, jew, jacks and all other fish that only feed on the bait that congregates around the bridge pylons and sit in the eddies, well their not there and it’s the power that is in the pylons that is causing them to disappear, we as fishers are once again being screwed over first by these Political Marine Parks now the bloody RTA when do we say enough is enough.

At any given time day or night you will find fishers on the most bridges in the Northern Rivers area and to take this away from them is a disaster, can you imagine Missingham, Wardell, Broardwater, Woodburn and Coraki all wired for sound, this is mind boggling, can you think fishless bridges, how many of you cut your eye teeth on bridge fishing, how many of you taught your kids to fish on bridge walkways, well that will be a thing of the passed.

Can you imagine if this goes on all over NSW how many small towns do people go to fish and use bridges as bait gathering and to fish gee I know at Evans Head hundreds over the Christmas and any other holiday time the bridge walkway is full and even not in holidays the walkway is one spot that a hell of a lot of locals fish.

Wardell Bridge is next one to be wired from the info I have found out and with all the activity on the bridge now by the RTA I would not be surprised if this is already a done deal only time will tell, even in time if fish get use to swimming under bridges that are wired for sound I can’t see for the life of me that the herrings and all other manner of bait fish will use the bridges and a play ground, and that will mean the end of bridge fishing for all.

Can you imagine what would happen if this technology was used on bridges on the Gold Coast or Brissy area gee it would make bream comps interesting, imagine current being run through pontoons, causeways or any thing that barnacles or other place that marine growth hangs out gee barren grounds, wow that is a sobering thought.

With the Richmond river I was under the impression that we were out to fix the Richmond River up and make it a more fish friendly area (i.e.) fixing cane drains for no more fish kills, knocking down weirs for fish to get through to breed, not putting up invisible walls to stop fish from entering or leaving areas, if this goes ahead and all bridges are wired for sound we have affectively stopped fish in there tracks so no bass or estuary perch who make that breeding journey to salt water and no fish will go any further that Wardell gee I would love to be a pro when that happens, so look out it could be coming to a bridge near you weather you live in NSW or QLD if this works it will be all over the shop a very comforting thought NOT.

I have asked a mate who is well up on info and he rang Fisheries at Cronulla and was told it’s ok they have done studies, bugger, maybe some one out there can find out more info, I have done some digging and there is some info on Lateral Line of fish, but most have seen when divers wear low powered belt in water what it does to sharks it scares the hell out of them so what effect if any does it have on fish below is some studies done on Lateral Line on fish.

Because sound waves are waves of pressure, the lateral line system is also able to detect very low-frequency sounds of 100 Hz or less.

An interesting adaptation of the pressure-sensitive systems is seen in the modified groups of neuromasts called the ampullae’s of Lorenzini, which are found in sharks and certain bony fishes. The ampullae’s of Lorenzini act as electro receptors and are able to detect electrical charges, or fields, in the water. Most animals, including humans, emit a DC field when in seawater. This is presumably caused by electrical potential differences between body fluids and seawater and between different parts of the body. An AC field is also set up by muscular activity (contractions). A wound, even a scratch, can markedly alter these electrical fields. The cat shark, Scyliorhinus, is known to catch prey by using its ampullae’s of Lorenzini to detect the electrical field generated by flatfish (plaice) buried beneath the sand.

In Fish the lateral line is a sense organ used to detect movement and vibration in the surrounding water. Lateral lines are usually visible as faint lines running lengthwise down each side, from the vicinity of the gill covers to the base of the tail. Sometimes parts of the lateral organ are modified into electro receptors, which are organs, used to detect electrical impulses. It is possible that vertabrits such as sharks use the lateral organs to detect magnetic field as well. Most amphibian larvae and some adult amphibians also have a lateral organ

Successful survival in any environment depends upon an organism's ability to acquire information from its environment through its senses. Fish have many of the same senses that we have, they can see, smell, touch, feel, and taste, and they have developed some senses that we don't have, such as electro reception. Fish can sense light, chemicals, vibrations and electricity.

Vibrations: mechanoreception [Hearing and touch]. Have you ever seen a fish's ear? Probably not, but they do have them, located within their bodies as well as a lateral line system that actually lets them feel their surroundings.

Fish do not have external ears, but sound vibrations readily transmit from the water through the fish's body to its internal ears. The ears are divided into two sections, an upper section (pars superior) and a lower section (utriculus) The pars superior is divided into three semicircular canals and give the fish its sense of balance. It is fluid-filled with sensory hairs. The sensory hairs detect the rotational acceleration of the fluid. The canals are arranged so that one gives yaw, another pitch, and the last- roll. The utriculus gives the fish its ability to hear. It has two large otoliths, which vibrate with the sound and stimulate surrounding hair cells.

Fish posses another sense of mechanoreception that is kind of like a cross between hearing and touch. The organ responsible for this is the neuromast, a cluster of hair cells which have their hairs linked in a glob of jelly known as 'cupala'. All fish posses free neuromasts, which come in contact directly with the water. Most fish have a series of neuromasts not in direct contact with the water. These are arranged linearly and form the fish’s lateral lines. A free neuromast gives the fish directional input.

A lateral line receives signals stimulated in a sequence, and gives the fish much more information (feeling the other fish around it for polarized schooling, and short-range prey detection 'the sense of distant touch').

Electricity: electro reception. Sharks and rays posses special organs for detecting electrical potential [voltage]. A set of pits comprises the electro receptive system called the ampullae’s of Lorenzini. These are canals in the skin filled with a gelatin-like material that also contain sensory cells. Movements or disturbances near the shark change the voltage drop along the canals, which allows the shark to sense other organisms nearby. These sensors are so sensitive that if there were not any other distortions a shark could detect the heartbeat of a fish 500 miles away! They can detect muscular contractions of struggling prey and even the earth's magnetic field (which sharks use for navigation).

hahaha got it now......:laugh:

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maxi Newbie

maxi

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Gary Palmerhas been in contact with a bloke by the name of John Diplock who is the Program Manager Rec Fisheries DPI who knows nothing of this he in turn put me on to his boss Bill Talbot who also knows stuff all so let see what happens from here i will be on radio on Sunday with Stinker hopefully with some answers but i'm not holding my breath so look out all this could be comeing to a bridge near you down below is emails that were sent out by John Diplock to Bill Talbot

cheers squidgie

Bill

A fishing writer (Gary Palmer 66860223, 0402415487, email above) contacted me today about the RTA's use of electric currents to clear marine growth off the Missingham Bridge at Ballina. Apparently this work has driven the fish away from the pylons, with obvious adverse effects on the recreational fishing. Gary said that he believed this technique would be extended to other bridges in the state. Are you aware of this, and does this sort of operation need approval from us?

Regards JD

Hi John

I have not heard of the technique being used before and it would require approval. I will get Max Enklaar (our RTA conservation manager) to chase this up for you.

Cheers

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maxi Newbie

maxi

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i for one dont want any barriers put in on any water way, let alone in my own back yard...has the potential \"maybe\" to stop any migrating fish from going upstream past any bridge...

scares me......hope its not true ....we will find out, thats for sure..

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maxi Newbie

maxi

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yeah i dont get it either angus...what i do know about this bridge is that it got savage concrete cancer otherwise known as rust in the steel in the concrete, and they did extensive works on it some time back. Gary is doing all the follow up work, not me. im just letting you all know what hes up to...

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maxi Newbie

maxi

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bit more on this topic

vThis is a email sent to John Diplock via Wollongbar from Max whom i contacted on Friday morning

Max Enklaar/DPI/NSW

17/12/2007 03:11 PM

To Bill Talbot/DPI/NSW@NSW, Greg_COLLINS@rta.nsw.gov.au, Marcus Riches/DPI/NSW@NSW, Patrick Dwyer/DPI/NSW@NSW, John Diplock/DPI/NSW@NSW

cc John_ODONNELL@rta.nsw.gov.au

Subject Re: Fw: RTA and Electric CurrentsLink

Hi John

This started with me looks like its done the full circle. After a phone conversation on 14th Dec 2007 so that he could progress his inquiry I gave Gary Palmer (Squidgy) who broadcasts a fishing radio program up here a contact within the RTA Mr Greg Collins the Environmental Manager in Grafton.

DPI - Fisheries Division (Pat) previously assessed an REF for maintenance of Missingham Bridge for the RTA this work is not to be confused with RTA - Pacific Highway Upgrade (me)

With regard to the process of antifouling the bridge piles and the electrical pulses system referred to as cathodic protection presumably placed on Missingham Bridge by RTA to prevent oysters or other forms of marine growth from forming on the bridge piles and also prevent rust developing in structural steel. I did explain to Palmer that although it was inconvenient for amateur fishermen to lose any productive fishing area like the under bridge environment of Missingham bridge the RTA also needed to protect their assets and prevent premature deterioration of the bridge piles and expensive repairs like the ones just completed.

Question is does the fact that fish are no longer under the bridge happen because: (1) No habitat like kelp, weeds and oysters mean no fish or

(2) Cathodic protection or electric fields are also repelling fish

(3) Does cathodic protection impact on travelling fish making the bridge a barrier to fish passage?

My previous discussions relating to this subject are that the electric pulses used in the cathodic protection are extremely low power. The system is similar to that used to protect aluminium boats which appear not to impact on fish. Perhaps someone within our research division can progress this further if needed.

Regards Max

Max Enklarr

NSW Department of Primary Industries

WAI

1243 Bruxner Highway

WOLLONGBAR NSW 2477

Ph. 02 6626 1325

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chubbstar Newbie

chubbstar

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I used to work a lot of Night shifts on the fuel wharf. Long quite nights when there was nobody about, just me, my rod and the Bream;) . Was hard work night shift Security:P .

Maybe the lack of fish is from the construction of the bridge:huh: Change of habitat etc, how long has the bridge been finished?

Jayson

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Feral Newbie

Feral

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Currently we only use it on two bridges, the newer Hornibrook bridge, and a bridge at Tannum sands near Gladstone. Mainly because both are badly degraded, and were poorly constructed in the first place. The idea is to stop further corrosion of the re-enforcing in the concrete. Many of the pylons on the Hornibrook were also cased in fiberglass.

Normal bridges (where they are built properly) dont need it, the concrete is of high enough strength to be completely water proof.

There are a few papers about on it, I could probably chase them up for anyone interested.

Unfortunately the \"guru\" who did the work is no longer with us, depression got him about a year ago.

I know the bloke who is in charge now, but we have not done any since then, so he is probably not up to speed with it. So cant ask if they have any data on it affecting fish.

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kronky13 Newbie

kronky13

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my family go to ballina evry year for the xmas holidays. i have not got the last couple of years cause i have been working. this year i am not working due to my buggered knee. missingham bridge was alwyas my favourite place to fish there. i will be going down there for a few days. i will certainly be taking the rods. i will attack the bridge first. i will give u guys a in depth report on the area and round the bridge. i leave next thursday

brendan

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