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More right of way rules

AZZA

By AZZA
in Boating

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AZZA Newbie

AZZA

Posted
Posted

There seems to be more and more spearos out on the wider reefs these days. Now I know that you are not to approach within 60 m of a boat displaying a divers flag but what is the rule when these tools drift along and and end up with in that 60m zone do you have to wait for for them to move more than 60m befor You can move. Some times when it is busy at Hutchies you can have three or four boats with dive flags clogging the place up and last week at the Fad there was a spearo sitting right on it so no one could get near it.

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daveylad Newbie

daveylad

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Dom and I were out at the Banks one day and some idiots sped into our drift then whacked up there flag, they could clearly see what we were doing, should have told them we were still berlying but they were clearly wanting that spot and had no intentions of moving, wonder what the rules are in that situation. :angry:

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tomca Newbie

tomca

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I reckon 20lb braid/20lb leader would be enough to get one up. Make the first gaff shot count though.

I have had a couple turn up to a spot I was yakking. The arrogant f-tards hoisted a flag and told me to p-ss off you can't be within xx metres of us. Did themselves no favours. I kept fishing F--- them and their attitude. If only I fished with bait, I could have burleyed up a few sharks or stunk their boat out with some bait jizz thrown over it

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AZZA Newbie

AZZA

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Distance off

When driving a vessel at a speed of 10 knots or more or towing a person you must keep the vessel and the person being towed a minimum distance of:

30 metres from power-driven vessels, any moored vessel, land and structures including jetties, bridges, moorings and navigation markers) or, if that is not possible, a safe distance.

60 metres from persons or non-powered vessels (sailing and passive) that are underway or if that is not possible, a safe distance.

100 metres from a dredge or work barge, if you are travelling faster than 4 knots.

A safe distance from any vessel towing a person.

If you see a snorkeller in the water or their float/flag, remember to remain a safe distance.

If you are travelling at a speed of 10 knots or more, keep a minimum of 60 metres from persons in the water.

When you see a diver’s flag slow down, keep well clear and keep a lookout.

Safe distance

A safe distance between a vessel and a person or thing (including another vessel) is a distance that will ensure that the vessel will not cause danger or injury to the person or damage to the thing, having regard to all relevant safety factors including weather conditions at the time, visibility, speed of

the vessel and obstructions to navigation that are present.

It should be noted that where a skipper is issued a penalty for breaching the distance off requirements referred to above and claims that even though this distance off was breached, the distance off was a ‘safe distance’, the onus is on the skipper to prove this in court

So given these rules would it not be the responsibility of the dive master not to bring his vessel into a position that would place his divers in a position that is not considered a safe distance from my vessel should my vessel be there first. If so someone should let the commercial dive operators know out at Hutchies and curtain

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bootyinblue Newbie

bootyinblue

Posted
Posted

Page 17 I have already posted above and here is page 55

Divers can surface at any time,

sometimes a significant distance

from where they enter the water.

In the interest of diver safety, any

boat is excluded from operating

within 30 metres of a diver in the

water if a Code A flag is displayed

$:J$

diver to operate within the 30 metres. Breach of

this regulation can incur a penalty.

However if you click here


/>http://www.maritime.nsw.gov.au/sbh/safety_on_the_water/safety_on.html

and scroll just over half way down there is Azza's posting. Its for NSW waters, I taught boating in NSW for 5 years down there.

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Seiran Newbie

Seiran

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Pull up your fishing lines, its the law, then start the burley trail........

Splash about a bit with the paddle if your bored.......

I don't think it is 'the law' that you need to pull up your lines if the divers arrive after you've already been there. If you are there first, they cannot tell you to move on.

I was fishing Curtin last Sunday and there was a small dive boat right smack in the middle of about 30-40 fishing boats all fishing. The police even dropped by and did a few safety checks on boats but didn't do a thing to move anyone on. The divers themselves were nice and I pulled up next to their boat (when they were both on board) and asked them how the diving was, to which they politely gave me an answer.

What you shouldn't be doing is motoring around whilst they are down there.

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bootyinblue Newbie

bootyinblue

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yeah but this does not address there responsibility to stay away from you

Would depend on who is anchored and who is moving. If they decide to anchor in your drift line and put out a flag you are still underway and have to stay 30m away.

If you are both drifting then its just a game of chicken as how can either proof they have moved within 30m of the other.

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tikki169 Newbie

tikki169

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Right I spend about 99% of my time on the water fishing with Spearo's so I can see some peoples frustration.

My way of dealing with this (yes it's not technically legal cause I'm ignoring the rules) is to not put a flag up and I just keep the boat close to the guys. If I drift from them or they drift from me it's only when there are no boats around or they head into the shallows where I'm not comfortable having the boat while on my own with waves and swell.

It's my way of being curtious so others an still fish even though the guys are in the water cause legally you don't have to avoid the area where we are.

NOW the other side of that is on Friday I was out at one of the "Fads", we were the only boat out there and had been for about 30 min, then a big cat charter boat comes barelling up, nearly runs me over in the boat and then starts hurling abuse at me and my mate in the water that we're not allowed to spear there (there are no regs prohibiting any spearing in this area), this guy then says if we don't move he's going to run my mate over, now all the timne this is going on I have my camera strapped to my head and I advise him of this and that there is no need to be and ASS as we are on one side of the marker and he's on the other. The isiot still threatens to run my mat eover and to knock me out, so I inform him of the camera and it's beenrunning all the time, about 2 min later they moved on.

There was no need for any of this, we were on the other side of the FAD and there first and just doing long drifts past the marker. They refuse to drift and just back onto the mark and sit in gear.

These guys need to learn that just because they have paying customers it doesn't give them right of the sea weather we are fishing or spearing.

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big al Newbie

big al

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Right I spend about 99% of my time on the water fishing with Spearo's so I can see some peoples frustration.

My way of dealing with this (yes it's not technically legal cause I'm ignoring the rules) is to not put a flag up and I just keep the boat close to the guys. If I drift from them or they drift from me it's only when there are no boats around or they head into the shallows where I'm not comfortable having the boat while on my own with waves and swell.

It's my way of being curtious so others an still fish even though the guys are in the water cause legally you don't have to avoid the area where we are.

NOW the other side of that is on Friday I was out at one of the "Fads", we were the only boat out there and had been for about 30 min, then a big cat charter boat comes barelling up, nearly runs me over in the boat and then starts hurling abuse at me and my mate in the water that we're not allowed to spear there (there are no regs prohibiting any spearing in this area), this guy then says if we don't move he's going to run my mate over, now all the timne this is going on I have my camera strapped to my head and I advise him of this and that there is no need to be and ASS as we are on one side of the marker and he's on the other. The isiot still threatens to run my mat eover and to knock me out, so I inform him of the camera and it's beenrunning all the time, about 2 min later they moved on.

There was no need for any of this, we were on the other side of the FAD and there first and just doing long drifts past the marker. They refuse to drift and just back onto the mark and sit in gear.

These guys need to learn that just because they have paying customers it doesn't give them right of the sea weather we are fishing or spearing.

report them tikki, as this has been constantly happening and fisheries and water police are asking for us to take the name of the dive boats, time, actions eg. if you have been verbally or physically abused and photos if you can

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regulated Newbie

regulated

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I have seen how you operate at the waverider Tikki and I wish more dive boats would do it like you. Very curteous and smart about how you do it, allow everyone to have their turn, do long drifts so the divers are not in the way and protect the divers by being near them.

I wish they had more deep water fads to take the stress off the waverider around that area. If your there by yourself its fine but if another boats rocks up it nearly always goes to poo.

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tikki169 Newbie

tikki169

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I have seen how you operate at the waverider Tikki and I wish more dive boats would do it like you. Very curteous and smart about how you do it, allow everyone to have their turn, do long drifts so the divers are not in the way and protect the divers by being near them.

Thanks mate. I think the resource is there for all of us to use regardless of spearing or fishing. I don't want to get in anyones way because I don't want anyone to get in mine, fair is fair.

The day I saw you out there there was one other boat with us and he was just doing short drifts and driving right up onto the mark and the fish just shut down.

Having longer drifts and a break between each boat allows the fish to settle down rather than be all skittish.

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tikki169 Newbie

tikki169

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http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/15940421/spear-fisher-hit-by-boat-on-nsw-south-coast/

This is the sad result of people not paying attention. APPARENTLY the guy was hit despite having his flag on his float. The boat coming in wasn't paying attention.

Guys can hurl abuse at me when my mates are in th water and I can take it but if this was to happen I shudder to think what would happen next.

The water is dangerous enough (I've already been involved in a boating acident where a woman drowned) and it's nto a fun thing to have to deal with and this is ALWAYS a possability.

Please think or just take a breath and calm down before you decide to have a go at another boat, fisherman, spearo or even on our roads.

In no way am I saying this boatie went out of his way to hit the guy but none the less it's a very sad end to a young life.

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Eug Newbie

Eug

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Don't think some people (divers/spearos/fishos/boaters/etc) are as switched on or as considerate as you Kev. Your spearo/fishing routine seems a good idea and appears to work well.

Some people here scuba through the uni-dive group and I've had plenty of arguments with them about coming in and plonking the dive flag when others are already fishing the wreck/mark. They reckon it ruins their day because then they can't dive and have to go elsewhere since most fishos are already on the mark hours before they show up. I told them to wake up earlier.

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crazywalrus Enthusiast

crazywalrus

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I think most of the issues comes down to poor etiquette. I have as much problem with fishos as I do Spearos but I have found that spearos have been some of the worst on percentage.

Many times I have been on a spot and had a spear boat come up and put up the flag next to us. In some case they have told us to move as we are to close. I have to say this has been met with some stern words telling them to go away and stay away the required distance from us.

Fishing Hutchies and other shallow reefs the first you know they are there are the bubbles coming up around your boat. How is this good etiquette. I would not have any issue with spearos if they did not conduct them selves in this manner in my experience.

I have one question regarding the flags. Is there a standard size and height they need to be. In swell it is hard to even see the flag. Some are so tiny you can not see them at a distance. If I was diving and boats where an issue I would make dam sure I had a flag well up and big enough that people can see it.

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tikki169 Newbie

tikki169

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Don't think some people (divers/spearos/fishos/boaters/etc) are as switched on or as considerate as you Kev. Your spearo/fishing routine seems a good idea and appears to work well.

Cheers Eug. I try my best and I've copped a bit of abuse from guys for NOT putting the flag up but I'd rather share the area and stick close to my guys than exclude everyone else from the area and make things even more unfriendly on the water for no reason.

I'v been at boat rock not even 20moff the rock out the front (only boat there) and had the flag up with my guys between me and the rock and some commercial guys still came trolling through wiht a spread of about 6 lines/lures in the water. No need to stupidity like that! I just made sure I put the boat ahead of the drift of my guys to force them wide next time round

I have one question regarding the flags. Is there a standard size and height they need to be. In swell it is hard to even see the flag. Some are so tiny you can not see them at a distance. If I was diving and boats where an issue I would make dam sure I had a flag well up and big enough that people can see it.

The flag is a standard size, about the size of an A4 sheet. If the flag is on the boat it needs to be visible 360 degrees but no law on exactly how hig above the highest point of the boat (like the white anchor light laws). If the boat has the flag up the spearos don't need to have flags and some guys don't even have floast cause they use a reel gun (no float line required cause the reel holds about 50m of like depending).

If they are in the water and no boat around (shore diving) then there is a smaller flag they have to attach to the float but to be honest it's hardly worth it cause if you can't see the massive orange float, there's not much chance of seeing a stupidly coloured blue/white flag (I've lost sight of them manytimes in choppy water and we're talking less than 50m from the boat).

I think the flag should be a bright reflective colour like a hi vis jacket and you should have to have a flashing/strobe while LED on it that is visible during the day.

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aussie123 Newbie

aussie123

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There is a legal min size that all international nautical code flags need to be but they are measured differently for all vessel types.

I cannot remember what they are now but here in Australia local pollies in the various states have felt the need to re write the international laws so every state now has different flag laws and distance off laws.

Flags are measured on the fly and using the horizontal plane as the flag size.

Yatchs are measured from memory as 1/2 inch on the fly for every foot from the waterline to the very top of the mast so a 30ft height would need a 15 inch flag to be legal.(Horizontally measured)

Dive flags do need to be displayed 1m above any structure on the vessel.

I think divers in the water when displaying a flag,it has about a 30cm min length measured horizontally but I also think their flag is optional when a marked dive vessel is nearby.

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tikki169 Newbie

tikki169

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Yeah we are well within those regs but it's EXTREMELY difficult to actually nail down the laws because it's non specific to Searing and diving.

I rather just keep an eye on things and keep out of the way as best I can of others.

I've been out at Harrold patches off BUndy and we were to only boat as far as the eye could see for most of the day and a big pleasure cruiser nearly ran us over so no matter how big the flag was they didn't see me. I think they were too busy partying with the boat on autopilot

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