queensland Fishing off Moreton 7/6

[dhess]

Not fishing anywhere near as I would like lately I finally had an opportunity to get the boat for the first time for a long time.

Great run across the bay and equally nice outside. Arrived at Shallow Tempest on the crack of dawn and were soon into some fish. First up I dropped a good snapper. :blush:

Soon after this one went into the esky.

Two more smaller snaps went into the esky befor we found these in plague proportions.

They were smacking pillies, plastics, knife jigs. Pretty much anything.

We caught and released about a dozen all in the 60-70cm range. With several double hookups. Great workout even at that size. Got sick of catching AJ's so decided to move deep to try to round out the esky.

Snaps were biting but no size. Heaps of undersize fish and a few legals released in hopes of bigger ones. Shane also got a pearly but only small. Wind vs' current made 90m difficult so decided to head in and have a quick fish around the cape.

Once again plenty of undersize snapper. A grassi was added to the box. We were just about to wind up and head home went Shane hooks up to a little snap. On the way it got monstered. After a great battle on relatively light gear, and this bad boy came up.

A just legal cod.

As often is the case withthese fish they don't want to go back down, so rather than feed him to the sharks we kept him for a feed.

Great day and company. Thanks Daveylad and Shane for coming.

Mod Note

It has come to our attention that the picture of the Estuary cod is possibly a Greasy Rockcod. The point is debatable. The MAX size limit for greasy rock cod is 1 metre. Estuary cod MAX is 1.2 metres.

[Torium50]

Thanks for the great report dhess and congrats on those beautiful catches. Those surely made your day and the trip out there worth the time and effort. I'm sure you lads had a great time out there.

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

[ellicat]

Snaps got a bigger knob than some of the ex-members Did you get a measure on it ?

Lucky the cod was under - some good fillets there .

[Shane69]

Cheers for an awesome trip out Dom and Dave. We always kill it out there when we go together haha.

Im liking fishing around the cape more and more everytrip.

The fishing was so hot in the morning. Such a awesome bite.

The AJ are fun. I cant wait to get onto bigger models. They love little micro jigs. I love those little caprice kid jigs.Perfect for snapper too. I hooked spanish on them too.

That cod made my trip in the end. He went hard. I have more respect for the 4500 saltiga. I reckon its tuffer than 5k stella anywday of the week.

I got some photos too.

I got a sounder shot of the AJ too.

PS Dom i got myself my little wooper stopper toda. Talica 16 single speed with 500m of pe6. I went 16 coz of more line capacity. Its not much bigger and heavier than 12. Will be matching it to a live fibre venom

Bring on the red emperor.

Brian yeah we weighed it, it was 25kg. PB for sure

Shane

[samsteele115]

Nice report Dom and solid feed. Thanks for sharing.

[Dubbzy]

great fish and day out guys!

[dhess]

Snaps got a bigger knob than some of the ex-members Did you get a measure on it ?

Lucky the cod was under - some good fillets there .

4.5" knob, definitely bigger.

You are going to love the Talica Shane. Easily the nicest overhead I have used. Light and very smooth.

It was pretty odd there weren't any bigger AJ's out wider. They are usually there in a bundance. Even weirder was the number of them at Shallow Tempest. First time I have caught one there. Usually its kingies.

[mick2me]

looks like you guys had a great day, I've paid for charters before and weren't put over quality fish like that... so well done. thanks for both reports & photos were great too.

[elops]

That's a big Cod what species is it ?

[tomca]

That's a big Cod what species is it ?

Greasy rockcod by the looks of it.

[dhess]

That's a big Cod what species is it ?

Greasy rockcod by the looks of it.

Really? Pretty sure it was an estuary cod.

[elops]

E.tauvina not E.coioides :ohmy:

[dhess]

E.tauvina not E.coioides :ohmy:

Thats embarassing. Feel pretty bad. Would really appreciate any tips on distinguishing between the two in the future. Not sure if I have never previously encountered one or have always misidentified.

[Shane69]

E.tauvina not E.coioides :ohmy:

Thats embarassing. Feel pretty bad. Would really appreciate any tips on distinguishing between the two in the future. Not sure if I have never previously encountered one or have always misidentified.

I thought they were 120cm too.

I havnt got 1 that big before either. Rest of em 10-15kg mark.

Oh well man we didnt know. No need to feel bad.

There was no way he was going to go back down anyway. He was cactus when he came up.

Shane

[elops]

That's a good attitude did not know so its ok, hope that works for you.

They go down with help no problem, maybe invest in a release bomb good thing to have when fishing deep.

[JarrydA]

maybe invest in a release bomb good thing to have when fishing deep.

Hey elops, what is this? Never heard of it.

[dassa]

Hey Jarryd it's a large lead weight that is put through the fishes mouth and helps with releasing big fish back after they come out of deep water.

[linc87]

Nice purchase Shane,

I have the single speed 12 matched to a venoms s absolutely love it!

[shano799]

Nice report. Well we went out Fri night on a mates new boat and fished inside before venturing outside first light and can tell you no fish anywhere even close to what you caught.

I would love a session like that

[bogan]

E.tauvina not E.coioides :ohmy:

Thats embarassing. Feel pretty bad. Would really appreciate any tips on distinguishing between the two in the future. Not sure if I have never previously encountered one or have always misidentified.

I thought they were 120cm too.

I havnt got 1 that big before either. Rest of em 10-15kg mark.

Oh well man we didnt know. No need to feel bad.

There was no way he was going to go back down anyway. He was cactus when he came up.

Shane

Hi, can someone further explain for me please.

I went here: http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/documents/Fisheries_RecreationalFishing/Rec-fishing-tidal-waters-A4.pdf

And it says greasy rockcod 38min100max, okay so mistake was made. But where does it say estuary cod would be 120cm? Just for my own knowledge so I understand.

[bogan]

E.tauvina not E.coioides :ohmy:

Thats embarassing. Feel pretty bad. Would really appreciate any tips on distinguishing between the two in the future. Not sure if I have never previously encountered one or have always misidentified.

I thought they were 120cm too.

I havnt got 1 that big before either. Rest of em 10-15kg mark.

Oh well man we didnt know. No need to feel bad.

There was no way he was going to go back down anyway. He was cactus when he came up.

Shane

Hi, can someone further explain for me please.

I went here: http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/documents/Fisheries_RecreationalFishing/Rec-fishing-tidal-waters-A4.pdf

And it says greasy rockcod 38min100max, okay so mistake was made. But where does it say estuary cod would be 120cm? Just for my own knowledge so I understand.

Oops, nvm, just scrolled down on the above document it has a separate section for "other code & grouper" and says Blackspot/Goldspot estuary cod are 120max.

[max pwr]

Awesome report...... I get really pumped to see reports where guys are pulling epic fish so close to brisbane! Not to mention putting on a good feed afterwards!!

[tomartomau]

I have printed the DPI fish species list/sizes and no catch and laminated then on an A3 sheet but they do not come with pictures. A good idea for clarification would be to provide some sort of phone app that shows pictures and all the relevant data.

[ellicat]

This thread has caused some concern for some members due to the misidentification of the greasy rock cod. I refer those members to the following thread where our choice of actions in such circumstances were assisted by the community.

/>http://www.australianfishing.com.au/forum/general-chat/382846-afo-reports-with-illegal-activity-poll?limitstart=0&start=40

End of story.

[elops]

Here are some links with pictures.
/>http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/28_630.htm species identification
/>http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/28_14640.htm inshore species Blackspot and Goldspot Estuary Cod here
/>http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/28_8796.htm Reef Fish web guide, all other Cod and Grouper here

Pretty good guide with pics and ID Keys

[GregL]

Firstly well done guys some real nice fish there.

The issue of what species of cod Shane caught should not have turned into a personal attack and it's a shame the fishing community needs to do this considering we are all share and enjoy the passion of fishing.

When it comes to Cod there's well over 30 different species so identifying some can be very tricky especially for those who haven't had the opportunity to catch these different species.

Miss identification of Cod often happens for many reasons as listed below:

-Several species of juvenile cod can change in appearance when they become mature adult fish so this causes confusion particularly when people compare cod to the fisheries website which has some of the poorest images of fish that I have seen.

-Cod often change colour depending on the size, habitat, distress and death.

-Many images found on the internet have been incorrectly I.D so when you search a species this can often result in chain reaction of false I.D's as these images all show up in search functions as the species you are searching for.

To make things worse fisheries also have a hard time telling the difference between many species of cod and this is when museum scientist's get involved to correctly I.D fish species. I have been down this path only recently with a cod, as lots of people were calling it one thing while I was confident it was something else. To prove a point the picture was passed on to several fisheries offices and there was conflicting I.D's from these guys as well so it was passed on to a scientist who confirmed what I thought it was. My point here is that mistakes can be easily made even from people who specialise in this field of work. I believe the species of cod which look very similar should have the same min and max lengths to save everyone the pain and the risk being fined for innocent mistakes.

In the case of Shane's Cod I don't believe anyone has done anything wrong and I would like to know how people have come up with conclusions that it's a greasy Cod? The pics shown don't suggest to me that anyone could confidently identify 100% that its a greasy. Greasy Cod are a species of Cod that don't grow overly big hence why they have a 1mtr max length. Even in the larger greasy's they tend to have larger and fewer spots to a gold spot estuary cod all of which Shane's does not show.

I have shown a pic of this cod to friend who is well respected in fish identification (can't name government persons on forums/social media) and he also believes this is a gold spot estuary cod not a greasy.

I'm sure there are many different opinions out there as we have already seen but in this instance I don't believe people should flame others for catching a species of cod that professionals also have a hard time telling the difference between. This appears to be Shane's first big Cod which he sounds very proud of and should be congratulated on. Well done on a great Gold Spot Estuary Cod Shane.

Regards

Greg Lamprecht

Wicked Fishing

[dhess]

Thanks Greg for bringing some objectivity back to this discussion.

After the ID of the fish came into dispute I did some further research and reading and everything I could find is pointing to the fish being a gold spot estuary cod.

e.g.

In the words of Elops, posted on another forum:

"Hard to tell the difference.

Goldspotted Cod E. coioides have less spots and white belly.

Greasy Cod E. tauvina have more spots all over entire body.

Supposed ID key for E. tauvina is black blocth at base of last 4 dorsal spines but this is not easy to determine."

Shane's cod has spot free white belly and most of the pics of E.coioides on google images seem to not have spots extending onto the fin margins whereas E.tauvina seem to have spots covering the entire surface of the fins.

From another resource:

Epinephelus tauvina (Greasy), has hexagonal spots on the soft dorsal, anal and caudal fins. There are distinct white lines that delineate these spots. Body spots are dark in the centre, becoming lighter around the edges. Younger fish will have a black spot below the last four dorsal spines.

Epinephelus coioides (Estuary), has orange spots on the body, and often lacks spots on the caudal fin. If spots are present on the soft dorsal, anal and caudal, they will not be hexagonal.

After the thread degenerated a couple of days ago I had a look at the fish frame and although difficult to see beacuse the colours had faded, the spots on the fins were sure as hell not hexagonal in any shape or form.

If I my initial ID of calling the fish a gold spot estuary cod was wrong. I would sincerely like to be educated so I don't make the mistake again. No one is willing to help. I have PM'd Elops asking for assistance but no response. The links to dpi posted do nothing to narrow it down.

I am willing to wear a fine if I was wrong. Hell I'll even make a donation. I'll even dig up the decomposing corpse from my garden and take it to fisheries in person. Until someone can conclusively prove this is a greasy cod I suggest people lay off Shane because it was my call not his.

[rathabfishin2]

Interesting thread. Firstly looks like a great day on the water. To throw in my two cents, and this is in no way a personal attck on a fellow memebr! There have been several times when I have been unsure about identification or size limit due to no listing on the chart I have in the boat, and no phone reception to check it on the net. If I am ever unsure I just release the fish as it is not worth the risk of me losing what meagre pposessions I own and/or incurring a large fine.

In saying that. Great effort to land that fish Shane. Looks like you guys have the offshore stuff downpat!

Cheers for posting,

Andrew

[elops]

Still lean towards E. tauvina

Main reason being in E. coioides the third or central bar of the five sub vertical bars which are always present is always at D6-9.

In very large E.tauvina the five sub vertical bars are not as obvious or not present but the centre bar is always at D7-11 this is the "spot" referred to for ID in juvies.

[regulated]

Looks like an awesome day out boys. I would love to get out over the cape again to catch some stonkers like you have. If only I had a dry boat

[Angus]

Good session guys.

I think (after the initial removal of a couple of heated comments) that this thread has panned out to be the educational one desired. For the life of me I still would not make a call on that fish. It just shows how tricky these things are sometimes even for people willing to do the research.

I think this is why mods and admin (me especially) get so annoyed when stuff just goes hay wire when people go off from word go... It negates any chance for a debatable thread to be debated informatively with an interesting result. People who get there back up also sometimes need to see these things play out as some people take a very "everyone's against me" stance, where time actually shows there is at the very least equal support both ways.

Regarding AFO's stance on promoting illegal captures etc whether or not this fish is a Greasy Cod I do not see leaving this thread as promoting an illegal capture but rather being a highly informative source for other anglers who may find themselves in the same position. In saying that I still would not be confident calling this fish either way but I guess that is a decision anglers will need to make themselves on the water at least knowing there is another option. It is easy to make the "when in doubt" call, but to be honest my brain would not have been in doubt with that fish, it would have been convinced it was an estuary cod. Now anything I catch will bare more scrutiny (although woe the day I catch some over 1m and have to think about it hahaha).

Angus

[daveylad]

Its sometimes worth giving someone the benefit of the doubt before striking and assuming they are doing something to be smart, thanks Angus

[elops]

I sent the pictures to a number of ichthyologists here and overseas for their opinion on what species it is. Have received four replies thus far, quoted are the relevant parts of those replies.

"The cod is definitely a Goldspotted Rockcod Epinephelus coioides"

"Most likely Epinephelus coioides"

"may be E. malabaricus"

"E. coioides or E. tauvina, do you have a better picture"

With a definitely from the ichthyologist to whom this would normally be referred and a most likely from the most experienced and respected person internationally it is E. coioides

[motu]

just a quick question on this cod what did it taste like it looked edible ?

[dhess]

I sent the pictures to a number of ichthyologists here and overseas for their opinion on what species it is. Have received four replies thus far, quoted are the relevant parts of those replies.

"The cod is definitely a Goldspotted Rockcod Epinephelus coioides"

"Most likely Epinephelus coioides"

"may be E. malabaricus"

"E. coioides or E. tauvina, do you have a better picture"

With a definitely from the ichthyologist to whom this would normally be referred and a most likely from the most experienced and respected person internationally it is E. coioides

Nice work. I really appreciate the effort you went to to clarify the ID.

The "maybe malabaricus" one is very interesting. I wonder what pointed them in that direction.

Motu,

Like all cod that I have tried it was very tasty despite its large size.

I try to release larger cod that are caught on my boat. If they are too buggered to go down there is no shame in taking one for a feed. I prefer to feast on them than leaving it up to the sharks.

I am considering acquiring a release weight but have read a study that question wether or not they increase the survival rate of fish.

[daveylad]

I tried to tell people what the taste was like but my post was deleted :blush:

[neal82]

On page 2 Bogan, straight underneath Cobia and right above Crab.

I'd also like help distinguishing the 2 species as well, not that i've ever come close to getting either of them at close to max size yet... actually, i've not even come close to getting one close to minimum size either! haha

[Eug]

I tried to tell people what the taste was like but my post was deleted :blush:

Davey, I caught a glimpse of that thread and along with some other threads/comments I think it kind of read like a bit of an F U to some members. Not taking a stab at you, we say things and everyone has a different perspective on it. It was for that reason of not provoking things any further that I didn't comment.

Anyway all that aside, can I just say that I like the way the direction the thread is heading. It is reminiscent of the old BFO where everyone collectively works towards a solution rather than arcing up pointing fingers (i.e. photographing fish, etc.). I think the question of species ID came up appropriately and a slightly defensive response was given which doesn't help the situation (I guess it goes both ways).

Regardless it was an epic fish and I think people know Dom well enough to know that there wasn't anything untoward in keeping it. I hope we can carry this mentality through from here on.

Cheers and beers

Eug

[daveylad]

I tried to tell people what the taste was like but my post was deleted :blush:

Davey, I caught a glimpse of that thread and along with some other threads/comments I think it kind of read like a bit of an F U to some members. Not taking a stab at you, we say things and everyone has a different perspective on it. It was for that reason of not provoking things any further that I didn't comment.

Anyway all that aside, can I just say that I like the way the direction the thread is heading. It is reminiscent of the old BFO where everyone collectively works towards a solution rather than arcing up pointing fingers (i.e. photographing fish, etc.). I think the question of species ID came up appropriately and a slightly defensive response was given which doesn't help the situation (I guess it goes both ways).

Regardless it was an epic fish and I think people know Dom well enough to know that there wasn't anything untoward in keeping it. I hope we can carry this mentality through from here on.

Cheers and beers

Eug

Eug when I put that up I didn't have a clue why doms had been locked other than some didn't like the catch, some of the comments had already been removed by the time I wrote mine and I had not seen them. The reason I was given for its removal was the pictures that I posted were to big and that I knew they were, which was incorrect as I had downsized them before posting but they were from my telephone and I wasn't used to using that. I was also warned not to re submit it as it was, If you did read it Eug and can remember what I said was basically it tasted great and mentioned Shanes face (smile)I did not have a go at anybody in the comment only mentioned It tasted great and put it into my own post, if you can recall anything different let me know and if right I'm happy to put my hand up, but I think it was a knee jerk reaction first to lock Doms thread, the unlocking shows that and people have asked in it, "How did it taste"

it wasn't intended as a FU I wanted to post the pictures to Shane as they were different to the ones he posted. I also agree to the post being unlocked and the old way of collectively reaching a solution.

[Angus]

I sent the pictures to a number of ichthyologists here and overseas for their opinion on what species it is. Have received four replies thus far, quoted are the relevant parts of those replies.

"The cod is definitely a Goldspotted Rockcod Epinephelus coioides"

"Most likely Epinephelus coioides"

"may be E. malabaricus"

"E. coioides or E. tauvina, do you have a better picture"

With a definitely from the ichthyologist to whom this would normally be referred and a most likely from the most experienced and respected person internationally it is E. coioides

Thank you elops.

My understanding now is that this fish then is in fact under 120cm and thus legal?

Thanks for not "digging in" so to speak and going to further lengths of study which in the end proved your initial ID wrong. This is a truly scientific approach

Once again, a further example of why these things should not be jumped on immediately by nay sayers and left for logic and objectivity to analyze.

Angus