Catch and release bass during closed season????

[rayke1938]

This subject was recently raised on another forum with the statement it was ok.

I had previously sought a ruling from Deedi on this subject on 2009 and they stated it was not allowed.

As a result of this thread on the other forum I once again referred the matter to Deedi .

I have just been speaking to Tony Ham re this subject after emailing Deedi re this issue. He has also sent me a reply in writing that is is nor legal to target bass during closed even if it is only for catch and release purposes.He has given me permission to publish this email.

Here is his response.

Cheers

Ray

From:

"Ham, Tony"

Add sender to Contacts

To:

rayke1938@yahoo.com.au

Ray,

I am replying to your enquiry regarding fishing for bass during the closed season.

The original definition that was sent from Anita Ramage is still correct regarding take and I have pasted it here…

This is the definition of “take†as stated in the Fisheries Act 1994

take fisheries resources includes—

(a) catch, gather, kill or obtain from water or land; and

( attempt to catch, gather, kill or obtain from water or land; and

© land (from a boat or in another way), bring ashore or tranship.

You will notice that attempting to catch fish is included in the definition of take and therefore my understanding is that if someone is attempting to take a species of fish during a closed season they would be in breech of the regulation.

There is no restriction on fishing for other species during any closed season, however incidental catches of bass (in this instance) must be immediately returned to the water, unharmed.

The closed season for bass does not apply in certain impoundments and bass from these waters may be taken and retained as per usual.

I hope this is of some assistance and should you have any further questions please don't hesitate to contact me.

Regards,

Tony Ham

Manager Recreational Fisheries, SIPS and Fishcare

Industry Development

Fisheries Queensland

a service of the Department of Employment, Economic Development and Innovation

Telephone: 07 3405 6805 Fax: 07 3224 2805

Mobile 0467785787

Email: Tony.Ham@deedi.qld.gov.au

[aussie123]

That has always been the law regarding the targeting of species during closed seasons.

Another confusing law for many people is targeting a species once they have reached their bag/possession limit.

Take Bass as an example which carries a possession limit of 2 fish per person.

Once you have 2 Bass in your possession by law you must stop targeting them and even catch and release is deemed as illegal.

To keep fishing you should only have 1 fish in possession and release all other fish until you decide to keep your last fish to complete your possession limit.

I have always been a bit surprised that nothing has ever been said about the fishing comps you see on telly where anglers have their bag/possession limit in their live wells and continue to fish for upgrades.

In reality that is against the law.

[Dinodadog]

So once again they are saying you are abel to fish and if you catch a bass you must return it to the water immediately, and you are definately not allowed to take. Thats very simple to understand. Just make sure you dont take bass lures when you are bream fishing. Also dont target bream where there isnt any.

[ellicat]

Pretty hard to enforce if there are any yellowbelly, silver perch, tandanus, cod, tilapia, etc possibly present. You'd have to be essentially peppering the same snag with bass after bass to be done I'd imagine.

Interesting view with the comps. Perhaps they have a permit for the comp that negates the rule.

I trust you stopped the argument with the facts on the other forum, Ray

[rayke1938]

I have always been a bit surprised that nothing has ever been said about the fishing comps you see on telly where anglers have their bag/possession limit in their live wells and continue to fish for upgrades.

In reality that is against the law.

And strangely the organizers do not respond when you question them .

I wonder why?

Cheers

Ray

[dansike]

I trust you stopped the argument with the facts on the other forum, Ray

you would think so by now with all the info Ray has posted about it, but I bet this topic comes up again before Sept 1 as the bass fisho's get impatient.

[Ash]

Just been to DPI site and it states:

"A closed season applies to Australian bass throughout Queensland from 1 June to 31 August except in and from waterways upstream of"

Does that mean I can fish the Stanly River as it feeds into Sommerset? Is that "upsteream"?

[aussie123]

Yes that does mean you can fish for Bass within and upstream of the lake.

Bass need to run to the brackish/salt water to spawn so hence the closed season to allow them to breed.

Generally they are wild populations of fish as well but within the lakes and upstream of the lakes the fish are generally stocked fish and cannot breed without access to the salt water.

[Gad]

I trust you stopped the argument with the facts on the other forum, Ray

you would think so by now with all the info Ray has posted about it, but I bet this topic comes up again before Sept 1 as the bass fisho's get impatient.

Not a case of a bass fisho being impatient, the bass fisho who plays by the rules laments the fact that bass closure season goes so slow.

You will never stop this subject coming up year after year on any/every fishing site.

It`s a mental defect that some have, it`s called “ I knowus but I willus interpretitis†syndrome

You get a few each year that argues (their self knowing misinterpretation), to justify their own out of season targeting of the breeding bass.

The only ones they fool are themselves, if/when they get caught, fisheries will fine them no matter how “play with words clever†they think they are.

Personally I think these types are lower than the undersized fish, fishcake makers.

They know the interpretation of the rule… If they were not aware, of the correct interpretation, of the rule they would be onto the relevant authority so as to verify their interpretation so that they could plaster it on every fishing site to show the 999 out of 1000 people (who disagree with them)that they are WRONG

[Dinodadog]

As you all know I bass fish quite a lot, but I rarely ever take any home, however if I decide to take 2 could someone show me where it says I cant target bass or keep fishing anymore as its not in the rec fishing rules and reg book which we are supposed to follow. I am talking impoundment fishing.

[freedomhawk12]

As you all know I bass fish quite a lot, but I rarely ever take any home, however if I decide to take 2 could someone show me where it says I cant target bass or keep fishing anymore as its not in the rec fishing rules and reg book which we are supposed to follow. I am talking impoundment fishing.

im with you there dino ? i would like to see that in the rec rules ?

can anyone tell me how the bass tournements work? are they only allowed 2 fish per session ?

dino with what pictures i see you pull out of the npd if your ever after and second to fill a spot on your boat please yell out haha! lived on the murray river for 18 years and only ever caught 1 yellowbelly and you did 16 in one session.... im in envy haha

[wallyfly]

Obtain a copy of Recreational fishing rules and regulations for Queensland, A brief guide, and read the details cos the answers are there. Handy hints on pages 5, 7, 11, 13 ,etc are good advice. Tight lines :cheer: Ian M

[aussie123]

As you all know I bass fish quite a lot, but I rarely ever take any home, however if I decide to take 2 could someone show me where it says I cant target bass or keep fishing anymore as its not in the rec fishing rules and reg book which we are supposed to follow. I am talking impoundment fishing.

It all comes down to an interpretation of the law.

A bag/possession limit is called a Quota under the fisheries legislation and as mentioned Bass have a limit(Quota) of 2 fish in possession.

Once you have reached your Quota for that species of fish it is illegal to TAKE any more fish until the restrictions of that species/quota have been met.

The meaning of TAKE under fisheries legislation includes - attempt to catch, gather, kill or obtain from water or land.

Now it is not illegal to accidentally catch and remove a fish from the water by means of landing net or gaff for the purpose of returning the fish safely to the water but it is illegal to take(attempt to catch) a fish deliberately but as I mentioned before its an interpretation of the law and down to the discretion of the inspector at the time.

You have your 2 bass and now your chasing yellas.

[rayke1938]

Just thought I would copy part of a post made on another forum.

The post is an opinion made by Tony Ham the manager of recreational fisheries Deedi Qld so carries some weight

Take and attempt to take are one and the same in term of thw law......the intent is the issue..and of course intent is the issue to be proven....for most enforcement officers, if they found you with a bass in a bucket..then you are probably about to experience some difficulty I would suggest...On the other hand if you are casting a lure and a bass is landed as an incidental catch, you have an obligation to immediately release the fish...and I would suggest that you would not have any problems as a result.

In terms of attempt to take, given that the legislations intent is to protect spawning fish, I would suggest that if you were to hook two bass in a row in the same spot, then you have an obligation to either stop fishing, or move to somewhere else to avoid catching bass. or at least take some action to avoid catching them at least in that spot....The law generally applies as though a reasonable person with no knowledge was looking at the situation...I am of course acutely aware that not every fisher adheres to this type of moral code....that said..I would argue that if I observed someone in a river, continually catching bass and continuing with no change in their behaviour, I could possibly mount a case for targeting bass (or attempting to take)...I say possibly!! ..it all boils down to what convinces a magistrate

The real question is ... How serious are you about complying with the law....it becomes an ethical question for rec fishers to address...and fishing ethics are the things that we do when we are unobserved by others!!

I really like the bit about ethics in the last paragraph.

Cheers

Ray

[aussie123]

Thats a good description there Ray

The law categorically states Unintentional Take of fish or plants within the Fisheries Act so if you knowingly stay there catching that regulated species you are breaking the law even if you are catch and releasing those fish.

If you continue to do the same thing and continue catching bass you are not deemed under law to be Unintentionally catching the Bass.

An unintentional capture is deemed exempt from prosecution if the inspector makes that judgement at the time or if he wants to be narky he can haul your ass off to court for exceeding your Quota of fish.

[ryanyoung]

Yep, even in my short time fishing, this has come up like clockwork this time each year lol. Sweetwater enthusiasts should take the opportunity to try something different and get into the salt ha ha ha!!!

[snick]

The only thing about this that i find hard to understand is that so many people find this hard to understand!

It's a closed saeson, you are not allowed to target bass in the vast majority of rivers. Yes you canfish the dams if you have the required, valid permit.If not, stop bass fishing untill the end of the closed season.

For me it's like giving up oxygen, if I can do it ANYBODY can, and BLOODY WELL SHOULD!

[Dinodadog]

Where the confusion lies is when you ring the DPI to check rules you get a different answer each time you get a different person. Rules need to be a little clearer so there is no loop holes. I rang the other day and explained that this time of year I usualy target bream, but I have a problem since all the fish escaped from the dams the rivers are full of bass, does that mean I cant fish there. They said by all means fish where you normaly fish and if you catch a bass return it to the water asap,that means no happy snaps or measuring.

[Little Grey Men]

Where the confusion lies is when you ring the DPI to check rules you get a different answer each time you get a different person. Rules need to be a little clearer so there is no loop holes. I rang the other day and explained that this time of year I usualy target bream, but I have a problem since all the fish escaped from the dams the rivers are full of bass, does that mean I cant fish there. They said by all means fish where you normaly fish and if you catch a bass return it to the water asap,that means no happy snaps or measuring.

Too bad if you hooked a unicorn mate. Ha ha, I'd still believe you though

[rayke1938]

In light of some misinformation given out on another fishing forum I rewrote to Deedi and recieved the following.

To:

rayke1938@yahoo.com.au

Ray,

I am replying to your enquiry regarding fishing for bass during the closed season.

The original definition that was sent from Anita Ramage is still correct regarding take and I have pasted it here…

This is the definition of “take†as stated in the Fisheries Act 1994

take fisheries resources includes—

(a) catch, gather, kill or obtain from water or land; and

( attempt to catch, gather, kill or obtain from water or land; and

© land (from a boat or in another way), bring ashore or tranship.

You will notice that attempting to catch fish is included in the definition of take and therefore my understanding is that if someone is attempting to take a species of fish during a closed season they would be in breech of the regulation.

There is no restriction on fishing for other species during any closed season, however incidental catches of bass (in this instance) must be immediately returned to the water, unharmed.

The closed season for bass does not apply in certain impoundments and bass from these waters may be taken and retained as per usual.

I hope this is of some assistance and should you have any further questions please don't hesitate to contact me.

Regards,

Tony Ham

Manager Recreational Fisheries, SIPS and Fishcare

Industry Development

Fisheries Queensland

a service of the Department of Employment, Economic Development and Innovation

Telephone: 07 3405 6805 Fax: 07 3224 2805

Mobile 0467785787

Email: Tony.Ham@deedi.qld.gov.au

Tony then made the following statement after some questions by amateur lawyers withing to twist to suit themselves.

Norm...first let me say that the opinions in this reply are purely my own...and based on my time in enforcement and education activities... 8)

Take and attempt to take are one and the same in term of thw law......the intent is the issue..and of course intent is the issue to be proven....for most enforcement officers, if they found you with a bass in a bucket..then you are probably about to experience some difficulty I would suggest...On the other hand if you are casting a lure and a bass is landed as an incidental catch, you have an obligation to immediately release the fish...and I would suggest that you would not have any problems as a result.

In terms of attempt to take, given that the legislations intent is to protect spawning fish, I would suggest that if you were to hook two bass in a row in the same spot, then you have an obligation to either stop fishing, or move to somewhere else to avoid catching bass. or at least take some action to avoid catching them at least in that spot....The law generally applies as though a reasonable person with no knowledge was looking at the situation...I am of course acutely aware that not every fisher adheres to this type of moral code....that said..I would argue that if I observed someone in a river, continually catching bass and continuing with no change in their behaviour, I could possibly mount a case for targeting bass (or attempting to take)...I say possibly!! ..it all boils down to what convinces a magistrate C:-)

The real question is ... How serious are you about complying with the law....it becomes an ethical question for rec fishers to address...and fishing ethics are the things that we do when we are unobserved by others!!

As Tony Ham said it really boils down to your own ethics and it is obvious to me that some npeople in high places non the other site have none.

Cheers

Ray

[fenelious]

The bag limit question has got me a bit disagreeable - I think it's a bit silly that if I want to fish for Bass for a certain length of time and not go home early, I can only keep one bass and hope that I catch my second one JUST before I want to go home! I mean, when are you really ever going to catch your second fish right at the time you want to go home?!

You're allowed to catch and release an infinite number of bass if you don't keep any, or only 1, (of course in season or the proper impoundments) so why can't you keep 2 then go on catching and releasing as many as you like, what's the difference? The intention of this law I would think is to prevent people removing too many fish, it's not to allow fish to spawn or to prevent stress on them, as is the case for the closed season law. So if I'm not removing them what's the proplem? I think the law should simply be that you can't remove permanently from the water more than 2... but hey that's just me.

Anyway, I guess I'll just have to be content with only ever keeping one Bass if I want to fish until a certain time. Which is ok, that's all I usually ever want anyway, it's just the principle.

-Steve.

P.S. I agree with Dino and Ryan - closed season is a great opportunity to hone your impoundment fishing skills or try the salt - I got my first ever 'lure caught' Bream the other day, and got 7 Pike(?) in 7 casts in a row (on a Bream type lure) up at Tin Can Bay :-) Still prefer the fresh though! :-)