Getting the Most out of lure action

[Juddy64]

AFO guys and girls,

Recently i have found myself scouring the posts and the website for info on how to best use lures, what action to use and the best retrieve for results. I am interested in using hard bodies and soft plastics, the only experience i have is from what ive learnt from here already, just wondering if there is anything else out there to know.

So i guess at the end of it, just wanted to know what sort of retrieval is used for bream/whiting, flathead and for the rivers cod and etc and where lures are most effective. Also if there are any lures you could recommend would be great.

I guess what im asking is imagine your teaching someone for the first time they are lusing a lure and what advice you would give them to make things easier and to keep them keen, as i said i am keen as mustard to learn, i just dont want to get frustrated and give up, thanks Juddy

[Angus]

Hey Juddy, ill try and answer your question as you have requested. Ill do this from both a technique and gear point of view.

By this i mean i would not reccomend running out and buying $25 lures right away. There are some cheaper options i started on that provided great results.

If you want some river cod id get either a Halco Scorpion or a Halco Laser Pro. These are called bibbed lures by the way due to the plastic bib at the head end of the lure. The bib helps the lure swim in the appropriate manner. These are great hardbodies for their price. Try around Camerons rocks area. Just cast about 2 meters out parralell to the bank. I would just use a steady retrieve, not to fast not to slow. Doing this you will also stand a good chance at picking up a Flatty or a Bream.

One the ways to help bibbed lures move better in the water is to tie a loop knot. Sometimes tying the line right onto the split ring causes the lures to falter in the water.

Check out this link below to read a little more about these two lures.

/>http://www.australianfishing.com.au/fish-information/hints-and-tips/halco-lures-the-humble-striker.html

I prefer Hard Bodies these days but if your keen to try plastics i dont think you can beat Berkley 3'' Powerbaits. Simpilist retrieve ever. Cast out, wait till it hits the bottom. Once it hits, give it two strong twitches and retrieve the slack. Continue until its all the way in. Fishing the bottom this way is great for flathead. If you use a similar methong but dont allow it to get to the bottom, your in with a chance at a Bream, Trev and so on. For Bream especially try casting towards structure such as pilons.

This is pretty basic stuff but these are pretty much the first things i took on when i started with lures.

One last thing with lures. I would recoment using braid if you dont already. It really does effect the hook up rate. Also use the lightest leader you think you can get away with for the target species.

Anyway mate hope to see some pictures of some lure caught fish soon

Angus

[Juddy64]

Angus,

Thanks heaps mate, i just bought a couple of mal florence lures, one of my mates has a halco laser pro in firetiger and i read a couple of good things about the mal flornences so i got them. So all in all do you think you get more action with the hard bodies or soft plastics? i presume it all depends on what your after but mainly itll be bream flathead or whiting.

Ill definately try the braid, but asking one of my mates he said its sometimes gets quite dry on the reel?

Well mate hopefully ill be off to the bridges near hope island this weekend for a bit of learning, hopefully ill have a photo for you, but not sure how i'll go :whistle:

Thanks again, hopefully one of these days happens soon and i can get some tips in person.

[Tim a]

Angus is on the money for a learner but I rekon you need to know what your using to understand how to use it.

Size jig head.

The jighead is the hook used when using soft plastics. They are a hook with a weight attached to them so you don't have to attach another sinker(all tho some people do when fishing very deep water). There are two main types of jighead. Frontweight and hidden weight. I wouldn't bother with hidden weights when you are learning. Front weights have a weight at the front of shank of the hook. The weight can be in several different shapes or sizes. The three shapes I can think of are ball, bullet and darter. Ball and bullet shaped sinkers make the soft plastic go which ever way you jig it(e.g up down sideways). Darter jigheads make the lure dart in different directions.

The size of jighead you use should depend on a few things, target species, water depth, structure and the soft plastic you are using. If you were fishing for Flathead you would realise that Flathead live on the bottom and weight for their prey to swim past them, they pick up the vibrations of the prey comes near them and then when the prey is in range they pounce engulfing most of the prey. This means that you would use a jighead heavy enough for the lure to get to the bottom fairly quickly. For Flathead I would start with a lure around 1/8th ounce anywhere up the 3/4 ounce. I personally havn't used jigheads that heavy but they have been used. When fishing for flathead I usually don't fish very deep water so the heaviest I use is 1/4th ounce. You also need a hook big enough for the softplastic you are using. You can choose between the types of jig but my favourite is the tt bullet head weight in 1/4th ounce size.

I'll finish later... the bell just rang.

[Brian D]

What a great question - Good one Juddy.

My advice is, learn to read the conditions - which I don't do enough. I tend to go with a preconceived plan of attack rather then going with the flow. Lean to know where the fish should be and put the lure as close to their nose as possible, during feeding time.

Timing, tide, technique and season are the keys – the lure will take care of itself if you use it as it is designed.

Timing – Late afternoon until mid morning are best.

Tide – I find the top half best with the outgoing early morning my favourite

Technique – depends on the lure and target but generally slow retrieve will allow the lure to do its stuff. Exception being Slugs, metals and other spinning baits that are retrieved as fast a you can wind. There are many types of lures but to name a few of the main ones I use and carry: sinking, suspending, deep or shallow divers, plastics, surface poppers and spinners, There is way more info but where to stop?

As for now, the bream are starting to school up so if I was you I would grab a packet of Berkley Gulps pumpkinseeds with jig heads to suit, a small popper and a small deep diver blue/green and start from there.

Gotta stop somwhere - good question!

[Juddy64]

Guys,

Once again thanks for the info, will be invaluable im sure. Juddy

[almO]

Does anyone use sinkers when using hardbody lures?

I find its hard to get very much distance casting otherwise?

I was watching some dude trout fishing on tv with hardbody lures and he had a couple of small sinkers probably around 60cm from his lure.

Any thoughts?

Cheers.

[Dazzamcgee]

Mate if its action you want out of hardbody lures try up sizing the front treble so the lure dives faster and down size the rear treble to give the lure more wobble/swimming action.

AlmO mate if you need to use sinkers on ya hardbody lures to get them down deeper you are using the wrong lure for the water depth...Try getting lures to suit the depth your fishing....Also if your having troubles getting the distance you want out of you cast theres a few things to remember:The rod your use is for the weight you intend on casting,Braided line is a must!! and a full spool of braid filled right to the rim...Sometimes depending on what type of reel you use you might need to put some mono line on for backing under the braid...Also the lip on the spool sometimes might need a bit of a polish from time to time as to aid in the line leaving the spool freely....Those few pointers will help in getting the cast your after....

Post edited by: Dazzamcgee, at: 2007/04/17 14:17

[Angus]

Almo: Id have to agree with Dazza, if your struggling to cast the lures you using it could be a few things but most likely it the wrong lure for the gear or location. Firstly you dont always need to cast far, sometimes a couple meters over to some pilons is adequate.

Also sometimes it might be that your rod is either to heavy or light for lure fishing (or the specific lure you are using anyway).

But at the end of the day, sometimes using SX40's im flicking 2-3m to some structure, or say in North Pine Dam throwing a Jakal Lure 30cm into the deep for bass. But the point is the lures are different weights and therefore cast different distances.

Angus

Post edited by: Angus, at: 2007/04/17 15:36

[Brian D]

almO wrote:

Does anyone use sinkers when using hardbody lures?

I find its hard to get very much distance casting otherwise?

I was watching some dude trout fishing on tv with hardbody lures and he had a couple of small sinkers probably around 60cm from his lure.

Any thoughts?

Cheers.

My thoughts on this is that why are you going for distance - most fish are near the drop offs, pillons and rock ledgers. You may be trying to cast beyond where the fish are. You need to get accurate casting in - not so much distance (with exceptions of spinning and jigging). Try the stealth approach rather then sinkers!:pinch:

[almO]

So i should actually be getting myself as close to the bridge/structure etc that i will be casting at? would that not spook the fish?

i spotted a shakspeare rod advertised as 'soft plastic combo'in the amart catalouge on special at $60 from $150 (its about the budget the missus will allow) that i might have to have a look at.

ive also got my eye on some of those angels of death on ebay after those shultz canal story's from a few weeks back.

as for braid. i've heard it is difficult to tie the right knots?

when rigging up to the lure should i be using a loop knot or one of those clips with the swivel? (they seen a lot easier if they work as well??) or do i not need a swivel at all?

thanks for the help!

[jeff f]

avoid the snap swivels and learn to tie a perfection loop.

i have used sinkers with lures (nilsmaster invincibles, halco laser pros)on surfrods chasing tailor and bonito off the beach works well to get the light lure out to a back gutter

[Oztrav]

ive found the uni knot to be a simple knot that has plenty of purposes i guess with braided line you have to wrap the line around a few more times than what you would with braid

i also found with really light braid $pound i couldnt tie knots as easily cause my loops would collapse

[Feral]

I dont worry about leaders or traces on braid unless I am targeting bigger fish.

I use 20lb braid for larger fish such as Barra, dark green spiderwire stealth. I just use a simple bowline for my loop knot. Usually with 20 or 25lb platypus or berkley mono as my leader. Albright knot if I use leader. Have not had a knot fail yet.

For smaller fish like bass I generally use 6lb mono (about the same diameter as the 20lb braid). I will sometimes (as mentioned above) use straight braid if I am in the mood to use it, or hoping for a possible cod or yellow belly in the right impoundment whilst mainly targeting bass.

I use a lot of Ebay lures, some of the hooks are dodgy, but most of the fanatics replace the hooks even on expensive lures - So no real loss!

[Lozzel]

Thanks Feral, Will be watching you very closley next week as Im always out to learn. And have not chased Bass before.Its good to learn from a MASTER.

[almO]

I am mainly aiming for bream with my lures i'd reckon. Maybe a flathead or cod if I'm lucky.

Would bream go for poppers? There are a few of those on ebay at the moment also.

I will be down at raby bay in a couple of weeks and probably give the angels of death a go there in the canals...

Hopefully I can have the right rod for the job by then with the right line. I'll search the net for how to tie some decent knots... and who knows I may eventually catch a fish.

.... if not I guess its back to the servo's frozen prawns

[Feral]

Lozzel wrote:

Thanks Feral, Will be watching you very closley next week as Im always out to learn. And have not chased Bass before.Its good to learn from a MASTER.

I'll probably be using my new 99c ebay 1000 series reel, with some 20lb fireline Ferg had lying around, will chuck the trusty old shimano with 6lb mono in the tackle bag though!

Also I am not a master at Bass, Ray and Graham have been at it a lot longer than me, they just mainly use live bait, I converted to lures about a year ago! (To lazy to collect the bait!)

[kiara_poltegerist]

almO wrote:

Does anyone use sinkers when using hardbody lures?

I find its hard to get very much distance casting otherwise?

I was watching some dude trout fishing on tv with hardbody lures and he had a couple of small sinkers probably around 60cm from his lure.

Any thoughts?

Cheers.

no, generally you wouldnt normally use sinkers when using lures. You lose much of the lure's action, especially with suspending or smaller sized lures. It's harder for you to feel what the lure's doing underwater, and you lose alot of the senstivity as well. There are some exceptions tho- such as bottom bumping with a modified bullet shot and a suspending 30-50mm minnow for bottom hugging bass or Texas or Carolina rigs.

Casting distance depends mostly on your tackle balance - rod rating & taper (fast, medium, regular), lure weight and line poundage. Rod rating and taper matters alot, with length coming into play when dealing with different fishing venues. Your lure weight should be within the range specified by the manufacturer for optimum casting.

Taper plays a very important part as well- fast taper rods need more aggressive casting methods to load up the rod properly while slower taper rods normally need a more relaxed or timed cast to ensure that you allow the rod to load up and unload properly.

Casting style is important too - you have to load your rod properly to get maximum distance achievable with that particular lure weight.

Line poundage is something that you have to look out for as well. Lower poundage lines (therefore much thinner diameters) cast much further than lines of higher poundage, but then again you'll have to remember different lines have different \"feels\". E.g- Powerpro and FINS are rather supple, and are generally easier to handle and achieve more distance on, and stiffer lines like Fireline and FINS Evolution generally feel much stiffer and will take some time to run in. But then again different types of lines have different applications and advantages. But that's another story.

Trout fishing with small lead sinkers up in front of the lure- Japanese paypond trout fishing style. Made popular by Shimano tester Hajime Jim Murata; Area Trout fishing they call it. Generally paypond trout take dulll lures like very simple spoons or stickbaits on a straightforward retrieve. The weight is to get the lure out and keep it down as some of these lures are extremely thin and light- Tacklehouse, Elfin and the LC Wander 45.

[kiara_poltegerist]

Juddy64 wrote:

Ill definately try the braid, but asking one of my mates he said its sometimes gets quite dry on the reel?

knots are just as easy to tie with braid, just you'll have to wet your braid before finishing off the knot to make sure that the heat caused by friction when you pull it tight doesnt damage the line, and also to allow the knot to slip in and close as tight as possible as sloppy knots with braid are prone to slip and let go. For some knots, you'll have to increase the number of turns or double up your line with a spider hitch or a bimini to make sure it doesnt slip.

mono line allows for a more natural lure presentation, but you have to remember that fishing with mono means that you lose alot of sensitivity, and mono line stretches up to 30% when it's wet. So unless you're fishing FC or copolymer based lines I'd advise you to use braided lines for your lure fishing unless you're really scaling down to really really light and thin mono for fishing in gin-clear water or for really really spooky fish.

With braided line, you can feel every bump when the lure makes contact with the bottom or any rubbish such as sticks and stuff, and you have instant hooksets when a fish hits your lure. If you're using a higher end rod, you can even feel the sudden turbulence around your lure if a fish takes a swipe at your lure and misses! Moving your rod tip 3cm means your lure moves 3cm underwater as well. Furthermore, mono lines are susceptible to UV damage that weakens them and increases their stretch factor over time. For myself, when I use mono line (6lb Sunline Tokachi-Gawa) on my light BC setup, I trash the line after 5 sessions.

for lure fishing, I prefer to use cross-locs - basically just like a snap from a snap-swivel, just that it's made of lighter gauge metal, has a much wider end to allow for the lure's action but at the same time is designed so that the harder the force applied on it, the harder the two ends pull at each other. I can post up some pictures if you're not familiar with them. Cross-locs are much better as they allow for fast and easy lure change, and they do not hinder the lure's action at all. Some popular brands are Evergreen, Rosco and Owner. Stay away from snap-swivels if you can, they kill alot of the lure's action, especially if your lure is small or your snap is rather big.

Post edited by: kiara_poltegerist, at: 2007/04/18 06:40

[kiara_poltegerist]

Juddy64 wrote:

AFO guys and girls,

Recently i have found myself scouring the posts and the website for info on how to best use lures, what action to use and the best retrieve for results. I am interested in using hard bodies and soft plastics, the only experience i have is from what ive learnt from here already, just wondering if there is anything else out there to know.

So i guess at the end of it, just wanted to know what sort of retrieval is used for bream/whiting, flathead and for the rivers cod and etc and where lures are most effective. Also if there are any lures you could recommend would be great.

I guess what im asking is imagine your teaching someone for the first time they are lusing a lure and what advice you would give them to make things easier and to keep them keen, as i said i am keen as mustard to learn, i just dont want to get frustrated and give up, thanks Juddy

Hi there Juddy. Nice to see you on the forum. There's no straightforward formula for a retrieve to catch fishes on lures. Fish habits and preferences vary from location to location, and change as variable factors such as water temperature, clarity and stimulus change. Most importantly, every different type of lure has a basic action and style of working it. What we can do is help you out with some basic guidelines for different types of lures. So yea, some specific lure types that you'd be using (jerkbaits, poppers, vibrations etc) would help us to help you out much more .

For river cod, whiting and bream they're basically bottom dwellers/feeders and cod especially are ambush fish. So yea, lures that generally get close to the bottom or that can make contact with the bottom would be your best bet- Vibration lures, floating divers, and some deep diving suspending lures. But as you're just starting out, I'd recommend some floating divers such as the Yo-Zuri Arms crank, Duel Wobiru 1, Storm Thundercrank/Wiggle Wart or the Rapala Taildancers. Crank your lure till you feel the bib hit the bottom, then stop for 2 seconds and then continue again. Another retrieve that works well is ripping your lure along the bottom to make some commotion to attract the fish to come check your lure out.

If you're after cod especially, my advice would be to upsize your lure more- 70mm++. You'd get better casting distance with the lure, your lure'd attract more attention due to the increased turbulence/rattle in the water, and cod often try to inhale lures up to twice their size! Big lures = Big fish!! . If you could get your hands on some old-model Rapala Fat-raps of the current DT series, they'd work well. Small, compact, but with large bibs and dive down extremely sharply.

Generally fish like to hang out around structure, so casts alongside, over and right into the structure will generally draw some strikes. If you're fishing around jetty pylons and stuff, try casting beyond the pylon and bringing your lure back down alongside the pylon, from a breakwater, basically allow your lure to tap the bottom from time to time, and pause to let the lure wobble up slowly before continuing your retrieve. Fish'll often pounce on a lure when it stops but suddenly starts moving again- reaction bites. Different fields will need different approaches, so yea, more specifics would be useful:) .

anyway, that's all from me now mate. hope my information has been useful to you. tightlines!

Post edited by: kiara_poltegerist, at: 2007/04/18 06:31

[Juddy64]

Kiara,

Thanks alot, your right its helped answer my questions and all i need to do now is get out there and try some of those techniques, if you could put up some of those pictures as well of the cros locs that would be great.

Ok, at the moment, im fishing with a 5'6 baitcaster combo i got from tackleworld, i havent really bought any lures as i was wanting to ask that next, as i said the fish i was likely to target are bream, flathead and anything in the rivers that will take a lure. I live at Loganholme, and with easy access to the logan river was hoping to try and fish there but all we have caught are sharks, catfih a couple of estuary cod and thats it, its around the skinners road area and i guess do you think its worht fishing there?

My next question would be was what sort of lures do you think will work there? and with easy access to the south coast ill be going down there to chase bream and flattys in the canals, so again any advice on what lures will work and any other info you can give me to help will be appreciated once again.

So what line would be good to use on the baitcaster?

Also, a couple of mates rented a boat at the spit a few weeks ago, there were a couple of spots where we were picking up whiting, and i was wondering if it was worth using lures in that situation? and if there were any spots handy to my area that i can go lure fishing and what i can catch?

Guys, once again i know this is asking a lot but i would just like to thank everyone who has posted related not just ot this but everything, it has really helped and quenched my thirst for fishing knowledge for the moment getting into the sport, so thanks guys.

[Angus]

Juddy64 wrote:

Kiara,

Thanks alot, your right its helped answer my questions and all i need to do now is get out there and try some of those techniques, if you could put up some of those pictures as well of the cros locs that would be great.

Ok, at the moment, im fishing with a 5'6 baitcaster combo i got from tackleworld, i havent really bought any lures as i was wanting to ask that next, as i said the fish i was likely to target are bream, flathead and anything in the rivers that will take a lure. I live at Loganholme, and with easy access to the logan river was hoping to try and fish there but all we have caught are sharks, catfih a couple of estuary cod and thats it, its around the skinners road area and i guess do you think its worht fishing there?

My next question would be was what sort of lures do you think will work there? and with easy access to the south coast ill be going down there to chase bream and flattys in the canals, so again any advice on what lures will work and any other info you can give me to help will be appreciated once again.

So what line would be good to use on the baitcaster?

Also, a couple of mates rented a boat at the spit a few weeks ago, there were a couple of spots where we were picking up whiting, and i was wondering if it was worth using lures in that situation? and if there were any spots handy to my area that i can go lure fishing and what i can catch?

Guys, once again i know this is asking a lot but i would just like to thank everyone who has posted related not just ot this but everything, it has really helped and quenched my thirst for fishing knowledge for the moment getting into the sport, so thanks guys.

Im not much good with Baitcasters mate. However for the fish your targeting id say prob 8lb-10lb braid and tie a 10lb-12lb leader. Also if there are cod in your local river, they are great fun to target with lures. Cod are not scared of bigger lures either. You will often see a cod with a lure the size of it hanging out its mouth. Just cast towards snags and likely drop offs. If there are cod up there, id say there would also most likely be flatties, bream and maybe even Jacks as well.

In the river and canals down the coast you have a lot to choose from. Where you were catching whiting there would almost certainly be flathead and maybe even jew as well. Noth these fish feed on whiting often. There are some bigger plastics made by Squidgies (Starlo and Bushies) brand name such as Squidgie Fish etc that could work well there. People also catch a lot of Trevs in those waters so dont be afraid to target the surface by either using shallow diving hardbodies, or lighter jig heads on soft plastics and not waiting for it to sink so far before retrieving.

Cheers.

Angus

[Juddy64]

Also, where i am at the logan river, the water is murkey and i dont see how the fish could see the lure, so i was wondering if giving those poerbaits you were takling about a go in ther river, as well as i said is it still worth using the lures in the muddy water ?

[Oztrav]

if your after something on the nose try their gulps

or a lure with a rattle or darker colour scheme

although i ussually just fish bait in murky water

[Angus]

Mate i have fished lures in Murky water loads of times with good results. I think the fish sense the movement more than the colour.

You can also get a wide range of lures with rattles etc inside them. These are also pretty sweet.

If you want to try a good cheap hardbody that makes some noise try and Berkley Frenzy Rattler. I have caught some great fish on them inclusing my PB Flathead.

Angus

[kiara_poltegerist]

Juddy64 wrote:

Also, where i am at the logan river, the water is murkey and i dont see how the fish could see the lure, so i was wondering if giving those poerbaits you were takling about a go in ther river, as well as i said is it still worth using the lures in the muddy water ?

fish dont hunt by sight alone. Their lateral line is very very sensitive to any vibrations or turbulence in the water. very often, fish will hit lures in water that you can put your hand in up to your elbow but cant see your fingers at all- that murky.

Bottom bumping lures or lures with rattles such as vibrations and glass-bead cranks would work well too.

I cant give you much advice on what lures to buy tho - I'm not from Bris .. sorry mate. Angus could help you out alot more there!

[Cowfish13]

The Berkly Frenzies are great lures. In the logan river, I caught a small flathead on one and then out in the bay, I caught 20 or so fish on 1 lure including Pike, Whiptails, Grubfish and even a big Porcuepine fish

[Juddy64]

Guys,

Just wondering what your thoughts are on colours for lures, im looking at rattling lures and those frenzys. but just realied there are about 50 colours, just wondering if there are any to look out for?

[Cowfish13]

I caught the small flathead in the logan river on a small mediam diving minnow that was and Orangy-Gold type of colour. The fish out in the bay where caught on a slightly larger lure, that was green, with stripes and a bright orange belly

[Angus]

In general i like gold/brown/yellow lures.

However, the frenzy i was talking about that has caught me good fish in the past was green and orange with black stripes.

Angus

P.S. Attached is a pic of a greedy spangled perch with the frenzy hanging out its mouth. Taken at Baroon Pocket Dam. [img size=448]http://www.australianfishing.com.au/media/kunena/attachments/legacy/images/bibless1-f71c1efc6afe4f87bae71ae5d6acc174.JPG

Post edited by: Angus, at: 2007/04/19 15:13

[Angus]

Same lure same day. Bass! [img size=400]http://www.australianfishing.com.au/media/kunena/attachments/legacy/images/bibless2-1840f240230129832c409ce63f030cef.JPG

[Angus]

Same Lure. Different day. This was a flatty taken on teh same frenzy in the Kedron Brook (murky water mate). [img size=225]http://www.australianfishing.com.au/media/kunena/attachments/legacy/images/Image101.jpg

[Juddy64]

Cool thanks for the pics,

Yeah i just hopped on ebay and got a goldy/white/brown rattlr sinking one, and a grey ghost popper i might give those a try they were pretty cheap so hopefully ill be going back to get more.

I.m going to give the rattlr a shot at the logan i think on sat morning then im going out on a tinny down the coast im pretty sure sat night so ill try a couple of others then i think, thanks again

yeah angus, so your obviously around brisbane, where do you normally go fishing because it sounds like i have a lot to learn and wouldnt mind seeing some lure action in person just to see how its done

[Angus]

Mate no worries. You would be more than welcome to join in a luring day.

I often post in both the \"Going Fishing\" and \"Fishing Events\" section of the forum.

If you are looking for luring buddies (me included) this is a great place to start.

Im a fan of the more the merrier so ill usually almost always post here even if its a random spur of the moment trip.

Cheers.

Angus