Litter off side of boat

[haines490slc]

When I was at Curtains the other day, it was dissapointing to see the bloke fishing next to me simply flick his used cigarette butt into the water time after time. Do you guys see this, and what is your response? I am thinking of setting up the video camera next time, zoom in ensuring i get boat rego, and sending to the authorities. What are your thoughts??

[plugger]

dont think the authorities would care mate, nothing you can do other than give him an ear bashing. but anyone feel free to correct me if i'm wrong

[haines490slc]

dont think the authorities would care mate, nothing you can do other than give him an ear bashing. but anyone feel free to correct me if i'm wrong

yeah, not worth earbashing either, don't like creating confrontations during an activity that is meant to be relaxing.

[plugger]

true might get a sinker in the back of the head :ohmy:

[Malcolm]

I left some of my buts out in the garden at work to see if they would break down and between two and three months you could roll what was left between your fingers and they would just disintegrate.

Cant imagine them lasting long in the salt and sun.

Definitely not as long as lead, plastics, hooks, fishing line, 2 stroke oil ect.

Still not the practise but I wouldn't bother starting anything over it.

[Gad]

dont think the authorities would care mate, nothing you can do other than give him an ear bashing. but anyone feel free to correct me if i'm wrong

yeah, not worth earbashing either, don't like creating confrontations during an activity that is meant to be relaxing.

as a smoker,I don`t find it difficult to take a small container (in the boat) to drop my smoked butts in, and empty them into the bin when I do my clean up when I get home.

what I find hard to fathom, are the grubs (smokers & non smokers ?) who can cart X amount of grog/soft drinks,assorted famine relief packages,and other packaged stuff out for a session on the water, then return and leave all their crap scattered around on the ground,near the bins provided,at /near boat ramps/parks.

Ok on weekends these bins can often be full by the afternoon,but surely it doesn`t take much to throw in a garbage bag and take it home with you if/when the bins are full

[Guest]

I see this happen quite alot in the seaway, i dont bother saying anything, i just think what a F Head... :dry:

If i see rubbish, i pick it up then place it in a bin when i reach shore

Cheers

Darren

[billythakid]

im with gad on this one , takes 2 seconds to put them out and put the butts in a container and take them home and bin them , If i forget a container i just dip them in water to put them out and put them in the side pocket of the tinny till i get home and clean them out . No excuse to flick them overboard except laziness

[haines490slc]

http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/environmental_management/waste/pdf/litter-dumping-laws.pdf

You can now report this kind of activity, if you see someone flicking a butt of a boat, report it and $300 fine.

[dhess]

Yeah I get seriously annoyed grubs. True it mightn't take long for a butt to decompose but the few weeks is long enough for a fish or bird to ingest it and die.

I think reporting littering losers is great but despite there being a place to report to, in my experience public servants are usually too lazy to do anything about it as it eats into their solitaire time.

[Woodlaz]

>http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/environmental_management/waste/pdf/litter-dumping-laws.pdf

You can now report this kind of activity, if you see someone flicking a butt of a boat, report it and $300 fine.

WOW!! -- whattabout lures, plastics, balloons as floats, rubber bands for outriggers etc etc??? I'm not encouraging littering but cmon, is this for friggin real. Whats next????

[Damien2Rad]

It frustrates me how often I come home from fishing with other peoples rubbish in the back of my ute.

Not a lot you can do, sadly.

Just do your bit.

[ellicat]

Yeah, I am a goody two shoes as well. Usually forget to take a container when on someone else's boat so the butts are accumulated in my shirt pocket. If I'm lucky the washing lady leaves them there so I have clean filters for the next trip.

The thought of a fish dieing from eating a ciggy butt has me in stitches though. Any evidence on that one, Dom ?

Woodlaz is right though. I'd prefer to see the government focus its spending on more important issues.

[dhess]

The thought of a fish dieing from eating a ciggy butt has me in stitches though. Any evidence on that one, Dom ?

Not directly, but I have it on good authority that fish that regularly consume cigarette buts have a greatly elevated risk of developing esophageal and colorectal cancers.

[ellicat]

That's just natural selection at work for those silly enough not to spit them out. I'm starting to think there may be environmental benefits to emptying my shirt pocket at the ramp :silly:

[HiRAEdd]

What I find even worse than amateur fisherpersons flicking cigarette butts overboard is when charter operators/staff do it. They're out there trying to make a living from the fishery but then just throw the byproduct of their filthy habit overboard.

Anyone who would like to poo-poo the idea that a cigarette butt couldn't hurt a fish or any other marine life, there's plenty of research out there to indicate otherwise:
/>http://universe.sdsu.edu/sdsu_newscenter/news.aspx?s=71209
/>http://www.whalesalive.org.au/resources/cigbutt.pdf

The list goes on:
/>https://www.google.com/search?q=marine+life+cigarette+butts&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Kudos to any smokers who don't litter the environment. I may not like your habit but I respect you for taking responsibility.

Cheers,

Gavin

[Bi_polar]

If you look at the big picture and think about how many people do this and how many cigarettes they smoke each outing..... In Moreton bay alone i recon you could fill a large garbage bin full of butts every day.

Imagine that over a year.... It soon adds up

[haines490slc]

If you see it report it using the online form, get a description of the boat/car, rego number and the person littering. I called DERM yesterday and you will be getting a 300 - 400 dollar fine in the mail if someone dobs you in for littering a butt from Feb1 next year, warning letters up to that point.

[max pwr]

If you see it report it using the online form, get a description of the boat/car, rego number and the person littering. I called DERM yesterday and you will be getting a 300 - 400 dollar fine in the mail if someone dobs you in for littering a butt from Feb1 next year, warning letters up to that point.

That's nuts! I can see instances where someone cuts somebody else off in traffic then all the aggreived has to do is dob them in for throwing a ciggy butt out the window and BAM! fine!

This state is going to the dogs! Someone threw a chunk of cement through my shop window on friday night, tried to report it and gave up cos of the lack of interest from the cops but god forbid I see somebody chucking a ciggy butt out and they're right onto it. What the hell?

[haines490slc]

Well the person who makes the report has to be willing to stand up in court if the person who recieves the fine decides to challenge it.

[Bi_polar]

Or record it and remain annonomous

[aussie123]

I hope none of you guys leave hooks,sinkers,line or lures on the bottom or in a fishes mouth or piss over the side of the boat as that is all a form of littering.

I also hope you don't run fuel and oil through your motors as that is also littering or worse still poisoning the water.

It doesn't matter what you do or say but every person on the water litters in one way or another.

[ellicat]

What I find even worse than amateur fisherpersons flicking cigarette butts overboard is when charter operators/staff do it. They're out there trying to make a living from the fishery but then just throw the byproduct of their filthy habit overboard.

Anyone who would like to poo-poo the idea that a cigarette butt couldn't hurt a fish or any other marine life, there's plenty of research out there to indicate otherwise:
/>http://universe.sdsu.edu/sdsu_newscenter/news.aspx?s=71209
/>http://www.whalesalive.org.au/resources/cigbutt.pdf

The list goes on:
/>https://www.google.com/search?q=marine+life+cigarette+butts&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Kudos to any smokers who don't litter the environment. I may not like your habit but I respect you for taking responsibility.

Cheers,

Gavin

From the first link

"chemicals from just one filtered cigarette butt had the ability to kill fish living in a one-liter bucket of water" ROFL. You cannot take this crap seriously.

Given the option of eating a ciggy butt or drinking the same volume of 2stroke oil...I'd be chewing not drinking.

The 2nd link is unsubstantiated propaganda.

The links in the Google search result page all use the classic BS wording the Greens are infamous for. Words like "could" "might" "can" etc etc, there are no black and white definitive words like "do".

Anyway it is not a filthy habit, but I'm all for a clean environment and against littering so will continue to agree along those lines.

[haines490slc]

Ellicat, I tend to think that Dr Richard Gersberg who conducted the research would have a bit of an idea what he is talking about over you dismissing it as rubbish.

Please tell us why the second link is propoganda, it contains links to EPA data???

[ellicat]

One litre of water (that is less than a Coca Cola bottle) with one ciggy butt (not defined whether it was one with tobacco or not) is hardly comparable to the natural environment. You need to assess someone's agenda rather than if they have Dr in front of their name....especially a US one. I'll back myself against his (mis)information anyday.

The same can be said for an EPA paper/link. I didn't follow any as the pdf link only spoke about this topic in the first paragraph and then went off on a tangent for the rest, trying to fool readers.

Anything you read from green groups you really need to sort the shit from the clay...actually it is more like you have to sort the clay from the shit.

Tell me, why do you fall for this rubbish so easily ?

[haines490slc]

Yes and your constant dismissal of anything from one side of politics and the acceptance of anything from another as gospel means you have an agenda also, hence why I dismiss anything you say in relation to this matter.

[ellicat]

More fool you.

Nothing political about my comments. Facts are facts and the benefit of ageing is the vast reduction of gullibility.

[HiRAEdd]

One litre of water (that is less than a Coca Cola bottle) with one ciggy butt (not defined whether it was one with tobacco or not) is hardly comparable to the natural environment.

The problem isn't so much the cigarette butt floating around in the ocean, it's when the fish, dolphin, turtle or whatever swallows it. It's toxic to their system and the research indicates it will probably kill them either through toxicity or starvation.

I realise you're for the same end result (no littering) just through a different argument but regardless, to dismiss the research because your age somehow makes you more qualified to distinguish fact from propaganda is egotistical and a tad insulting.

Cheers,

Gavin

[haines490slc]

One litre of water (that is less than a Coca Cola bottle) with one ciggy butt (not defined whether it was one with tobacco or not) is hardly comparable to the natural environment.

The problem isn't so much the cigarette butt floating around in the ocean, it's when the fish, dolphin, turtle or whatever swallows it. It's toxic to their system and the research indicates it will probably kill them either through toxicity or starvation.

I realise you're for the same end result (no littering) just through a different argument but regardless, to dismiss the research because your age somehow makes you more qualified to distinguish fact from propaganda is egotistical and a tad insulting.

Cheers,

Gavin

well siad, and the fact you have "beware of the greens" in your signoff, means that no one can take any comment you make in relation to issues with the environment seriously.

[ellicat]

One litre of water (that is less than a Coca Cola bottle) with one ciggy butt (not defined whether it was one with tobacco or not) is hardly comparable to the natural environment.

The problem isn't so much the cigarette butt floating around in the ocean, it's when the fish, dolphin, turtle or whatever swallows it. It's toxic to their system and the research indicates it will probably kill them either through toxicity or starvation.

I realise you're for the same end result (no littering) just through a different argument but regardless, to dismiss the research because your age somehow makes you more qualified to distinguish fact from propaganda is egotistical and a tad insulting.

Cheers,

Gavin

Haha. With age comes experience. Just ignore the egotistical bit. That's just stirring up Haines who has decided to challenge me on anything that has a skerick of politic vibe because he is blind faith believer in a particular side of politics. My only political bias is against the noxious The Greens party who are the most deceitful and arrogant I have ever seen and yet attract the unwitting youngsters. Just take a look at GetUp etc.

Perhaps you could point me to the part in your links where it states that a dolphin's stomach is not capable of passing a butt. I saw the bit where they said they have found turtles with butts in their gut but nothing else. They never mentioned research.

[ellicat]

One litre of water (that is less than a Coca Cola bottle) with one ciggy butt (not defined whether it was one with tobacco or not) is hardly comparable to the natural environment.

The problem isn't so much the cigarette butt floating around in the ocean, it's when the fish, dolphin, turtle or whatever swallows it. It's toxic to their system and the research indicates it will probably kill them either through toxicity or starvation.

I realise you're for the same end result (no littering) just through a different argument but regardless, to dismiss the research because your age somehow makes you more qualified to distinguish fact from propaganda is egotistical and a tad insulting.

Cheers,

Gavin

well siad, and the fact you have "beware of the greens" in your signoff, means that no one can take any comment you make in relation to issues with the environment seriously.

No, I have "Beware of The Greens". That is The Greens the political party. It is not "beware of the greens", as genuine environmentalists are not the point of my disdain. This is why The and Greens have capitals at the start - it means it is a name. That name being The Greens. The political party with Bob Brown at the helm.

[shortie]

Haines i will gladly stand up in court and say i saw you throw a butt in the water. Why? Because i dont like you.

The government is going to love this new Cash cow.

And lets see video evidence. your going to have your video camera aimed at a person just at the opportune moment when they flick their butt into the water. Good Luck.

What a joke

[haines490slc]

go for it just be aware making a false statement is an offence and if I have anyone on my boat with me they will gladly state that I didn't litter. Plus I have saved this page so if a report is made I can have the police follow you up for admitting you will make a false statement champ.

[HiRAEdd]

The Greens party are deceitful and arrogant. Agreed. That aside, cigarette butts are still harmful to a range of marine life even in small doses.

From http://www.digitaltermpapers.com/b2222.htm: "Cigarette butts have been found in the guts of whales, dolphins, seabirds and turtles after they have mistaken them for food. One turtles was reported to have swallowed up to 200 butts. The toxic chemicals in the cigarette butts can ‘cause inflammation of the animal’s digestive system and, if they trigger a blockage of the gut, lead to death.’" (not sure on the original reference to this quote as I don't have a login).

From http://www.docstoc.com/docs/22910665/Effect-of-cigarette-butt-pollution-on-marine-life: "Because marine mammals like dolphins are at the top of the food train, and because they have the most blubber which is where toxins concentrate, they build up the highest levels of contaminants. The effect of these contaminants on marine mammals include: tumors, immune system breakdown resulting in outbreaks of viruses, abnormal growth, and reproductive disorders such as still births, and calf mortality due to toxins passing through the mothers milk."

Cheers,

Gavin

[shortie]

go for it just be aware making a false statement is an offence and if I have anyone on my boat with me they will gladly state that I didn't litter. Plus I have saved this page so if a report is made I can have the police follow you up for admitting you will make a false statement champ

Se my point exactly. your word against mine. there will never be a fine issued.

My mate on my boat can testify that i dont and didnt litter.

It wasnt a threat, i was making a point.ROFL

its just stupid laws made with no thought of how the world really works

[haines490slc]

Shortie its a pity we need laws like this, the amount of litter I see around the place is disturbing to say the least, I ride my bike home and the amount of butts I see at every intersection is unbelievable. Not to mention all the fires it starts on the sides of the road!!

[ellicat]

Gavin,

The second quote, from memory, is where they were talking about plastics etc. It was in the "tangent" part of the pdf article you posted up earlier.

The first quote only says that those animals were found with them in their gut. It doesn't state they were the cause of death (assuming they were dead of course). The only solid thing I can see is that they found one turtle with a penchant for ciggy butts lol. Even then they don't say it was dead. I'll concede that it is likely the turtle does not have a gut capable of passing butts. That's enough for me not to litter even though they are a pain in the butt when fishing :pinch:

Thanks for the level-headed discussion

[HiRAEdd]

Yes and no. Whilst you're right that the article was talking about both cigarettes and plastics, pesticides etc. in the same article, organochlorines are also found in cigarettes. Much less so for tobacco grown in first world countries but for tobacco grown in other countries, it along with heavy metals are found in quite substantial amounts in crops and products. My understanding - and I'm happy to be corrected if wrong - is that much of the world's tobacco is produced in third world countries.

And yes, whilst I guess you could say that you do have to connect the dots in the first article it's reasonable to assume that to examine the gut, the animal was dead. The cause of death in any one particular instance may or may not be related to cigarette butts but that the butt could get caught - even temporarily - and that the animal's health could be harmed or it could die as a result is difficult to argue otherwise.

You don't want butts in the environment, I don't want butts in the environment. I'm just not sure where to stop this discussion

Cheers,

Gavin

[ellicat]

Here is a good place I reckon :S

[Bushpig]

... Firstly I'm a smoker :evil: , yup one of those smelly, unhealthy over taxed puffers who seems to be held responsible for everything from the hole in the ozone layer to global warming :blush: . We all agree that any form of litterring is bad (not negotiable) but to continually wax lyrical about cigarette 'butts' is a tad rediculous when there are far more serious concerns out there. I'm willing to bet more damage to the environment was done by towing your vehicle to the ramp than by any stray cigarette but that inadvertently found it's way overboard :evil: ...