Ban of Live cattle to Indonesia Petition

[ellicat]

There is a shipment from Brazil preparing to make the 3 week journey from there as we discuss it now.

Listened to Wilkie, Bandt, the Getup geese and someothers being interviewed. They are narrow focussed people.

[RedHerring]

I heard on the radio yesterday that the Indonesian government, if the Aus government lift the Ban, were not going to accept any more cattle from Australia anymore. Obvious I thought.

We have top class beef, some of the best in the world.

Doubt they will ban us.

Quality don't count for shite when realibilty of supply, interference from suppliers and costs are questionable. If they could get it cheaper from somewhere elsevthey would get it. Plus 3rd world countries are highly unlikely to buy shiploads of the best beef for the mass population. Everything is about economics

Quality doesn't count?

Does not sound like a very informed reply, where are you getting your information from?.. Damiki?

I do not agree with putting people out of business and the whole situation has had ample time to prepare for a shutdown, somehow noone bothered.

These issues have been on the table for years.

But at least get your facts straight I mean that is what annoys me a little about these forums is that the guy with the biggest boat all of a sudden becomes the voice of all things true and rightous, with little if any real backup information or logical thought.

If everything is about economics you would know that investment pays off in the long term.

[Keen-as-fisho]

I heard on the radio yesterday that the Indonesian government, if the Aus government lift the Ban, were not going to accept any more cattle from Australia anymore. Obvious I thought.

We have top class beef, some of the best in the world.

Doubt they will ban us.

Quality don't count for shite when realibilty of supply, interference from suppliers and costs are questionable. If they could get it cheaper from somewhere elsevthey would get it. Plus 3rd world countries are highly unlikely to buy shiploads of the best beef for the mass population. Everything is about economics

Quality doesn't count?

Does not sound like a very informed reply, where are you getting your information from?.. Damiki?

Like I said before, its a business, money talks and bullpoo walks. Simple basic economics

[RedHerring]

I heard on the radio yesterday that the Indonesian government, if the Aus government lift the Ban, were not going to accept any more cattle from Australia anymore. Obvious I thought.

We have top class beef, some of the best in the world.

Doubt they will ban us.

Quality don't count for shite when realibilty of supply, interference from suppliers and costs are questionable. If they could get it cheaper from somewhere elsevthey would get it. Plus 3rd world countries are highly unlikely to buy shiploads of the best beef for the mass population. Everything is about economics

Quality doesn't count?

Does not sound like a very informed reply, where are you getting your information from?.. Damiki?

Like I said before, its a business, money talks and bullpoo walks. Simple basic economics

Bussiness is not worth a cent if the government shuts it down for poor standards.

[ellicat]

Quality doesn't count?

Does not sound like a very informed reply, where are you getting your information from?.. Damiki?

I do not agree with putting people out of business and the whole situation has had ample time to prepare for a shutdown, somehow noone bothered.

These issues have been on the table for years.

But at least get your facts straight I mean that is what annoys me a little about these forums is that the guy with the biggest boat all of a sudden becomes the voice of all things true and rightous, with little if any real backup information or logical thought.

If everything is about economics you would know that investment pays off in the long term.

You know you are welcome not to be here. You keep comimng back and continue to be antisocial in your interactions with the people here. There is a delete button on your profile if you can't stick to straight debate without making an arse of yourself.

[fishingnut]

I heard on the radio yesterday that the Indonesian government, if the Aus government lift the Ban, were not going to accept any more cattle from Australia anymore. Obvious I thought.

We have top class beef, some of the best in the world.

Doubt they will ban us.

Quality don't count for shite when realibilty of supply, interference from suppliers and costs are questionable. If they could get it cheaper from somewhere elsevthey would get it. Plus 3rd world countries are highly unlikely to buy shiploads of the best beef for the mass population. Everything is about economics

Quality doesn't count?

Does not sound like a very informed reply, where are you getting your information from?.. Damiki?

I do not agree with putting people out of business and the whole situation has had ample time to prepare for a shutdown, somehow noone bothered.

These issues have been on the table for years.

But at least get your facts straight I mean that is what annoys me a little about these forums is that the guy with the biggest boat all of a sudden becomes the voice of all things true and rightous, with little if any real backup information or logical thought.

If everything is about economics you would know that investment pays off in the long term.

Welcome back Dan, you crack me up

[crazywalrus]

These issues have been on the table for years.

But at least get your facts straight I mean that is what annoys me a little about these forums is that the guy with the biggest boat all of a sudden becomes the voice of all things true and rightous, with little if any real backup information or logical thought.

If everything is about economics you would know that investment pays off in the long term.

I am trying to understand what you are saying. "Who has the bigger boat" - You obviously have a problem with people in business and you are quite obviously a unionist. If there where not people like Rob, or other self employed people then there would not be jobs for people in unions. The tall poppy attitude is ridiculous. We need income coming into this country otherwise we go broke.

To quote you a Government worth its cent would not have banned the shipment.

It is ok for you to sit back on your group bargained wage to ignorantly tell the world what to do however this is not reality. The consumer in Indonesia is not buying on quality they are buying to put food in their stomach. You probably earn in an hour what these people earn for the day. The cattle being live exported are not the high quality beast destined for the Jap Ox market they are the grass feed animals that are only destined for the cheaper end of the market.

The argument against exporting stock to overseas abattoirs that has been going on for a while was not about animal welfare it was about the meat workers loosing their jobs and trying to use this to get some leverage. This occurrence is happening in all Australian industries because we are not competitive with the wages and conditions in other countries. It is this issue why industries are going offshore all the time and now we have just upset a market that we had where we had some competitive advantage. Well done labour.

[fishingnut]

Thanks Ted, well said

[RedHerring]

These issues have been on the table for years.

But at least get your facts straight I mean that is what annoys me a little about these forums is that the guy with the biggest boat all of a sudden becomes the voice of all things true and rightous, with little if any real backup information or logical thought.

If everything is about economics you would know that investment pays off in the long term.

I am trying to understand what you are saying. "Who has the bigger boat" - You obviously have a problem with people in business and you are quite obviously a unionist. If there where not people like Rob, or other self employed people then there would not be jobs for people in unions. The tall poppy attitude is ridiculous. We need income coming into this country otherwise we go broke.

To quote you a Government worth its cent would not have banned the shipment.

It is ok for you to sit back on your group bargained wage to ignorantly tell the world what to do however this is not reality. The consumer in Indonesia is not buying on quality they are buying to put food in their stomach. You probably earn in an hour what these people earn for the day. The cattle being live exported are not the high quality beast destined for the Jap Ox market they are the grass feed animals that are only destined for the cheaper end of the market.

The argument against exporting stock to overseas abattoirs that has been going on for a while was not about animal welfare it was about the meat workers loosing their jobs and trying to use this to get some leverage. This occurrence is happening in all Australian industries because we are not competitive with the wages and conditions in other countries. It is this issue why industries are going offshore all the time and now we have just upset a market that we had where we had some competitive advantage. Well done labour.

wow you read nothing I posted earlier.

I worked in a meatworks here for the last 12 months, I was a union member but the area I worked in was not under union representation, so I was not really able to benefit from anything bargained under union representation.

LOL BTW if you ever worked under non union conditions I think you would change your atitude a little, its heartbreaking.

But I do not like the union so much I simply choose to leave the industry, it's a lost cause for Australian workers if you ask me.

Your talk does not ring true and considering how much I earnt on a weekly basis I am really over this convo.

I also apologise if I offended zim man.

Cheers

[AFO]

Please keep it friendly everyone. As has been well pointed out, if you cannot add comment without keeping it civil and friendly then best just to pass over this thread.

[kiara_poltegerist]

pity that this has to happen. i had dinner with a mate who has a family business in singapore trading meat products internationally. As of this afternoon they were already maneuvering to fill in the gap in the indonesian market with halal meat from other international consignments.

what will happen to all those jackaroos and transport drivers put out of work. i wonder why noone thought about their livelihoods?

[daveylad]

Meat and Livestock Australia(MLA) are the ones to blame and should pay any compensation, they knew about this problem years ago they have created it and have done nothing to fix it, They are called meat & Livestock Australia but it appears they are mainly overseas investors running the company. As far as cultural and religious influences are concerned there is no problem or religious reason that the beast cannot be stunned using the stun guns that would affect the slaughter other than some area dont want to use it, well sell the meat to the ones that do want to do the right thing. Myself I think the cattlemen should be looking at replacing the Meat &Livestock Company doing the exporting and set something up themselves didnt somehting happen a few years ago with the Grain Board.

The MLA get $4.20 for every Ox sold and have done nothing but allow this to happen and provide these ramps at taxpayers expense and are considered atrocious and cruel by the worlds best authority on Cattle slaughter Temple GRANDIN. In all companies there is a Duty of care to the workers (cattlemen) MLA have breached any care whatsoever. I think the stand the govt is taking is warranted its not the 1st time Australia has taken a moral stand at its own expense as a country we are reknown for it. As far as agreeing with what goes on because Indonesia is a developing country and are poor, and the analogy that its business, rubbish two wrongs dont make a right and there is such a thing as Bad business. I hate this govt but thank them for this stance even though it was forced on them by the majority of people

[ellicat]

Perhaps they should have closed the prisons industry when someone showed some inhumane treatment to a prisoner and not paid any employees for the work they had done that week nor paid out any redundancy payments ,just left them to fend for themselves ? "She'll be right mate"

I take it there will be a lot of people boycotting any products from countries that have lesser standards than our own in relation to animals or will hyocrisy reign supreme when the impact affects them ? WHat about travel ? Will tourism to these destinations by Australians cease ? Will the tourists only eat humanely treated vegetables when on holidays ?

There is no benefit to Australia in the big picture here. I cannot agree with the damage to Australian industry as a result of another nation's activities.

Self flagellation at its worst.

and what about the animals that are eaten by other animals in cruel circumstances. Are we going to pen all the animals that might face a predator in the wild ?
/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4K04aHTL-Q

Maybe this is a better way ?
/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNV8h_PR11M

[daveylad]

And Rights for Gay Whales dont forget them

[fishingnut]

And Rights for Gay Whales dont forget them

PMSL

[daveylad]

How about this site for stopping things I think everyone on this tread should buy at least half a dozen each to cover all possible future threads regading bans.

/>http://www.zazzle.com.au/stop+killing+gifts

[Zim man]

Maybe this is a better way ?
/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNV8h_PR11M

man i blasted at this, especially the song at the end. to be a cow is like being a bait fish, no good ending comes of it. i have never heard of a cow dying of old age.

by the way, for those interested that cows name was Billy N Omates.

[ellicat]

man i blasted at this, especially the song at the end. to be a cow is like being a bait fish, no good ending comes of it. i have never heard of a cow dying of old age.

by the way, for those interested that cows name was Billy N Omates.

That music cracked me up too ! I almost commented about it :woohoo:

[ellicat]

[attachment=35404]300px-Gay_whalesshirt.png[/attachment]

How about this site for stopping things I think everyone on this tread should buy at least half a dozen each to cover all possible future threads regading bans.

/>http://www.zazzle.com.au/stop+killing+gifts

:woohoo: Ripper !

They need an extra one that says

STOP KILLING

YOURSELF LAUGHING

:whistle:

[Keen-as-fisho]

HAHAHAHA That music at the end was a great way to finish it off But that poor cow, he was treated cruelly by the lion before its inhumane death :whistle: Oh hold on, its the food chain :whistle:

[Eug]

[attachment=35404]300px-Gay_whalesshirt.png[/attachment]

How about this site for stopping things I think everyone on this tread should buy at least half a dozen each to cover all possible future threads regading bans.

/>http://www.zazzle.com.au/stop+killing+gifts

i think pink really brings out the colour of yours eyes

[Guest]

I agree save the Whales..well some of then Not All :dry:

Cheers

Darren

[ellicat]

Interview with Indonesian dude.

/>http://www.4bc.com.au/blogs/4bc-blog/an-indonesian-perspective/20110610-1fvqg.html

[Gad]

Hey people, I`m confused... some people signed petitions,some people rang a pollie,etc to protest the treatment of live exports to Indonesia, so the Australian government(as did Howards government in the mid 2000`s re Egypt) bans live exports to Indonesia,13,000 jobs affected to various degrees,$800+million trade in limbo.

So tell me... where are these same ralliers,where are the same petitions,where are the same people ringing pollies screaming for the live export cattle that are now on board ships heading to Indonesia from countries that will fill the void left by the Australian government`s livestock ban.

Was this great outcry really about the cruelty of cattle going to Indonesia or was it just pretend fuzzy wuzzy warm glow for some.

Was this another "off the front page"out of sight,out of mind so called victory for the "hot topic of the moment cause",that let`s you sleep well at night while 13,000 fellow Australian workers lie awake at night worrying about feeding the family,paying morgages etc...

Hope the fuzzy wuzzy warm glow continues if/when one sees on the news sensitive rainforest`s etc being cut down for more cattle land to help fill the void left by the Australian government bans.

[daveylad]

What you are doing here gad is assuming pople dont give a tinkers Cuss about the other issues you have outlined...How do you know that other people havent taken up these issues also.

As Australians its who we are as a nation that we take up these issues and other issues thats why as a country we are admired in the world and people want to come here because of our standard of living and our way of life.

I would hate to think that we would just continue to trade with Indonesia without correcting the issue then we shouldt sleep at night we should worry. Dont prempt what others are doing; I petitioned about the fishing bans, i give monies to charities, do charitable work and care about many issues and I'm sure millions of others do also.

[crazywalrus]

Not sure that is what Gad meant by his post Davey. I think he was referring to the cattle coming from other countries to Indonesia to fill the Gap left by the Ban. I think he was asking where are the petitions to save these animals from cruelty. As he said there does not seem to be any at the moment and since the Australian ban the outcry has seemed to have subsided and everybody seems to be satisfied that this has stopped it but in reality it has not. It think we all give to charities and support causes. I have to agree with him that the cattle coming from other countries will see the same conditions and treatment as the previous cattle coming from Australia. I have my view on this and I believe that we did not need to make a blanket ban as there where Abattoirs doing the right thing.

[daveylad]

oh sorry gad if I misunderstood. :dry: :blush:

[harfish]

The end user who devours this meat killed on the videos must have a good set of teeth. My experience is this meat would be as tough as buggerery . Maybe a shipment of our processed meat subsidised by our government handed out in selected places indonesia would be a more economic solution to get the problem slaughterhouses to change their ways. These methods and use of the media to immediately change laws in our country is a dangerous practice. I am glad i am not travelling to bali or indonesia for holidays in the near future. Diplomacy should be used first before we resort to these terrorist style tactics.

[Gad]

What you are doing here gad is assuming pople dont give a tinkers Cuss about the other issues you have outlined...How do you know that other people havent taken up these issues also. As Australians its who we are as a nation that we take up these issues and other issues thats why as a country we are admired in the world and people want to come here because of our standard of living and our way of life.

I would hate to think that we would just continue to trade with Indonesia without correcting the issue then we shouldt sleep at night we should worry. Dont prempt what others are doing; I petitioned about the fishing bans, i give monies to charities, do charitable work and care about many issues and I'm sure millions of others do also.

...there are no other issues outlined,the issue is the same issue "Ban on Australian Live Cattle Exports to Indonesia",what is occurring now is the reality of the "Poo hits the Fan" consequences of knee jerk reactions to appease the fuzzy wuzzy warm feel good brigade..

The outcry about the cruelty is right,but the knee jerk reaction is politically motivated,and hurts,in situations like this, no one but fellow Australians.

The way forward,and to protect Australian trade and Australian workers jobs with out immediate bans, was for Australian and Indonesian government departments to work together to bring in similar agreements as happened with the live exports to Egypt,after all that is what will be happening behind the scenes now.

[ellicat]

Not sure if the men will use a silencer and blindfold

/>http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/07/05/3261362.htm

Outback station to cull thousands of cattle

Graziers say they will have to cull thousands of cattle because of the ban on live exports to Indonesia. (AAP: Dave Hunt)

The owners of a Western Australian cattle station say they are being forced to cull about 3,000 cattle in the wake of the ban on live exports to Indonesia.

Australia's live cattle trade with Indonesia was suspended last month after public outrage at footage of cruelty to cattle in some Indonesian abattoirs.

But Nico Botha from Moola Bulla Station near Halls Creek in the Kimberley says they will have to start shooting the animals on his property tomorrow.

Mr Botha says there are currently 25,000 head of cattle on his property and those numbers need to be reduced because there is not enough natural grass to feed them all.

"We'd rather shoot them now than go through over grazing, dying in the paddocks, struggling to get the paddocks better again," he said.

"That's going to take us another three years, so [we'd] rather do our decision now than go through all the other dramas."

Mr Botha says he knows of other pastoralists who will also have to cull.

He says the Federal Government does not realise that cattle are going to die on paddocks in the thousands.

"They're just going to starve themselves to death, and that's what (the Federal Government) created - the biggest animal welfare issue in the history of Australia," he said.

"Animals are going to die on the paddocks in huge numbers and we're not talking hundreds, we're talking thousands."

The Federal Opposition also says the growing number of cattle stranded in Australia is creating an animal welfare crisis at home.

The Opposition spokesman for agriculture and food security, John Cobb, says if the live export ban is not lifted soon, the number of cattle left behind will cause serious environmental and animal welfare issues.

Mr Cobb has returned from a three-day trip to Indonesia to look at the impact of the ban.

He says those MPs calling for a total ban do not comprehend the impact on the animals.

"If these cattle do have to be all shipped down south, that is far more stressful for them than getting on a boat where they can stand around and feed and water," he said.

"[it would] make them far happier going up north to the tropics in terms of climatic condition than coming down south to the cold."

Stranded cattle

Meanwhile, nearly all of the 2,000 cattle stranded in a South Hedland holding yard in the wake of the ban have left the property.

The cattle have been at the yard for about a month.

Hedland export depot owner Paul Brown says about 400 are left but they should be gone by the end of the week.

"Some have gone to another exporter for another market, others have gone to different locations, various locations with different buyers with different intentions," he said.

Yesterday, WA pastoralists called for Federal Agriculture Minister Joe Ludwig to be sacked from his portfolio following his handling of the situation.

Pastoralists and Graziers Association president Rob Gillam says the industry has lost confidence in Senator Ludwig.

"The industry is now very much aware that Minister Ludwig has been to Indonesia and has exacerbated the situation by embarrassing the Indonesians in the way he went about it," he said.

"People are saying quite clearly that he is not capable of dealing with the current situation so he needs to be replaced."

Mr Gillam says Senator Ludwig has done nothing but upset the Indonesians.

Every year more than 500,000 Australian cattle are exported to Indonesia. The trade made up 60 per cent of live cattle exports last year and generated $319 million.

[malram]

Knee-jerk reaction from the government here. I am completely against the banning of live export and IMO an action to appease the masses come election time.

Surely it would be much cheaper to provide a source for the offending abattoirs for management and proper practices. Instead we are putting the financial livelihood of 10's of thousands of our own citizens in limbo.

These sorts of practices have been going on for decades and to think otherwise is just naive. It's only when images shown pull the emotional strings of viewers that they create an uproar.

[Gad]

yep and it gets rosier by the day,heard on the radio today Indonesia is proposing to place their own live import ban on Australia exports.So government and Livestock groups negotiations with Indonesia over there are wobbly

So when is GetUp going to rally & set up petitions about this proposed slaughter of these cattle,after all these are the same cattle (plus more)they wanted saved 4 weeks ago.

[ellicat]

I heard a good plan was to send 800 cattle to Malaysia where they will only hit them with canes. Also we get 4000 back that have already been hit with canes. :whistle:

There are calls being made from industry for the head of Ludwig as he has offended the Indonesians with his "negotiating" skills. :pinch: