Letter of cocern RE illegal fishing practices

[nathanquigley]

Hi all,

Inspired by the determination of madmullet to do something about the constant and frustrating practice of the minority ignoring bag limits and sizes here in queensland, I've decided I'm going to draft a letter to all relevant authorities with, i hope, the backing of many many signatures.

I am in no way trying to reopen a debate or restart the sand pumping thread. This thread is only intended to gather support and suggestions from those who would like to be a part of this appeal.

My vision is to send a well formulated letter expression concern and dismay over the free and wanton disregard of the rules and regulations by a minority of fisherman who are doing serious damage to the environment. to list locations where these practices are common and most problematic. The letter will also express concern over the current level of fisheries officers available to enforce the rules, and make references to the ideas of increased penalities and fines to increase the risk of the practice for those engaging.

The aim of the letter is to show the local government departments and authorities that:

The problem is growing

There is no reason why simple measures could not be taken to address it

There is a significant body of local citizens who are banding together to ensure their voice is heard on this matter, and whom will keep pressing the issue to some form of intervention is mounted

What I need: suggestions on this idea, and what the letter should include. And if people are willing to support it, your full name and postcode to include with the letter. This can be sent by pm if you dont want to post it publicly.

What do you all think of the idea?

Cheers,

Nathan

[haines490slc]

love your work, I will sign it.

[aussie123]

My name will go on it.

[jeff f]

yeah ill put my name on it

[ellicat]

My recommendation is that you stick to substantiated facts in your submission. Don't let emotional thoughts enter into it.

As I see it the core of the issue is the lack of enforcement and reaction times from those able to enforce, as well as a lack of indisputable and obvious signange at places that are well known to be hotspots for offenders.

I would stay away from stuff like "ruining the fishery" etc as that is unproven and probably unlikely as they haven't ruined the numbers over the long period they have been doing it. The same as netters. They keep coming back to spots because the fish keep coming back unabated.

[nathanquigley]

My recommendation is that you stick to substantiated facts in your submission. Don't let emotional thoughts enter into it.

As I see it the core of the issue is the lack of enforcement and reaction times from those able to enforce, as well as a lack of indisputable and obvious signange at places that are well known to be hotspots for offenders.

I would stay away from stuff like "ruining the fishery" etc as that is unproven and probably unlikely as they haven't ruined the numbers over the long period they have been doing it. The same as netters. They keep coming back to spots because the fish keep coming back unabated.

:cheer: that is good stuff

/>http://www.daff.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/policy

my ideas follow along the lines of a report Published by the National Steering Committee on Recreational Fishing. Havent had a chance to go through it all yet, but it seems this government report contains much of the factual info RE recreational fishing impact on fish stocks, management etc. Points of interest ive already noted is the suggestion of increased funding for community awareness and policy implementation by fisheries to ensure future stocks of fish. surely the management of overfishing through illegal exceeding of bag limits/keeping undersized fish falls into this category,

anyhow, ill work through this report and get back with the main points when i can,

cheers,

nathan

[Gad]

Hi all,

What I need: suggestions on this idea, and what the letter should include. And if people are willing to support it, your full name and postcode to include with the letter. This can be sent by pm if you dont want to post it publicly.

What do you all think of the idea?

Cheers,

Nathan

I think this is a sensible idea,and agree with ellicats post

haines490slc quote:[love your work, I will sign it.]quote

seeming your signing the as yet unknown,would you also include you bank details with the necessary password in case postage is needed.TIA :silly:

[Surfingant]

Yep great idea, I'll sign it for sure, keep us posted.

[haines490slc]

Hi all,

What I need: suggestions on this idea, and what the letter should include. And if people are willing to support it, your full name and postcode to include with the letter. This can be sent by pm if you dont want to post it publicly.

What do you all think of the idea?

Cheers,

Nathan

I think this is a sensible idea,and agree with ellicats post

haines490slc quote:[love your work, I will sign it.]quote

seeming your signing the as yet unknown,would you also include you bank details with the necessary password in case postage is needed.TIA :silly:

having read posts by Nathan I have summed him up to be a fairly reasonable and intelligent fellow so trust that his considered response will be worthy of mine, and many others signature.

[nathanquigley]

Hi all,

What I need: suggestions on this idea, and what the letter should include. And if people are willing to support it, your full name and postcode to include with the letter. This can be sent by pm if you dont want to post it publicly.

What do you all think of the idea?

Cheers,

Nathan

I think this is a sensible idea,and agree with ellicats post

haines490slc quote:[love your work, I will sign it.]quote

seeming your signing the as yet unknown,would you also include you bank details with the necessary password in case postage is needed.TIA :silly:

having read posts by Nathan I have summed him up to be a fairly reasonable and intelligent fellow so trust that his considered response will be worthy of mine, and many others signature.

:blush: thanks mate, appreciate it.

besides, haha, what could i do with a name and a postcode?

'So sir, how would you like to pay for your new boat?'

'hmm... I've forgotten my amex...do you perchance accept name and postcode?'

[Gad]

Hi all,

What I need: suggestions on this idea, and what the letter should include. And if people are willing to support it, your full name and postcode to include with the letter. This can be sent by pm if you dont want to post it publicly.

What do you all think of the idea?

Cheers,

Nathan

I think this is a sensible idea,and agree with ellicats post

haines490slc quote:[love your work, I will sign it.]quote

seeming your signing the as yet unknown,would you also include you bank details with the necessary password in case postage is needed.TIA :silly:

having read posts by Nathan I have summed him up to be a fairly reasonable and intelligent fellow so trust that his considered response will be worthy of mine, and many others signature.

:blush: thanks mate, appreciate it.

besides, haha, what could i do with a name and a postcode?

'So sir, how would you like to pay for your new boat?'

'hmm... I've forgotten my amex...do you perchance accept name and postcode?'

[Gad]

Gad wrote:

[

seeming your signing the as yet unknown,would you also include you bank details with the necessary password in case postage is needed.TIA :silly:

having read posts by Nathan I have summed him up to be a fairly reasonable and intelligent fellow so trust that his considered response will be worthy of mine, and many others signature.

[crazywalrus]

Great Idea. I think we need a real grass roots action here as the current representation seems to be complacent and ineffective. Probably the big question is how do you effect change? I am not sure.

[coldy]

Love the idea......Put your letter up when done for all to see comment on and hopefully add their support. If I can help just drop me a line.

[kmcrosby78]

Nathan I will sign for sure mate. Would it be worth saying something along the lines of "instead of investing so much money creating more Green Zones it would be more prudent to protect fish stocks by employing more fisheries inspectors to enforce bag/size limits"?

Good luck, will keep checking this thread and help where I can.

Kelvin.

[nathanquigley]

Great Idea. I think we need a real grass roots action here as the current representation seems to be complacent and ineffective. Probably the big question is how do you effect change? I am not sure.

its a difficult question, but the best place i start i think is with a democratic process such as a letter backed with a petition of signatures. Here is an extract from a review of the petetionary process in QLD:

Standing Order 125 requires the Clerk to refer a copy of each petition received by the

House to the Minister responsible for the administration of the subject matter of the

petition (who may, in turn, refer the advice to another Minister for response.) The

Minister may forward a response to a petition; responses must be tabled, incorporated into

the official Record of Proceedings and published on the Parliament’s website.34

so if we submit a formal letter to the ministers and offices responsibly for the decisions ttwe are interested in, it, by legislative policy, must be considered by the minister and be officially recorded. Thats a good start. If that doesn't work, we have to garner more support, more signatures, and put increased pressure to the ministers.

Another exert-

Increasingly, Parliaments world-wide are using a range of information technologies,

including electronic petitioning, to seek to enhance dialogue with their citizens and

overcome disengagement with the political process.125

Queensland was the first Australian jurisdiction to introduce electronic (e-) petitioning (or

online petitioning).126

so the collection of details for support of this motion, which is being initially conducted here, is a recognised and legitimate method of petitioning the government over a greivance, or for a resolution of a specific problem.

cheers,

nate

[nathanquigley]

Nathan I will sign for sure mate. Would it be worth saying something along the lines of "instead of investing so much money creating more Green Zones it would be more prudent to protect fish stocks by employing more fisheries inspectors to enforce bag/size limits"?

Good luck, will keep checking this thread and help where I can.

Kelvin.

thanks Kelvin, all suggestions are welcome, I'll document them all and at some point put the points to the forums here and allow decide which should be included as most important. I'll draft these points into the letter from there. My inclination is to keep it realtivley simple and direct, not try to overthrow the whole system etc cause we'll need ALOT of signatures for that.

my suggestions

*More fisheries officers/personnel available for patrols

*Increase in severity of punishments for exceeding bag limits/sizes

*More signage at popular fishing spots

*Increased funding for the provision of safe, patrolled, public fishing areas everyone can enjoy

possibly, a consideration of a licensing system

cheers,

nate

[kmcrosby78]

Sounds good to me Nathan. All of those points you mentioned seem valid and at the crux of the issue.

Keep up the great work.

[madmullet]

Damm I didnt see thid post until now due to I am doing this on my phone now as I am not at my computer at work...good idea mate, if we work together on this it will be awsom....

[nathanquigley]

Damm I didnt see thid post until now due to I am doing this on my phone now as I am not at my computer at work...good idea mate, if we work together on this it will be awsom....

yeah mate, I'm certain you've set something good in motion here. we can only hope! :cheer:

if your docco can get some expsoure out ability to get signatures will increase exponentially, which would be awesome

[Doobsy]

I'm for licensing.

I'd be more than happy to pay $100 a year if it helped put more fisheries officers on the beat to enforce harsher penalties for wrong-doing.

[nathanquigley]

I'm for licensing.

I'd be more than happy to pay $100 a year if it helped put more fisheries officers on the beat to enforce harsher penalties for wrong-doing.

does anyone know how it worked out in NSW? where did the extra money go etc?

[robin]

Im happy to sign my name on this, but i wont be happy to pay for one of the few activities that i do that is free, and even tho $100 might not be alot, just think of the guys that have families, its going to cost them alot, plus ontop of that, fuel and power and what ever taxes is being added , i think if i had to pay $100 i might end up selling my gear, it will be sad but i cant see the sence in putting out that amount, fair enough paying to fish in dams, but they get stocked, so my money is doing something. I also think slapping a fee to fish will only encorage people to fish in new locations (lost worlds) were they are unlikley to be court.

[nathanquigley]

Im happy to sign my name on this, but i wont be happy to pay for one of the few activities that i do that is free, and even tho $100 might not be alot, just think of the guys that have families, its going to cost them alot, plus ontop of that, fuel and power and what ever taxes is being added , i think if i had to pay $100 i might end up selling my gear, it will be sad but i cant see the sence in putting out that amount, fair enough paying to fish in dams, but they get stocked, so my money is doing something. I also think slapping a fee to fish will only encorage people to fish in new locations (lost worlds) were they are unlikley to be court.

this i think is a major obstacle for the licensing idea: many people dont like the idea of paying to fish.

Robin, even if the money is put directly into fisheries, hiring more officers, fishing platforms etc, would you still find this disagreeable?

and if the fee was lower (say $30, like in NSW), would that impact your decision?

cheers,

nathan

[nathanquigley]

just found this- helpful in giving and idea of what revenue raised from a licensing fee might be used for

/>http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/fees

nate

[matjohnston]

Great idea Nathan - I'd be more than happy to sign.

We've been fishing regularly on the bay for the last 3 years and find it very disappointing that we have never seen fisheries out there in all that time. Like others on the site, I hate to see undersize fish being kept - if we want to fish in the future then we need to make sure it is done in a sustainable way.

It seems so silly that the government obviously recognises the importance of sustainable fisheries with the introduction of green zones, an increase in minimum size limits and the snapper closure, but then is not willing to put money and resources into enforcing these regulations. Unless there is a greater fisheries presence out there enforcing the rules then there will always be people who do the wrong thing and ruin it for every.one else.

It might also be worth getting some volunteers to hang around at the more popular boat ramps with the petition to get more signatures.

Thanks again for putting so much effort into this Nathan - Its great to see that there are so many people out there who are passionate about this.

Janice

[Doobsy]

I reckon $30 is paltry.

My thoughts are that now QLD's population is at a point that rec fishos are making a definite impact on stocks, we need stricter control.

For $2 a week, you can have a salt/fresh license or maybe $60pa for either salt or fresh and increase penalties.

Put the revenue and expenditure on the State Balance sheet and go from there.

I'm sick of doing the right thing whilst knowing that others are taking the pee-pee constantly.

[robin]

I think if its $30 per year per couple and kids under 16 free, then i would support the idea, as long as i can see were the money is going, i really dont want any more of my money paying for the pollies wages.

If they can use that money to increase patrols, restock the waters (im not sure if that is possible and not sure if that will increase sharks), education for the younger generation , so get them while in school, we all know that the younger will be older oneday and the more they know now the better.

Dont get me wrong, i have plenty of money, i just prefure to spend it on something that i can see results in.

$30 is not much to me and most people, but if they do that per person, i think my poor father would have been very poor 11people in my family x $30 is not cheap.

I guess if it goes to education that would be great, i remember when i was younger before knowing all of this, we used to fish up at bribey island and what we cought we kept, did not matter about size, now that part of bribey virtually has no fish left in it, so if i knew about what i know today back then, i would have put all of the undersize fish back.

[madmullet]

i am all for licensing, hense why i suggested it in on of my post in the sand pumping thread. i no this can open up a whole new bag of worms in decussions.

i have got my mother inlaw helping me do a you beaut letter to the local pollie in referance to illegal fishing ect.

one letter is good with signatures but many letters is better. ( refer to my new post p.m me ).

nate if you want to catch up and sit down and put our minds together p.m.

i wish you good luck.......

kurt

[The Mad Hughesy]

Great idea Nathan, I'll support it every step if the way.

How possible would 10,000 signatures be? We have alot of members on AFO. If every member who was willing to help the cause got as many people to sign a petition as possible I think we could do it. We could get friends, family, work collegues, knock on door to door, leave petitions at local bait& tackle shops etc to get the signatures.

I think once a letter is drafted we then try for the signatures on a petition.

Personally I think there would be alot of public support if we did things by the book.

I'd be willing to sit down at my local shops with a table and ask for signatures.

Where there is a will there is a way.

[The Mad Hughesy]

i have got my mother inlaw helping me do a you beaut letter to the local pollie in referance to illegal fishing ect.

I was justabout to say it would be great to get a bunch of local pollies to sign there names off

[Manni79]

My recommendation is that you stick to substantiated facts in your submission. Don't let emotional thoughts enter into it.

As I see it the core of the issue is the lack of enforcement and reaction times from those able to enforce, as well as a lack of indisputable and obvious signange at places that are well known to be hotspots for offenders.

I would stay away from stuff like "ruining the fishery" etc as that is unproven and probably unlikely as they haven't ruined the numbers over the long period they have been doing it. The same as netters. They keep coming back to spots because the fish keep coming back unabated.

+1

[rayke1938]

just found this- helpful in giving and idea of what revenue raised from a licensing fee might be used for

/>http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/fees

nate

I am in favor of a NSW style fishing trust but to my mind there are a few things that have to be clearly set out in the legislation for the introduction of the scheme.

The first and most important is that there must be no change to the monies already being allocated to present resources and this must be maintained for ever as a percentage of the budget rather than a fixed amount.

The NSW scheme would leave all the current stocking groups very short of funds with their dollar for dollar arrangement with a maximum of $4000 per group. As an example the PRFMA gets around $12 or $13k from the sip and raises around $30k via the boating access scheme and other means.

This would leave a $8k hole in the current stocking budget that is already unable to stock the dam to full capacity.

Other stocking groups that depend on only the SIP monies would have no chance of surviving as their only other source of revenue is chook raffles and maybe an annual comp.

Another area of concern is their policy of only Yellas to the west of the great devide and bass to the east and no mention of other species such as silvers and tandanas. I have heard whispers that Qld are currently thinking of policy changes along the same lines IE if it is not native to the current waters you will not be able to stock it.

The trust should not pay for any infrastructure such as jetties,boat ramps and fish cleaning tables that are currently the responsibility of local councils and state and federal government.

I believe that there possibly could be a benefit if there was a national licensing scheme that would eliminate confusion re bag and size limits in different states but in reality I cannot seeing the states agreeing to this.

Back to Nathans post.

I would see a real benefit if we could get up an E petition and try to get a politician to sponsor it.

In my opinion Dr Mark Robinson the opposition member for Cleveland would be the ideal person. He is the first polly since Tom Burns who has a genuine interest in fishing and its future.

Sorry for the disjointed ramble.

Cheers

Ray.

PS dont forget to read and study the link to the NSW fishing trust.

[nathanquigley]

just found this- helpful in giving and idea of what revenue raised from a licensing fee might be used for

/>http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/fees

nate

I am in favor of a NSW style fishing trust but to my mind there are a few things that have to be clearly set out in the legislation for the introduction of the scheme.

The first and most important is that there must be no change to the monies already being allocated to present resources and this must be maintained for ever as a percentage of the budget rather than a fixed amount.

The NSW scheme would leave all the current stocking groups very short of funds with their dollar for dollar arrangement with a maximum of $4000 per group. As an example the PRFMA gets around $12 or $13k from the sip and raises around $30k via the boating access scheme and other means.

This would leave a $8k hole in the current stocking budget that is already unable to stock the dam to full capacity.

Other stocking groups that depend on only the SIP monies would have no chance of surviving as their only other source of revenue is chook raffles and maybe an annual comp.

Another area of concern is their policy of only Yellas to the west of the great devide and bass to the east and no mention of other species such as silvers and tandanas. I have heard whispers that Qld are currently thinking of policy changes along the same lines IE if it is not native to the current waters you will not be able to stock it.

The trust should not pay for any infrastructure such as jetties,boat ramps and fish cleaning tables that are currently the responsibility of local councils and state and federal government.

I believe that there possibly could be a benefit if there was a national licensing scheme that would eliminate confusion re bag and size limits in different states but in reality I cannot seeing the states agreeing to this.

Back to Nathans post.

I would see a real benefit if we could get up an E petition and try to get a politician to sponsor it.

In my opinion Dr Mark Robinson the opposition member for Cleveland would be the ideal person. He is the first polly since Tom Burns who has a genuine interest in fishing and its future.

Sorry for the disjointed ramble.

Cheers

Ray.

PS dont forget to read and study the link to the NSW fishing trust.

thanks ray, thats good info and advice. perhaps the first person we'll contact when we have a firm idea of our goals will be Dr Robinson too see if he would like to sponsor the petition, having a political sponsor would be a great help

chris- thanks for support mate. the average petition submitted to the parliament has 1000 signatures so if we got 10,000that would be :woohoo:

[nathanquigley]

i am all for licensing, hense why i suggested it in on of my post in the sand pumping thread. i no this can open up a whole new bag of worms in decussions.

i have got my mother inlaw helping me do a you beaut letter to the local pollie in referance to illegal fishing ect.

one letter is good with signatures but many letters is better. ( refer to my new post p.m me ).

nate if you want to catch up and sit down and put our minds together p.m.

i wish you good luck.......

kurt

thanks kurt, sounds good. definately in favour of a catch up before the final draft, i'll be interested to see how your documentary is going. looking forward to the letter from you mother

nate

[crazywalrus]

hmmm looks like Ray got in with a lot of points I was going to raise. This is a great initiative. I do not want to be pessimistic here but I have signed a few petitions online and all i get is a spin letter telling me to suck eggs a few months later. Although I did not agree with the banning of the cattle exports however that got political support because it was exposed by 4corners. I know that we do not have those resources available to us. We have engaged the local rags and ABC radio before over the WBB but this did not gain any momentum. I think we need to utilize social media as much as possible and maybe a Facebook Page will help. My concern for this is that we do not want it to be high jacked by other people to promote their racial viewpoints. At the end of the day we are talking about laws not ethnicity here. If we where to do this can you manage the pages and control the comments?

Maybe get some action on the other forums and clubs around Australia? Get some representatives working there?

Just some ideas. Thanks Nathan and Kurt for starting this discussion. Also If you do not mind me asking what are you studying as you are very well written.

[crazywalrus]

also another point I would like to make. I know there are some phone apps in other states doing this but I think there needs to be a simple place for fisherman to access information. Currently we can access this on our phones via the QDPI website but it is not phone friendly. The Qld government needs to redevelop a portal to make this easier with a simple search function. I myself have given up a few times and rung people to find out the minimum length of a fish.

Also the discussion on the license. A person with a Family is not effected by this. The license requirements do not apply to people under 16. In NSW you can purchase a day and week pass if you feel you will not use the yearly pass. I personally do not think $30 is offensive for a yearly license fee. A fee of $100 is not offensive as well as there are many places where I already pay $100 to fish and boat. We are in a time of user pays and as such we need to be prepared to pay for facilities and services we enjoy. We do not think twice to pay for fishing gear and bait but balk at paying a license fee to help protect our fishery. that is funny logic in my opinion. Thanks Ted

[nathanquigley]

thanks Ted,

you've raised some good points there

One of the reasons I decided to write a letter with the input of the members here is so that we can formulate and critique something we are all happy with, and which presents the authorities we are calling on with direct and implementable solutions rather than just saying 'this is crap, fisheries need to do better, your ruining our waterways etc'. Ellicat made a good point to this effect.

In my opinion, a letter which encompasses the views of recreational fishermen interested in the preservation of our waterways, backed by the signatures of many people from the public and fishing bodies alike, would be a dangerous this for local parliament to ignore. It's one thing for a petition of grand or general proportions eg 'end the war in iraq now' to be ignored or passed over- these general and national topics generally require a huge amount of signatures and public support from many sectors. However, our goal is for relativley simple measures to be implemented at the local and state level, in aligment with the goals outlined by the National Steering Comittee for Recreation Fishing.

In regard to keeping the matter from being hijacked, I think the solution to that is to formulate the letter and petition to be factual, with specific requests and goals. When we then apply signatures to this petition and letter, there is no room for comment: either you agree with the letter/petition we have developed (or agree enough to support it) or you don't, and that is up to the indiviual.

The discussion and opinion sharing phase is for now. Once we have a petition and supporting letter which the majority agrees is acceptable, we will stand by it and collect signatures for it. If people don't like it, or if they want to change it in some manner, they are under no obligation to put their name to it. That way we prevent it from being a vehicle for people to express their own indiviual grievances.

As long as we present an assertive but respectful request, backed with community support from the sector affected, with clear goals backed with factual information, then I don't see why this cannot produce a positive response from the local goverment and authorities.

It's certainly a good measure as our first level of effort. If it fails to produce a response, we can look at our options at that point and move forward to increase pressure. Hopefully that won't be neccessary.

Remember, any e-petition submitted to local government is published on the parliamentary website for public persual. Therefore, if the government does not respond, they are doing so publicly.

cheers,

nate

[Damien2Rad]

Do you think it is a reasonable idea to include registrations of boats / cars of the offending people?

I've been planning some thing along these lines as I know of people regularly catching 60+ barra / salmon (threadie and blue) / black jew etc in set nets.

Also people keeping undersize barra. And people with 40l buckets full of dead live baits....

As far as I know there are six... SIX!! fisheries officers covering from down Gladstone way to up the Shoalwater bay (and beyond) area.

[nathanquigley]

Do you think it is a reasonable idea to include registrations of boats / cars of the offending people?

I've been planning some thing along these lines as I know of people regularly catching 60+ barra / salmon (threadie and blue) / black jew etc in set nets.

Also people keeping undersize barra. And people with 40l buckets full of dead live baits....

As far as I know there are six... SIX!! fisheries officers covering from down Gladstone way to up the Shoalwater bay (and beyond) area.

I know, its disgraceful. There is 11,000 police officers in Queensland, and 6 or 7 fisheries officers... no wonder so many people don't give a damn about keeping undersized fish or exceeding a bag limit.. what is their chance of being caught? 1 in 500?

Pretty good odds for them.