Help! how to stop 'wind' knots.

[fishyman]

hey again guys, sorry to post yet another semmingly silly question but this is really pissing me off to the point of giving up soft plastics.

whenever i go soft plastic fishing i use braided lines as everyone says the are the best for that application. to start off with i bought 6lb fireline as it was cheap and good from what ive heard. when i started fishing it was great casted a long way etc etc but these friggen knots started to occure when i cast making a huge mess and causing me to have to cut my new braid i just paid for off costing me a lot of money. after loosing about 50 metres of fireline in a day due to about 4 knots (people call them wind knots) i decided to do some research i found that other people have the same trouble with fireline so i went and bought 4lb FINS braid as i thought it might stop the knots. NOPE so far i have lost about 100 metres of it by having to cut the line when i cant get these damn knots out.

so my question is what causes this? i thought it might be loose wraps on the spool are geting picked up by the tighter wraps on top and when i go to cast it picks up the wraps below and sends them out from underneath causing a huge mess. or it could be my reel, it is only a 40 dollar job from mossops and maybe causing line twist and not winding line on evenly.

any other ideas on what this could be?

and the big question. how the hell do i stop this from happening as i have now spent around 70 buying two spools of braid and now need to buy two more as i have about 50 metres of each left.

any ideas or reccomendations from fellow anglers that have had this problem or have it would be appreciated.

i use it to flick plastics ranging from 1/6 ounce to 1/32 if that helps.

thanks in advance and lets hope i get this problem fixed otherwise i wont be allowed to buy braid anymore if i keep loosing it.

Tom

[MichaelJ]

it happens when the braid gets a lot of loose line all beside eachother and just gets tangled round itself

like when your casting into wind and it can go back on itself and make the knot

and have no idea how to stop it

[Fisher_90]

I have never had it happened maybe try holding the line tighter when winding it in.

[MichaelJ]

and i havnt had very much of it at all so it might be your reel

[Tim a]

What reel are you using? It happens more with smaller spools, I don't know why, but it does.

[STU]

Mate it happens to alot of people depends on casting into wind etc but I found it happened more with fireline so I use sunline pe braid and dont have half the amount of trouble I still use 4lb fireline crystal and have no trouble could be a bad batch of line or your just having some bad luck but it happens to the best of people.

[fishyman]

i have a shakespeare synergy 2000 i think its not a very good reel drag is shot im taking it apart at the moment to try and fix it.

i tend to fish downwind as i thought casting into wind might make it worse but i still get them. maybe i just have to do a cast and wind in tight every 5 casts or something to try and prevent it.

thanks for the help guys

[pinkey]

My guess is its your reel tom, i havnt had one knot with my fireline and ive had it for ages, my reel is quite a large reel for lures tho..

[Dan23]

mate, it sounds like a couple of things you need to watch. i used to have wind knots but now I get them very rarely by doing two things.

1. When you are winding you line on always always do it under tension. If you have heaps of slack for whatever reason run it back through your thumb and index finger slowly so you don't burn yourself. if there's only a little dip your rod tip in the water and that will create enough tension. You'll also improve your hook up rate dramatically if you are careful not too allow too much belly in your line. When you jig your rod tip always wind up the slack super fast as fish will often bite when you have that bit of slack and you won't set the hooks.

2. Always use your index finger on the edge of the spool to stop the line when it hits the water. Combined with a nice flat cast this all but eliminates that loopy big arch of line you can get. If you're plastic fishing you can release the line again to allow it to sink.

Just a few techniques that have almost eliminated wind knots for me. In the classic I cast my arm off for 2 days and only got one tiny knot that came out within 2 seconds.

[waldo]

Not being nasty but most things like this are operator error. These knots should be pronounced wined knots as in it's how you wind the line on your reel that causes the problem.

Combine that with some over exuberance in casting department and you have a very happy tackle shop owner.

I reckon dan23 gave you some great tips there to help stop any loose loops, and ease up on your casts if you are going hard and things will probably come good for you.

[Fisher_90]

I've heard of it more on 1000 size reels, I have 2 2000 size reels and have no problems.

[MichaelJ]

i use a 1000 size reel and have used same fireline for about 3 quarters or a year and only got a couple of them could be a bad bit of line

but not all 1000 size reels are bad lol

[fishyman]

i dont try to cast to the other side of the world its just i dont wind slack line under pressure so that must be it.

from now on ill hold the line aswell as the rod while im winding in my plastic waiting for the fish.

thankyou everyone for your advice especially Dan23, ill try those techniques when im in moretan next week.

thanks

tom

[kevinchen19870316]

get a baitcaster:P

just kidding.

i usually make a good long cast and wind the line back under constant tension( lures, the drag of water) every 20 or more casts depending on what lures i used. if i was using a popper, i might need to do it every 10 casts.

[obone]

Fishyman I would have a guess as to say it's something to do with the reel. When the line comes off the spool, does the guide follow where the line is in the spool, or does the guide only move when you are retrieving?

Also I used to get this a bit, but with practice I very rarely get them nowdays.

Joel

[faulked]

i get a lot when i over fill my spool it seems to like to be a little under filled i use a pfluger rod and reel and the hareder i cast the worse it gets if i just let the rod do the work i dont get them and brand of braid hasnt mattered ive knotted them all \"that ive tried \" my old glass rod with a big reel never got them but it had large breaid on it to maybe that makes the difference:)

[Cowfish13]

I'm not gloating in any way, but I have never had a single wind knot. I use an Okuma Travertine 30 with 6lb Fireline crystal and it never happens to me. I don't put on any extra pressure when winding in lures, but when using really light lures, every 10-15 casts, I like to wind it in as fast as I can

My guess is that it would just be your reel. Try getting a $100 one (mine costs $90 or so) and you should be right. Also, when you spool your reel up for the first time with new line, wind it on very tightly.

That should fix your problem:)

[blue_mako]

Most likely it's your reel combined with light jigheads. Line lay is a big thing and cheaper reels are pretty shotty when used with braid for lure casting. Have a look and see how even the line lay is.

Higher end Shimano reels have a nice and flat line lay which is no where near as wind knot proof as a top heavy line lay like Daiwa use.

An easy way to make your spool top heavy is to take a washer off the spool stem (There is usually a couple) and re-spool it like that.

You will find that lower end reels will be a bit all over the place with line lay which means you won't get as smooth casting.

Wind knots are all about the size and speed of the loops coming off the spool. A smaller spool like a 1000 size is always going to get far more wind knots then a larger size. When you cast a 1000 size reel line wants to come off far quicker then say a 2000 size.

A loose loop under the line coming off can get caught in the line coming off the spool. The line coming off the spool then pulls that loose loop from underneath to the top. Depending on how far under that loose loop is, it will either tangle at the spool with what looks like 3 strands of braid all coming off the spool at once. Or a knot in the line when you cast.

Combine loose loops with the line coming off rapidly and larger loops then you're going to have all sorts of trouble.

Light soft plastics rigged on jigheads under 1/20th oz. are going to give you a far greater amount of retrieved slack then say a 1/6 oz. A lot of people like to have about 5-10 casts then flick it out and pull off line so that you have more then a casting distance of braid out. Then wind it back on tightly with their fingers.

The new spool lip that Shimano have put on there spools (Daiwa has used it for years) reduces the size of loops coming off the spool. It doesn't force line out and away from the spool on the cast as much as a right angled spool lip would. That makes the chances of wind knots much smaller.

If you compare a 4000 Daiwa Tierra to a 4000 Shimano Stradic, you will see that they retrieve roughly the same amount of line, but Daiwa has a slower gear ratio with a larger spool and Shimano has a faster gear ratio with a smaller spool. The same amount of line may come off if you casted both reels side by side but you will see the Tierra will have line coming off much slower then the Shimano which will reduce wind knots.

I would suggest a Daiwa Exceler 2000. You can pick them up for under $100 AUD delivered to your door in 6-10 business days off ebay and it would help out with trouble free fishing for sure. I have seen them in action and for a low end reel they are tops.

Here's a link to one if you are interested, http://cgi.ebay.com/Daiwa-Exceler-2000-New-in-Box-Great-Buy_W0QQitemZ220154152092QQihZ012QQcategoryZ36147QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Troy

[Dan23]

Good tips Troy. But are you going for Daiwa sponsorship?:laugh:

My Twin Power comes with small washers you can use to adjust the loading of the line.

I just left it neutral for now. The spool apparently lays line for better casting by using the worm drive to lay more line on the up stroke then the down if that makes sense. I think that's why it's called a twin power. When I try it out in a couple of weeks I'll let everyone know if it works well. I've loaded it with 6lb Daiwa TD Sensor Braid so hopefully I won't have any problems. If I do I can pretty much put it down to user error.

[kevinchen19870316]

ha ha ha ha

[blue_mako]

No not sponsorship. Just replying through experience. I have used and owned high end Shimano reels. Stella 1000, Aspire 1000, Aspire 2500 as well as the mid range Stradic 1000, Stradic 4000 and Symetre 1500. The Stellas gearing was rooted after a couple of months, the Aspire 1000 and Stradic 1000 were 'wind knot specials', the Stradic 4000 I can't have spooled to a normal capacity because when casting slugs I get a wind knot. Out of all of those I'd have to say the Symetre 1500 was the better all round performer. I thrashed it and it was still a good reel. Sold it to Tim and I think he eventually buggered it.

I have sold them all except the Stradic 4000, which I wouldn't mind swapping for an Exceler 4000. I bought a Daiwa SOL 2000 and 2 Certate Finesse Custom 2004's. Gotta say I've had very few tangles or wind knots since buying them. I watched Ando get 5 or 6 yesterday on his Twinpower 1000 for my SOL's 0.

The 'worm drive' you're talking about is 2 speed oscillation. It's when you are winding the spool moves up slowly to get an even line lay, then once it starts to retreat downwards it speeds up to double the speed to get back down to the bottom of the spool. So only a small amount of line is laid downwards and most laid while the spool is moving up. Taking out a washer out to fill the spool so it's top heavy with a two speed oscillating reel makes the lay lay a bit dodgey apparently.

Have fun with the PE, I've had 4 or 5 spools of the stuff and can't stand the random breakages. Especially in the lighter strengths. Just because it's expensive doesn't mean it's awesome. It's only good if you're going for a record and need an IGFA rated line. Throw it out and buy 3 spools of Fireline .

Troy

[Dan23]

Damn,

I should have talked to you a week ago Troy.

Oh well, I'll see how I go.

[Stinger]

Tom

While the spool shape does have a bearing on how well the line feeds out it is not the only facter to wind knots.

I use Pfluger reels with 4lb and 6lb crystal fireline.

Don,t remember ever having had a knot in any of them.

My son uses shimano reels and not cheap ones at that as well as a more expensive line but he gets the odd knot.

It maybe a combination of things but I don,t think its a reel problem but more likely to do with the line.

I think loose or twisted line would be a main contributor to wind knots.

If you are fishing from a boat try going for a run and let a fair bit of the line out with a bit of weight on it then wind it back under a bit of pressure. This will eliminate loose line on the spool as well as it may reduce the amount of twist in it.

This is what I do when my line starts to get a bit loose or twisted and it seems to work for me.

[reef_raider]

actually my reel is a daiwa tierra dad but yeh the shimano ones we have seem to get a lot of wind knots and with my tierra i get a lot with yamatoya braid... probably 5 or more a session, and its not fun have to cut off $10 worth of line

[kevinchen19870316]

pooooooooor shimano. ha ha

though preventing wind knots is not the only thing high end spinning reels r built for. there's r guys who love stellas and cannot stand steezs and there r guys who only use certates and say stellas r shit.

my PE never break anywhere but the knots though it's been through rocks and branches a few times. and my fireline seldom break at knots even when they r used only 10 times or less. ebay ones r another story though.

[blue_mako]

What lb is the PE you use Kevin? All mine has been between 6 and 10lb. I have heard similar stories with light PE.

Troy

[fishyman]

well thanks for all the tips guys hopefully i might be getting a new reel this weekend, possibly a SOL

ill talk to the guy at tackleworld when i go hopefully my dad has time to take me.

[kevinchen19870316]

troy, get a PE the same diameter as ur 2lb fireline. try them on the scales for 100 times and u'll see which one performs better.

u cannot say fireline breaks easily when compared to a nylon 6 times thicker. right?

[fishyman]

hey question for all u guys out there. what is the best braid?

maybe for like 1-6lb's

7-15lb

and 15 and over

[kevinchen19870316]

depending on application. some r more abbrasive resistant, some casts better, some have incredible strength and some r extra sensitive. get an expensive JP domestic braid for ur specific application and u r at least close.

[fishyman]

what you would you reccomend kevin for say about 8-12lb for fishing around wrecks. specifically the tangalooma wrecks

[kevinchen19870316]

the only JP based PE i have used r varivas avani seabass pe and avani casting PE. the seabass's tougher than the casting so that'll be my choice

[Feral]

I can honestly say I have never had one. Had a few baitcaster snarls when my fat thumb has been to slow but thats about it. Maybe its coz I learned on Alveys, never wind a line in without tension on it is the first lesson learnt!

[Fisher_90]

I hate winding braid under tension, End up with cuts on your fingers, I would think its your reel tho fishyman.

[Feral]

Man it up fisher_90, you got girls hands or what?

[Fisher_90]

Hahaha nah it just starts hurtin once u done a heap of casts

[blue_mako]

kevinchen19870316 wrote:

troy, get a PE the same diameter as ur 2lb fireline. try them on the scales for 100 times and u'll see which one performs better.

u cannot say fireline breaks easily when compared to a nylon 6 times thicker. right?

I don't get what you are trying to say Kevin. I know 2lb Fireline breaks at around 5lb. If you got a bit of PE and tested it, it would be fine. I mean in the lighter spools it begins to wear out very quickly and easily because of it's thin IGFA dia. Just from general use like guide wraps, rocks, sticks, etc. So when you go to bust it off on snags and the like, it breaks up the line and not at the leader knot.

You mentioned Avani Seabass... That's where all my PE troubles started!

When you think about it, you could buy roughly 3 125yd Fireline Spools to 1 150m PE spool. I will admit, Fireline wears out quickly on BC and is a bit too stiff for smooth casting. That's where I use spectra like Fins or Tuff Line . Tuff Line I will use more then Fins as it's made by the same company and has the same structure and colour, just a different name and Fins is more expensive .

Troy

[Feral]

Troy and Kevin - what language you blokes using?

[Dinodadog]

The heading is wind knots, it should be loose knots. I don't think it has anything to do with the price or the brand of reel [i have both brands].

Feral is right in what he was saying, in that it's all to do with tension. When you make a cast and a retreive under the same tension it should be ok. But when you retreive and catch a fish or a snag or even some weed, then you have different tensions on your spool. On your next cast the tight line goes out and when it gets to where the loose line is, the loose line tries to beat the other line off the spool.

I get caught sometimes when slow rolling s/baits or sp's then catch a fish and the tight line cuts into the loose line.

Wind knots is with your b/caster when you cast into the wind and don't use your thumb properly.

Have a think about that lot

Dino

[Dan23]

Dinodadog wrote:

The heading is wind knots, it should be loose knots. I don't think it has anything to do with the price or the brand of reel [i have both brands].

Feral is right in what he was saying, in that it's all to do with tension. When you make a cast and a retreive under the same tension it should be ok. But when you retreive and catch a fish or a snag or even some weed, then you have different tensions on your spool. On your next cast the tight line goes out and when it gets to where the loose line is, the loose line tries to beat the other line off the spool.

I get caught sometimes when slow rolling s/baits or sp's then catch a fish and the tight line cuts into the loose line.

Wind knots is with your b/caster when you cast into the wind and don't use your thumb properly.

Have a think about that lot

Dino

I get what you're saying Dino.

I think people call them wind knots because you usually get them when it's windy because you get so much slack line and are trying harder to cast.