Earth Hour./ Did you Have Your Say Hour

[fids4ld]

oooh did see that coming His got you cooked now.

[Bommie]

Loving thy neighbour and overpopulating are not sustainable,CO2 and sustainable populating is.

Totally agree Gad, just that in the real world there is 7 billion people. Unless ur going to slay a lot of people to reduce the population, we are going to have to use our resources sparingly.

gad said "The bottom line is come the end of Earth Hour, you have actually used more power by turning it off, and then turning it back on, than if you had left the lights/appliances on, and have achieved nothing, except to give yourself a warm fuzzy inner feeling."

keep telling ur self that mate and keep ur fuzzy feeling happening in ur pants. Its miss information like that that leads easily controlled minds astray. Did u read that in your courier mail? Have u got one of those smart meters? Try having a look at that next time, I think ur getting confused between turning off and back on again a fluro light in like 30seconds - 15 minutes instead of one hour. When u say that most of what you were taught back in the day is now proven wrong. Id be more inclined to say that some of it would have been, MOST is a bit of a stretch.
/>http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/lighting_daylighting/index.cfm/mytopic=12280

It took you a while to read the whole thread gad, finally you found the dinosaur post, I also explained why i used the term dinosaur. Like i have said which im sure u have read by now, the world was flat once and the earth the center of the universe. Science has also made possible that pc your using right now. It has also given us other cleaner ways to use and create energy. Why not evolve, like the cave man that lived with dinosaurs like bommie said existed.

Come 9:30 most people would be in bed or have most of their lights turned off already, fridges were kept on etc so the spike your talking about would be negligible.

Bommie mate dont kid yourself

hears a quote from a source

"It is obvious that the goal set by world leaders at an Earth Summit in 2002, namely a "significant reduction" by 2010 in the rate of species losses, will not be achieved. "We are indeed experiencing the greatest wave of extinctions since the disappearance of the dinosaurs," said Ahmed Djoghlaf, head of the U.N. Convention on Biological Diversity. "Extinction rates are rising by a factor of up to 1,000 above natural rates. Every hour, three species disappear. Every day, up to 150 species are lost. Every year, between 18,000 and 55,000 species become extinct. The cause: human activities.", he said."

The guy that said this is this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Djoghlaf

at the end of the day, we are never going to agree. People have to believe what they want to so they can get on with life. Our attitudes will evolve over time one way or another.

'Ahmed Djoghlaf, head of the U.N. Convention on Biological Diversity".

Well there is your problem and misinformation right there in that sentence.

and the rest well meh, I'll go back to pondering where the end of the earth ends, and by the way your opening line in your first post does refer to members on here as dinosaurs in there way of thinking no matter how it is read.

[Bommie]

oooh did see that coming His got you cooked now.

no I would say he has cooked himself

[Gad]

7 billion people hey, Auscare,etc and the Un should be sending out contraceptives and running sterilisation clinics instead of food packages, but I suppose they wont,so we just have to wait until Iran,Nth Korea or some other ratbag government decides to start the nuclear holocaust.

I had already read the whole thread,it`s just that I got bored this arvo and thought I would do a bit of keyboard fishing.

Most people in bed by 9.30?? do they also roll the footpaths up out your way?

Now you can not have it both ways,there is either a spike or no spike, it is like saying the missus is a bit pregnant.

Any way a question,if the ‘Global Warming†that Earth is experiencing is man caused.

What is causing the warming (like Earths`) that is also occuring on Jupiter,Pluto, and Mars as well as Neptunes moon Triton, scientists are scratching their heads over what could possibly be in common with the warming of all these planets …

What could there be in common, with all the planets in our solar system that is causing them all to warm at the same time?

One thing I do know, the common denominator, is Not Man.

[haines490slc]

Nitris, don't argue with idiots mate, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

[Bommie]

love that line, I use it regularly

[Bommie]

by the way the ABC answers to what government that is in power at the time,

[planetfonz]

i refer everyone back to the Dalek Relaxation tape

[tobesone]

better go see the reef now b4 can do dredges it for more ports closer to our resources

and the coal seam mines pollute our fishing spots so we can't enjoy the wonderful tasty fish we so love to eat, but i suppose that is getting off track a little

[tobesone]

but really lets all go throw a line in, dinosaurs included

[Bommie]

welcome to the site tobesone hope you enjoy

[tobesone]

thanks buddy I already am

[Bommie]

good to hear

[aussie123]

What ever happened to El Nino and La Nina that has been the world standard for measuring drought and rain events for decades now all around the globe.

This seems to have been swept under the carpet and never talked about now by both the Climate Change scientists and the Government.

Today its all Global Warming,CO2 and new Taxes to explain the various seasonal events.

Also how can they come to the conclusions that the earth is so many degrees warmer right down to so many decimal places compared to 100 years ago and more when the technology to measure the temperature to such a tiny fraction of a degree has only been around for a very short time now.

At least if the oceans warm up a degree or 2 the Great Barrier Reef will blossom,more coral,more food,more fishies.

[Nitris]

Gad said "overpopulating are not sustainable,CO2 and sustainable populating is"

he also said "Auscare,etc and the Un should be sending out contraceptives and running sterilisation clinics instead of food packages"

Gad mate those statements seem to me like socialism, when you vote for your mate Abbot at the next election just remember who he is and what he stands for. He is against abortion among other things. The funny thing is the guy u keep bad mouthing our beloved Bob Brown is the leader of the socialist party in Australia. :ohmy:

gad also said "Now you can not have it both ways,there is either a spike or no spike, it is like saying the missus is a bit pregnant."

Mate anyone with an understanding of the electrical industry will find that laughable. eg. when I test an installation, and for you I'm doing this very black and white. you are allowed to have a max voltage drop of plus or minus 5%...... that does not hurt anything. Now imagine if lightning hits the transformer out side your house.. what do u think will happen? I will give you a hint the transformer will not be pregnant.

[Nitris]

Nitris, don't argue with idiots mate, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Haines I don't think you could have put it any better. I will take your advice so I don't turn into one of those "special people" you were talking about.

end communication

[Bagless]

Interesting topic this one, I’ve been ignoring it for however long it’s been floating around for, (didn’t like the title if I’m honest) but finally got sucked into reading it today since it reached 3 pages . A lot to read through and I can feel the passion from both sides, some interesting points. But ultimately I can’t help but feel infuriated by the complete and utter ignorance of some members. I can’t say I’m a scientist or particularly well educated in the details of ‘accelerated’ climate change. However 2 facts blow every other opinion out of the water.

1: The climate ‘IS’ changing in an accelerated manner never previously recorded in the planets history (co-incidentally about the same time Man got burning fossil fuels).

2: We are voraciously consuming limited and irreplaceable resources at an exponential rate.

How anyone can say the climate is changing in a perfectly natural fashion and that humanity has made no/little impact to the health of the planet in the last 2 centuries is deluded. Sorry, I can appreciate this is rather inconvenient for many of us and I do love the sound of a v8 and having a big TV. And I don’t know what the solution is (surprisingly), but by turning your lights off for an hour to remind people to be more aware/conscious and considerate to their tiny foot print on the planet ‘IS’ a just cause. The fact that there are people out there who are trying to make a difference (no matter how small) is a huge relief as it suggests there might be a way out of this unsustainable and unpredictable cycle we have ourselves in. If everyone chips in a bit, every little is going to help, so pick up your act if you haven’t done so already.

Kudos to Nitris for eloquently bothering to try and educate.

And Kudos to planetfonz for posting the Dalek video… I haven't laughed that hard in a while .

[planetfonz]

everyone can learn from those wacky robot aliens!

[JarrydA]

However 2 facts blow every other opinion out of the water. 1/ The climate ‘IS’ changing in an accelerated manner never previously recorded in the planets history (co-incidentally about the same time Man got burning fossil fuels).

Bagless, i do agree with alot of what your saying. But i would like to just point out that you, yourself stated a point that your arguing against. Yes, facts in our planets recorded history state that it is changing. But there is no way that you can state, as 100% fact, that what is happening now, has never happened before.

[Bagless]

However 2 facts blow every other opinion out of the water. 1/ The climate ‘IS’ changing in an accelerated manner never previously recorded in the planets history (co-incidentally about the same time Man got burning fossil fuels).

Bagless, i do agree with alot of what your saying. But i would like to just point out that you, yourself stated a point that your arguing against. Yes, facts in our planets recorded history state that it is changing. But there is no way that you can state, as 100% fact, that what is happening now, has never happened before.

Sorry, did you say the facts in our planets history prove that the sudden climate change (that coincides with large scale fossil fuel consumption) isn't 100% fact because the history shows it's never happened before?

[JarrydA]

However 2 facts blow every other opinion out of the water. 1/ The climate ‘IS’ changing in an accelerated manner never previously recorded in the planets history (co-incidentally about the same time Man got burning fossil fuels).

Bagless, i do agree with alot of what your saying. But i would like to just point out that you, yourself stated a point that your arguing against. Yes, facts in our planets recorded history state that it is changing. But there is no way that you can state, as 100% fact, that what is happening now, has never happened before.

Sorry, did you say the facts in our planets history prove that the sudden climate change (that coincides with large scale fossil fuel consumption) isn't 100% fact because the history shows it's never happened before?

Im not saying that at all, im purely stating that its not "Delusional" to believe that it could have happened before.

[ellicat]

I'm sure there are many deluded people and over-alarmed people.

I haven't spent the time to catch up with this whole thread yet, but it seems indicative of the general social emotion. I know I will want to have a say too when I've read it all.

In the meantime please remember to accept your opinion is not the same as everyone else. Everyone is wrong and/or right depending on the opinion of the reader. AFO has its site terms of use to keep the place happy. No personal attacks or name calling are allowed. I've noticed a bit of this but haven't acted yet before understanding the full context.

For the GBR doomsayers I have been requested to reproduce this article. Followers of The Greens lies misrepresentations and mistruths should do themselves a favour and read it entirely (i.e. from start to finish) with an open mind.

Happy Easter

Starck-17-1.pdf

[rayke1938]

And here I am thinking it was all caused by the depletion of the ozone layer.

I also thought that the depletion of the ozone layer was caused by all the dinosaurs using VO5 hair spray instead of Brylcreem ( I was going to say Queen Macassar but no one would know what it is.)

Cheers

Ray

[Bommie]

Macassar oil, your not that old Ray

[Bagless]

Sorry, deluded might be a bit strong on a public forum. Also exponential might be a tad exaggerated in regard to resource consumption … but I was tipped over the boiling point with peoples comments (varying from climate change being a natural cycle that we have had little/no influence on, to rather more scarily some interplanetary phenomenon that is beyond our comprehension).

Also my apologies to Jarryd for my smarmy response, but I really think I made it clear what I was implying and is it really worthwhile to make out that I’m contradicting my argument? If there was ever an equally sudden change in the Earth’s climate I suspect it was due to a meteorite or massive volcano wreaking havoc on the atmospheric balance. Please don’t tell me you think it happens suddenly by coincidence or some oscillation in the Earth’s magnetic field?

Without having time to ‘Google’ quotes, stats and ‘facts’ or read scientific papers that say things aren’t as bad as they’re made out (which I hope is true), I dare say this is far more complicated than most people on this forum can comprehend. The attitude of ‘don’t worry she’ll be right tomorrow’ really isn’t going to help anyone but a few gullible people sleep slightly better at night. Leave the lights on, drive down to the corner shop to get the paper, throw your recycling in the land fill, do whatever’s easy and convenient because you’ve earnt the right. Or stop for a moment and think ‘I can make a difference’, no matter how small it is in the greater scheme of things.

Is the barrier reef as healthy as it was 50 years ago? Are polar bears hamming it up so they can end up with a free meal down the zoo?

The most basic logic I can apply to this is as follows. In order to create energy you generally speaking will create a by- product. In the case of fossil fuels this is mostly going to be carbon dioxide. Now as to whether you think this effects the climate or not really isn’t all that important. The fact is we’re introducing an unnatural level of this gas to what was otherwise a perfectly balanced/functional eco-system. Regardless of what you think happens with said carbon dioxide, we are changing the composition of our atmosphere/ecosystem. Is this bad? Well I’d be inclined to say more than likely yes. Does people being aware of the consequences and making small efforts to reduce their footprint help? Well it certainly isn’t going to do anymore harm. It’s not about who’s right or wrong, it’s acting as a community to be aware that there isn’t (yet) a free ticket for energy consumption. There are consequences for your actions. I’ll finish there as I’ve had more than my 2cents worth and I’d better get back to staring at the ‘puter to earn my keep…. Where did it all go wrong

[Gad]

Edit, sorry, I mistakenly editted out/cut the original instead of just adding onto the piece I wanted to quote

In our younger dinosaur age,at schools, they did teach science subjects, funny thing though, many of those (at that time) scientific facts (theories)eg: in biology, geology, astronomy,etc have since been proven incorrect.

Ok, I see, re-read my post, I blanketed as a whole..

The basic accepted cores(cornerstones of the sciences) have held and have been added to as technology has advanced, back in my dinosaurs time with bare bone basics of science being taught at school, (compared to the wealth of knowledge/facts,theories accepted,or rejected today, with an added 60-70 years of research, with advancing technology) and newer ‘break throughs’ in science 10-20 yrs old and/or still being accepted, and some rejected, most of what was theorised and/or hypothesised on (and some that had been accepted) and put out in a science class room was often inconclusive,yet to be confirmed/verified peer reviewed accepted, and/or not totally correct.

[fishingnut]

image removed

[Bommie]

that is where you are so wrong and as you say gullible Bagless, in thinking that anyone replying to this thread would have the attitude of ‘don’t worry she’ll be right tomorrow',

grow up I think we are all past that stage well and truly

[Gad]

Mate anyone with an understanding of the electrical industry will find that laughable. eg. when I test an installation, and for you I'm doing this very black and white. you are allowed to have a max voltage drop of plus or minus 5%...... that does not hurt anything. Now imagine if lightning hits the transformer out side your house.. what do u think will happen? I will give you a hint the transformer will not be pregnant.

thank you for drawing me a black and white picture..I`ll keep it on hand

being from the generation of waste not,want not, I`m glad that a +5/-5 on a world wide scale = nothing

[Bagless]

You're right bommie you never did say "she'll be right tomorrow" so I guess you're exempt from that statement.

However you did say;

"and yes I had the amps going lights on like usual, after all we have evolved so we don't have to live in the dark, literally or not"

Obviously showing your concern for the subject.

Then you went on to say;

"I have a son and I want to have grandchildren that can enjoy our outdoors, but I don't believe all the hype that gets around, common sense is the key not enviroMENTALists extremists, that lie to achieve their goals"

A bunch of lies and hype eh? No truth to it whatsoever. As you say they must just want to make money out of green energy. Nothing to do with trying to educate people that when you use electricity you are creating pollution.

Then you mention;

"climate change, warming and cooling has been happening since the earth began".

So current climate change is nothing to worry about then?

Sorry if I've taken you out of context. Appreciate you don't like people copying and pasting parts of your post to highlight their points. If you are indeed sincere that I've misinterpreted what you wrote then I guess you must be a bit of an eco warrior at heart?

And changing the subject to fishingNuts post. Making a joke about a child with down syndrome to make a point about futility of sharing opinions on a forum is really quite offensive. In fact it's plane offensive to use it in any context of derogatory humor. And it wasn't particularly funny when it was first used 10 years ago.

Finally not sure how I'm gullible.. but I guess I'm going to find out?

[Bommie]

yep Bagless you have got me figured out right, well done, took you a while though for someone as smart as you

[Bagless]

Really have no intention of figuring you out and certainly don't feel smart. Unless of course you're using my old friend sarcasm .

Ultimately I respect you have strong beliefs about the future of our shared home. I also have to thank you for helping me get fired up about something that actually has some meaning.. provoking me to think more about why we do what we do. Certainly more important than my regular 'day to day' means to an end. Feels good to be alive

[Seiran]

Per capita, Australia is the worlds worst polluter.

[ellicat]

Per capita, Australia is the worlds worst polluter.

In the whole Global warming discussion/debate/argument the Per Capita argument is the most spurious piece of crap ever stated or relied upon as argument. It is completely irrelevant to the argument. It is foolish.

If Queen Bob was lost on a deserted island (I wish) and there were two trees and he chopped down one to build his shelter and then had to use the other for fire to be warm and to signal to passing Rainbow Warrior vessels looking to interfere with another nations culture then he would have the World's worst emissions per capita by a massively huge margin.

The statement is wrong in any case. Australia comes (on a per capita basis) as 5th or around 15th depending on which 'reliable' report you read.

[ellicat]

Here's a graph showing Aus at 7th.

It can be noticed that there are a few countries missing from this production though

[Binder4]

Earth hour was good, ran every light in the house, had the stove running on a nice roast, washing machine running and put a pile of hot ones in the fridge for later.

Some tosser "change manager" at work, who writes little stories on such things, Director push bikes I think he is, to go in the daily messages from those who must be obeyed - suggested we should use alternate transport for the week as well, just to really show our level of concern. What a great idea I thought, so in stead of catching the bus I ran the V8, and with gas being expensive at the moment, used petrol to boot.

Made me feel good to be able demonstrate my opinion of the global warming chicken littles.

[bootyinblue]

All very valid points in this discussion so far......Not!

I find it hard to accept comparisons between 'then' and 'now' in respect to the oceans acidity, the atmospheres c02 levels etc when there is no way of collecting reliable data from 100, 200, 500 or 1000 years ago.

It's all just a scare mongering campaign driven by the Government to pander to the green vote and pick up some extra revenue in trading is something that is not even tangible.

I also like to think I am not a dinosaur yet, but I am old enough to know that not every word finishes in a Z, so I guess that puts me somewhere in the middle.

[Bommie]

Per capita, Australia is the worlds worst polluter.

Unrealistic Statistic, triple j like to use it all the time,

just like the old classic lie that "Australia is the only country that eats it's coat of arms/nation's symbol", there are over 20 countries that do,

or you are more likely to get hit by a train than eaten by a shark,,,, what if you are a abalone diver or you live in india right on the railway line

[AFO]

Hi Everyone,

Whilst this is a very interesting and important topic to discuss, we must ensure it is done in a friendly manner. We all need to remember not everyone is going to have the same views and so we need to understand that no matter how much we drive the point home on this site it will not change other people's opinions. If the world's top leaders and scientists cannot agree on the matter we can guarantee members of this site will not either.

So by all means have a discussion and talk about the different options but do not make it personal and do not make remarks that will insult or offend. The last thing we want is for members on this site to feel animosity towards each other and worse, make us spend time moderating the forum over our Easter break.