Earth Hour./ Did you Have Your Say Hour

[Gad]

Did YOU help your fellow man and Planet Earth last night.

At 8:30pm last night,did you keep your lights,TVs PCs,and fridges on,and send out a strong, but silent message for the world,to Bob Brown and all the rabid green movements spread around the world,who wanted us to be in the Dark.

Early man lived in the dark, shivering and living out a food scarce existence, trying to survive the last ‘Ice Age’ (that`s the last ‘Ice Age, not the first, not the second, or even the third ‘Ice Age’, but the 'last' Ice Age.)

Back in the times of dark, man was listening to the drips of the melting ice of the last‘Ice Age’, waiting for the next cycle of reheating of the earth and the bone warming warmth of a closer orbit to the the Sun.

Today some still want us to listen to'the drips’… Bob Brown and the rabid green groups.

[aussie123]

I turned on over 30 fish tank heaters yesterday arvo so they didn't save as much as they hoped,lol

[dhess]

I was at a wedding reception in a CBD hotel that observed earth hour.

It proved to be a real blessing, as their were a few brides maids that looked like they had missed their migration back to Antarctica for the summer.

[thousandyards]

i burned tyres and lit floodlights to celebrate......splending

[rayke1938]

C

R

A

P

Cheers

Ray

Someone should have turned off Bob Brown

That would really save the planet.

[Nitris]

Wow we have got some serious dinosaurs on this forum. I wonder if those that have not grown up with science have learned to use roundabouts properly as they would not have been around when they got their license. Shame we all can't learn from our actions. Each to their own though.

Earth hour is about awareness, do you even consider how electricity is made? Or how coal is made? It's all good as when the next mass extinction happens that will be the start or more coal.

[Bommie]

your a funny man, mass extinction,

is electricity only produced from coal

and calling people dinosaurs and insinuating they can't drive through roundabouts on the forum is proof of who is the stupid one

another brainwashed citizen

[Bommie]

and yes I had the amps going lights on like usual, after all we have evolved so we don't have to live in the dark, literally or not

[Luc53]

Turned on all my lights and had a barbie!!

This earth hour like global warning and the carbon thing is an absolute load of manure.

As far a "not growing up with science", there is more and more science showing that earth hour, global warning and the carbon thing is an absolute load of manure.

It's got to the stage that big bad CO2 is like a religion and if anyone says something against it, you're automatically labelled a heretic.

[Nitris]

I was trying to say, I'm sure they have learned to use roundabouts, but have not been able to evolve their thinking on other issues as time has gone by.

The term Dinosaurs, was due to the tale about cave man etc. In saying that dinosaurs were not around when the cave ppl existed.

funny how certain people can shoot their mouth off on this forum about certain topics, but when someone else says something against them they get shot down by others.

coal is the primary way electricity is made on earth by far. coal is made when plant matter is covered before it can decompose, ie atmosphere changes to high methane or co2, when there is no oxygen stuff can't break down, and is then covered by sedimentary processes over time. same as metal not rusting without air.

[Nitris]

I don't even have kids yet but I'm already thinking about my grand kids

[Bommie]

there is proof that early man did exist in that time and it has upset a lot of academics,

we all know how coal is formed, the filtration in the chimney stacks at the power plants are that strong that it puts out minimal pollution compared to other western coal burning countries

not everything written is fact, dollars play the biggest part in what we hear and read,

I have a son and I want to have grandchildren that can enjoy our outdoors, but I don't believe all the hype that gets around, common sense is the key not enviroMENTALists extremists, that lie to achieve their goals

[haines490slc]

not everything written is fact, dollars play the biggest part in what we hear and read,

that lie to achieve their goals

of course big business is just paying for a lot of the anti climate change research and advertising because they simply care for us so much they think it should be done as a community service, no vested interests at all. :whistle:

[Bommie]

chopping up my post and only quoting what you feel you need and taking my comments out of context to represent the opposite of what I had said, you should represent the green party, peta, greenpeace or become a journalist

big businesses have interests in "green energy" so what is that point

do a bit of research on earth hour, people making big dollars out of it

[Nitris]

Just for arguments sake if the filters on the stacks are so good. Why are they changing most of our power plants to gas? Also why were they looking at making clean coal tech?

I totally agree with u on the media census thing. There is no free media in this country.

So those other so called nations burning dirty coal without filters, who sells them this poor low grade coal?

Once apon a time the world was flat and the earth was the center of the universe, was it the government brainwashing that made us think otherwise?

In the end everyone has to make up their own mind on what they want to believe. Even if global warming was not "real" we are using finite resources to make energy, don't you agree that we may as well start getting our stuff together on finding other more suitable ways to get energy?

In no way am I having a go at anyone in particular. Plz don't take it that way if so.

[Bommie]

climate change, warming and cooling has been happening since the earth began

the filtration is part of clean coal technology, and who does sell the crappy low grade coal? Not us.

"Two forms of coal are mined in Australia, depending on the region: high-quality black coal and lower-quality brown coal.

Black coal is found in Queensland and New South Wales, and is used for both domestic power generation and for export overseas. It is generally mined underground before being transported by rail to power stations, or export shipping terminals. Black coal was also once exported to other Australian states for power generation and industrial boilers.

Brown coal is found in Victoria and South Australia, and is of lower quality due a higher ash and water content. As a result Victoria adopted German power station and briquette technology in the 1920s to utilise the brown coal reserves of the Latrobe Valley. Today there are three open cut brown coal mines in Victoria used for baseload power generation."

and common sense and factual information is going to get us a more economical, sustainable energies that we are only coming to grasp with, helium 3, solar flare, and we understand hydrogen to produce electricity,

Australia plays such a small part in the world's pollution yet we are made to feel as if we are the worst on the planet.

[rayke1938]

Dinosaurs and Bob Brown both excrete Bob Brown more so and full of lies.

Dinosaurs only have flies.

If the world was really concerned about global warming etc the respective governments would be controlling it by legislation not taxation such as carbon tax.

Cheers

Ray

[JarrydA]

I agree ray, its all about money. Why not just ban it? Cause that wont make money, simple!

[Nitris]

Ok,,,, just to be sure here... now ur saying that man lived with dinosaurs....

So ur saying that global warming has been around for ages, I totally agree with u. But in the millions of years it has taken the Great Barrier Reef to build its self up.. it has only taken man 100 to 150 years to affect the acidity levels in the water to go up faster then normal and we now have coral bleaching. Surely this makes u worry as a fisherman?

The scrubbers have been around for ages on those stacks. Clean coal tech is to capture all the co2 that comes off coal and is not caught in the scrubbers and pump it into porous rock or contain it in some way. Like I said b4, if it was so good why have they converted most of the power plants around SEQ to gas?

jarryd im sorry mate, but you just cant ban it with out a suitable replacement. You surely understand that infrastructure does not fall from the sky?

Tesla was onto something big with solar flare tech. Helium 3 is amazing tech, too bad it only exists naturally on the moon so getting our hands on that is still a way off. Hydrogen well they can do that now with lasers but really only done in one or two places at research and development levels.

You know what will bring that around faster? proper investment and attitude changing.

Per person we are one of the worst offenders in the world.

[JarrydA]

By ban, i didnt mean 100% ban. My bad on that.

I meant more, bring in legislation forcing the production of cleaner energy, instead of just taxing those using it. This could just to force the implementation of cleaner coal energy production. Or more extreme and spending money on clean power infrastructure like wind and hydro energy.

[haines490slc]

chopping up my post and only quoting what you feel you need and taking my comments out of context to represent the opposite of what I had said, you should represent the green party, peta, greenpeace or become a journalist

big businesses have interests in "green energy" so what is that point

do a bit of research on earth hour, people making big dollars out of it

I was talking about all the anti climate change propaganda, I mean commercials.

[haines490slc]

At the end of the day if some rich fat pig had worked out how to get a patent on the sunshine so he could charge everyone with a solar panel a cost per capita, there would be solar panels everywhere, as long as vested interests and old money who need coal/oil etc to keep their riches, you will see no difference.

[Bommie]

nitris I don't know where you are getting your information from, yes there is evidence to suggest that early man existed then,

the reason for coral bleaching is still being debated and proved that natural occurrences play a big part, eg. floods, cyclones,

the coal stacks at swanbank for example have not been around for ages, they knocked down the old ones a couple of years ago,

helium 3 is found on earth and it is being used, yes there is way more on the moon,

"The California Hydrogen Highway is an initiative to build a series of hydrogen refueling stations along that state. These stations are used to refuel hydrogen vehicles such as fuel cell vehicles and hydrogen combustion vehicles. As of March 2011, the California Fuel Cell Partnership showed 20 stations in operation, with eight more planned. These are located mostly in and around Los Angeles, with a few in the Bay area[65][66] South Carolina also has a hydrogen freeway project, and the first two hydrogen fueling stations opened in 2009 in Aiken and Columbia, South Carolina. According to the South Carolina Hydrogen & Fuel Cell Alliance, the Columbia station has a current capacity of 120 kg a day, with future plans to develop on-site hydrogen production from electrolysis and reformation".

per person that is not a realistic statistic

[Bommie]

chopping up my post and only quoting what you feel you need and taking my comments out of context to represent the opposite of what I had said, you should represent the green party, peta, greenpeace or become a journalist

big businesses have interests in "green energy" so what is that point

do a bit of research on earth hour, people making big dollars out of it

I was talking about all the anti climate change propaganda, I mean commercials.

yes but what about the man made climate change propaganda/commercials

[Bommie]

if we where to wipe out the coal and oil industry, mass unemployment, where would we get our primary products to make our everyday items we all use?

[Eug]

whatever everyone's reasoning is, i think we could all live more efficiently. whether to save some extra bucks or to save the earth if you're not using it then switch it off, takes 2 seconds.

doesn't mean we have to live like cavemen and doesn't mean we light up like a christmas tree either.

[Nitris]

Sorry Bommie... i guess i can elaborate.. growing up looking at those stacks at swanbank from my school over the 90's. The stacks had scrubbers on it then. Yes they took the stacks down some years ago and use gas turbines there now. As its cleaner.

Clean coal tech is capturing everything that comes off burnt coal and storing it, releasing nothing into the atmosphere.

Helium 3 yes is on earth.. but very very rare. The moon has piles more of it and some how they say it will be more economic to mine it there and bring it back.

With Hydrogen I was referring to nuclear fusion. Very similar process to using Helium 3, but Hydrogen is very abundant on earth as I'm sure your aware. They focus the worlds largest laser on it (the worlds largest machine at the size of 3 football fields), and they get a massive amount of energy out of it (far more then put in). One of they by products of this process is Helium.

Cyclones and floods have been around for ever... and there is way more evidence of coral beaching compared to man being around with dinosaurs. I'm not saying that mammals have not been around since then. When u say man you don't seriously mean "homo erectus"?

[Nitris]

if we where to wipe out the coal and oil industry, mass unemployment, where would we get our primary products to make our everyday items we all use?

I agree bommie... There is better things to do with these resources then burn it. I was listing to some guy on the science hour on abc some months ago now.. he was saying that for eg. burning coal is such a prehistoric way of using such a resource. With our modern understanding of chemistry he was alleging that we can chemically extract many other useful products outta coal instead of burning it. Like we all know once its gone its gone.. so lets use it sparingly.

[Gad]

One thing everybody knows is that through out previous ice ages no electricity,coal or oil driven equipment was around, but earth went through ice ages and global warming stages.

So whether you believe in man caused global warming or you do not believe in man caused global warming, it has all happened before And Will Continue To Happen forever and ever Amen.

The scientific method does not discover truth, it eliminates what is not truth, the trouble with scientific research comes when some scientists (remember some gov/company has funded their research) stop looking for what is not true and only look for confirmations of what they theorise..

Global warming is part of natures astronomical cycles, just as ice ages are,so is global warming

Science tell us that: earth's climate naturally fluctuates between warm periods and ice ages. ...ever since the Pre-Cambrian (600 million years ago), ice ages have occurred.

Scientists tells us that: During the last 10 million years, Earth has had 5-10-17 (depending which studies you look at) major ice ages and numerous smaller glaciations such as the recent Little Ice Age. Each major ice age has been followed by a warm period of about 10,000 years, and we are in a warm period now.

Scientists tell us what causes ice ages (once again it depends on which studies you look at): periodic eccentricity of the Earth's orbit explains the ice ages….

or changes in Earth's radiation balance were the principal driver of past climate changes...

or natural tilts in earth's axis cause ice ages

The above are only 3 of many scientific theories of what causes ice ages.

There is also many scientific theories of what causes the global warming periods between ice ages.

Think about it,are we not between ice age cycles.

Mankind is but a grain of sand in the universe,nature and the universe rule us

[Nitris]

I agree gad global warming is a total natural process. Its our ability to allegedly speed this process up if even minute. If a super volcano or asteroid hits well that will be the end of this era and the start of another age. This would be a mass extinction and the start of the process of coal to be remade for the next creatures of earth. Like u said Nature rulz all.

In saying that is our ability to stuff things up.

Look at Australia. Europeans come over here, clear fell trees and use euro farming techniques. What happened? well now there is massive salinity issues in lots of areas.

We as humans are responsible for the extension on average 3 species of plant or animal per hour.

Also what I though was funny is that afo has earth hour advertising banner on the recent post page at the moment. Looks like AFO supports such a idea.

[elops]

Well I did my bit turned off the power and fired up the diesel generator for an hour.

[planetfonz]

yeah i hit the kids in my dungeon and forced them to pedal faster. if you don't have a dungeon, you just aren't doing your bit

[Gad]

I agree gad global warming is a total natural process. Its our ability to allegedly speed this process up if even minute. If a super volcano or asteroid hits well that will be the end of this era and the start of another age. This would be a mass extinction and the start of the process of coal to be remade for the next creatures of earth. Like u said Nature rulz all.

In saying that is our ability to stuff things up.

Look at Australia. Europeans come over here, clear fell trees and use euro farming techniques. What happened? well now there is massive salinity issues in lots of areas.

We as humans are responsible for the extension on average 3 species of plant or animal per hour.

Also what I though was funny is that afo has earth hour advertising banner on the recent post page at the moment. Looks like AFO supports such a idea.

Loving thy neighbour and overpopulating are not sustainable,CO2 and sustainable populating is.

[tiotony]

It can't all be blamed on Europeans coming to Australia and felling trees etc etc although this is a contributing part. The 'modern' Australian Aborigines also did their fair share with regular burning of the land which changed the nature of the ecosystem completely and forever. I say 'modern Aborigines' because a little known and supressed fact is Australia was originally populated by the Pacific Pygmy Negritos, the last populations of which lived in Tasmania and isolated jungle areas of Far North QLD at the time of European settlement. The modern Aborigines were not only responsible for the near genocide of the original indigenous peoples (the same as the Maoris did in New Zealand) , but also wiped out Australia's megafauna through overhunting and the introduction of the dingo. Google it if you are interested.

Personally I believe in sensible management of resources- our technology is not up to an overnight change to clean green power, otherwise somebody would have done it and become an overnight trillionarre as we all would embrace it, myself included. I think we are getting closer as solar cells etc etc become more affordable.

As for the world pointing fingers at us as big contributors to global warming and environment destruction, I think most, if not all Australians on this big guilt trip have not experienced what its like in the developing countries that point the fingers at us. In my personal experience living and working in developing countries, I have seen raped seas, contaminated and undrinkable groundwater, and utter destruction of the environment. In Australia we don't experience those things but in a lot of Australian aid recipient countries it is the way life is; they have destroyed their environment.

Personally my belief is sensible management of resources and limit of the world's population, 2 kids are gonna demand far less of the earth's resources than 8 kids.

[Nitris]

Planetfonz said "

yeah i hit the kids in my dungeon and forced them to pedal faster. if you don't have a dungeon, you just aren't doing your bit"

I for one second the dungeon idea. :whistle:

[elops]

I say we should get behind Bob Brown :ohmy: cover the Earth in trees and create a new Carboniferous Period. They will suck most of the Co2 out of the atmosphere driving massive climate change and lay down new coal deposits so whatever evolves next can do it all again

[Bommie]

I agree gad global warming is a total natural process. Its our ability to allegedly speed this process up if even minute. If a super volcano or asteroid hits well that will be the end of this era and the start of another age. This would be a mass extinction and the start of the process of coal to be remade for the next creatures of earth. Like u said Nature rulz all.

In saying that is our ability to stuff things up.

Look at Australia. Europeans come over here, clear fell trees and use euro farming techniques. What happened? well now there is massive salinity issues in lots of areas.

We as humans are responsible for the extension on average 3 species of plant or animal per hour.

Also what I though was funny is that afo has earth hour advertising banner on the recent post page at the moment. Looks like AFO supports such a idea.

the line about the extinction of 3 species of plant or animal per hour, where did you get this information from?

[planetfonz]

ok everyone calm down !

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJSQFzw1pEE

[Gad]

Edit, sorry, I mistakenly editted out/cut the original instead of just adding onto the piece I wanted to quote

In our younger dinosaur age,at schools, they did teach science subjects, funny thing though, many of those (at that time) scientific facts (theories)eg: in biology, geology, astronomy,etc have since been proven incorrect.

Ok, I see, re-read my post, I blanketed as a whole..

The basic accepted cores(cornerstones of the sciences) have held and have been added to as technology has advanced, back in my dinosaurs time with bare bone basics of science being taught at school, (compared to the wealth of knowledge/facts,theories accepted,or rejected today, with an added 60-70 years of research, with advancing technology) and newer ‘break throughs’ in science 10-20 yrs old and/or still being accepted, and some rejected, most of what was theorised and/or hypothesised on (and some that had been accepted) and put out in a science class room was often inconclusive,yet to be confirmed/verified peer reviewed accepted, and/or not totally correct.

[Nitris]

Loving thy neighbour and overpopulating are not sustainable,CO2 and sustainable populating is.

Totally agree Gad, just that in the real world there is 7 billion people. Unless ur going to slay a lot of people to reduce the population, we are going to have to use our resources sparingly.

gad said "The bottom line is come the end of Earth Hour, you have actually used more power by turning it off, and then turning it back on, than if you had left the lights/appliances on, and have achieved nothing, except to give yourself a warm fuzzy inner feeling."

keep telling ur self that mate and keep ur fuzzy feeling happening in ur pants. Its miss information like that that leads easily controlled minds astray. Did u read that in your courier mail? Have u got one of those smart meters? Try having a look at that next time, I think ur getting confused between turning off and back on again a fluro light in like 30seconds - 15 minutes instead of one hour. When u say that most of what you were taught back in the day is now proven wrong. Id be more inclined to say that some of it would have been, MOST is a bit of a stretch.
/>http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/lighting_daylighting/index.cfm/mytopic=12280

It took you a while to read the whole thread gad, finally you found the dinosaur post, I also explained why i used the term dinosaur. Like i have said which im sure u have read by now, the world was flat once and the earth the center of the universe. Science has also made possible that pc your using right now. It has also given us other cleaner ways to use and create energy. Why not evolve, like the cave man that lived with dinosaurs like bommie said existed.

Come 9:30 most people would be in bed or have most of their lights turned off already, fridges were kept on etc so the spike your talking about would be negligible.

Bommie mate dont kid yourself

hears a quote from a source

"It is obvious that the goal set by world leaders at an Earth Summit in 2002, namely a "significant reduction" by 2010 in the rate of species losses, will not be achieved. "We are indeed experiencing the greatest wave of extinctions since the disappearance of the dinosaurs," said Ahmed Djoghlaf, head of the U.N. Convention on Biological Diversity. "Extinction rates are rising by a factor of up to 1,000 above natural rates. Every hour, three species disappear. Every day, up to 150 species are lost. Every year, between 18,000 and 55,000 species become extinct. The cause: human activities.", he said."

The guy that said this is this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Djoghlaf

at the end of the day, we are never going to agree. People have to believe what they want to so they can get on with life. Our attitudes will evolve over time one way or another.