Potential Moreton Bay Green Zones

[Do$tylz]

Hey Guys,

Check this out. Just found it in todays Courier Mail.

/>http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,21906757-3102,00.html

Sounds like a pretty good idea. From reading about other places that have done the same thing, the fish numbers and sizes grow if the zones are large enough and respected. I think its a good thing.

[obone]

They need to do something about the amount of fish being caught, but the problem in Moreton Bay, especially, Moreton Is. is still the commercial netters.

My Dad and I were out one day just inside of Moreton and the bay was boiling with big tuna. We got 10 in about 10 minutes and that was enough for us so we came in. On the way back we saw 3 trawlers anchored off Tangalooma and over the night they just netted the crap out of anything that was in the area and the next day there were quite literally no tuna left. That is the sort of action that is unsustainable! Not the old recreational fishermen going for a punt in our boats.

Also the beach netters on Moreton. Moreton i believe is now the only Island around here left where commercial netting is still allowed. And of course the tailor are just getting harder and harder to catch off Moreton.

Joel

[ellicat]

I'll reserve judgment until they tell us what they're taking from us. If they shut where I like to fish it will be a bad plan. If they shut where I don't want to go it will be a good plan. Also will depend on what they think they will be protecting.

[Freedom]

Thats it..Blame 3 trawlers who were probably inside moreton while the crew were sleep, and who were probably chasing deepsea prawns outside... :evil: Sick to death of people blaming trawlers when they cant catch fish....:evil: Get up early do your homework and you will always come home with a feed..

[obone]

Freedom mate, you can't say that commercial fishing is not denting the fish stocks. It's unsustainable.

[Gazza]

It is well documented that comercial fishermen, and I use the term fishermen lightly, :evil: as I see them as persons who rape closed waterways they kill and discard undersize fish and unwanted spieces just to make a $.

Take Port Phillip bay in Vic the scollop trawlers would drag the bottom in search for their prize catch destroying all the habitat ( oddly enough :pinch: that their prize catch needed that habbitat that they destroy to survive thus killing their own supply !!!!!)

fish in the bay are also depleted due to destrution caused by these so called pros, that finally it was banned and has taken many years to get the bay to a healthy state again :evil:

It is proven recreational Fishermen have very little impact on fish populations due to well thought bag and size limits where as a pro scoops up every thing he can. :evil:

3 Trawlers Freedom can get more fish in 1 Haul than most of us could expect in a life time combined!

Not to mention that recreational Anglers generate millions of dollars every year to the comunity and preservation of their sport, what have the pros done except line their pockets and say WE are killing off fishing YEAH RIGHT :evil:

Gaz

[Do$tylz]

wheyyyy...thought this topic would be a bit contentious but not this heavy.

Obone ... no good just assuming that the trawlers had a dig at the tuna overnight...as freedom said they could have been prawn dudes.

freedom...trawlers in general unfortunately have a bad name. im sure there are a majority of trawlers that respect and treat the waters properly, but it only takes a few bad apples to label the entire group. and i think its just the mindset that we as recreationaly fisher-dudes only take what is needed for a feed once in a while. Where trawlers can take entire schools of fish in one hit.

Mind you gents if there were no trawlers there would be very little sea food at the markets, they would cost more and there probably wouldnt be all you can eat seafood joints for under $100. I think they are a partially necessary evil. As long as they are well regulated and research is done in sustainable catches, we can all fish in this great ocean of ours together.

If anyone reads or is interested in reading sustainable fishing, and reading about the impact unrestrained trawling can have, have a look at the April 07 edition of National Geographic. Fishing in the oceans is the main topic of this entire edition. A great read.

[Brian D]

Yahoo - I love this topic - as long as we respect each others voice and don't make enimies of one another.

Good umpire work Do$tyle.

Here's my view.

About the closures: I will not be worried if they close certian areas as long as there are ongoning studies that conclude with improved fish stocks.

About the trawlers: My 1 hook against 1 long net in a trawler - I loose.

About the fish stocks; Why don't the pros put $$ back into restocking, why do they take and not restock? Why don't we rec fishers pay a rec licence fee with the funds going to restocking salt water species.

I know - You have heard that before - well nothing has been done!

Post edited by: Brian D, at: 2007/06/16 01:22

[Angus]

Yeah im of the same mind as Brian.

I dont mind partial closures. It is undeniable there were more fish years ago than tehre are now. Lets create some places where they can breed and be juveniles in peace. The simple fact is it will benefit the fishery as a whole as they are not going to stay in these invisible limits.

As to trawlers, without stats and first hand knowledge i think bagging them just turns into a useless match of who has the louder opinion. My personal opinion, well i think they have to revise their methods. I have seen the by catch that dies vs the catch a few times and sometimes its shocking. Down at Yamba i saw literally kilo's of dead undersize flatties, bream, whiting and jew for maybe a few buckets of prawns

Thats not sustainable. Rec permits and stiffer pro permits to go towards research and restocking i think would be a positive step.

I would be happy to pay if i thought it could benefit us in years to come.

Angus

Post edited by: Angus, at: 2007/06/15 16:06

[Gazza]

Another can of worms

;ie price of fish.

Comercial farming of fish has been successfully done on nearly all wanted speicies and does not have an adverse affect on wild stock and can supply the market with enough seafood to suppliment our needs I recently watched an article on japanese tuna and as the pro's run out of wild stock. they the markets have adopted farm breed tuna claiming that the unsupportable demand on wild tuna in Japan had no option :whistle: but to go to farm fish

my point is establish these farms let the closed waters revive and all should be good

all I look for is a better alternative to raping our closed waterways

not to offend those trying to make a crust

Gaz

PS this is a great thread and one to be kept so when time comes to have your say on closures it will be doccumented

[Angus]

My thoughts are they we should be proactice not reactive.

Byt this i mean, lets establish fish farms etc now, as opposed to when we have no choice!

Angus

[Gazza]

I like the way you put that bud well said

Farming for the future not resurect the past

is the way to go :woohoo:

Gaz

[ellicat]

I agree with the sentiment Angus.

However the size of the farm(s) required to support the demand for the variety of species fished commercially now is probably close to the size of the \"coastal\" ocean. It is economically a very marginal practice. Tassal being one of the successful ones due to the species (Tuna) that they farm.

There is not one thing that will preserve a sustainable level of fishing (IMO). I believe only a combination of things will do the job.

Fish stocking along with closed-zones (full time and part time) along with closed seasons along with bag and size limits will be/is necessary. One idea I have is not only species bag limits, but total catch limits - i.e. You can't have in your possession (or on your boat) 5 snapper plus 30 bream plus 20 sweetlip, you can have total 20 fish combined (figure plucked from the air) with individual limits still applying.

In addition to this I would say that there is no necessity to impose a fee on recreational fishers. This just should not be necessary with the taxes that are collected as a result of the activity anyway. A longer term outlook on things would see the governments coffers indirectly bolstered by the benefits of a well managed fishery (e.g. tourism and tackle store employment etc etc)

Well that's my little rant anyway. (I do have a serious side sometimes)

[Feral]

Well I reckon the current yellow zones would have to be high on the candidate list for going green IE the Pin and Pumistone passage. (Particularly as there is a small green zone in pumistone already.)

[Freedom]

You can all get back to me after you have worked on trawlers and seen how we actually operate and what we ahve done to release 90% plus of the fish we catch back alive, i will write more later on this subject,

[rayke1938]

I have known a few pro fishing families for over 40 years. These guys are bay net fisherman and they have always very concious of the enviorament and the health of the fishery. They are not raving greenies or rapists. They know the bay and have always only taken what the fishery can bear.

I know it is a pain to go and fish a spot and get nothing and find that the area was staked the previous night but these people also have to make a living and they also want to hand down their gear and licence to their kids. So its just a matter of waiting a few nights and having another go.

With the crabbers that is a different story . Most of them down this way ( Redlands) are good blokes but there are a couple who still sell \" unders \" on the side and you dont put your pots in redland bay channel near the pro pots or you will loose your floats very quickly.

I dont think that the pro fisherman are the enemy with the proposed green zones and all our efforts should be used to ensure a viable sustainable fishery for all.

If people like Simon Balitis and his greeny mates get their way we will have nothing.

Ray

[Cowfish13]

ellicat wrote:

I agree with the sentiment Angus.

Fish stocking along with closed-zones (full time and part time) along with closed seasons along with bag and size limits will be/is necessary. One idea I have is not only species bag limits, but total catch limits - i.e. You can't have in your possession (or on your boat) 5 snapper plus 30 bream plus 20 sweetlip, you can have total 20 fish combined (figure plucked from the air) with individual limits still applying.

You cannot have more than 20 reef fin fish (such as sweetlip, parrot, Moses perch etc.) in you possession at any one time. Regardless of total bag limits. Also, I'm not sure, but I think that there are boat limits on some species of fish. But again I'm not sure on that point, but the limit of 20 reef fin fish is definatly true.

[ellicat]

Yeah Cowfish - that was just an example to try to explain what I meant. (Guess it didn't work )

[Feral]

My guide only mentions the 20 reef fish bag limit.

I see it also prohibits the keeping of live reef fish, so you cant keep them in a live tank and \"upgrade\".

[Brian D]

Get on track - bloody heck this makes me angry. Everyone has their say but noone wants to say anything about restocking.

When was the last time a crop grower harvested his crop and did not replant?

When was the last time a cattle farmer took cattle to the slaughter yard without leavig a breading stock behind?

When was the last time a fishing trawler took out a net full of fish and left a breading stock behind.

See my point? A goodfarmer replants, replaces rebreeds, re puts back and natures what he takes.

The trawlers put back what?

I am not talking pennies or token quanties but I am refering to quantities that would make a difference.

[Freedom]

Hey Brian, What do you put back?? What do any of us really put back??

by the way, I have never been to a restaurant or any fish and chip shop and heard people complain when they are eating seafood or calling pro-fisherman rapists while they are sitting down to a huge seafood Buffet Dinner, Dont hear any complaints from people who are buying bait/fish from a Baitshop either and where does all this product come from...Trawlers If you are all serious about getting rid of trawlers becuase you hate them so much-Dont create the market... dont buy any form of seafood.... Only eat what you catch without buying bait from a shop.. If there is no market, they would be no need for guys to go to sea for months at a time and risk there life so any of you can go out on any night and eat your favourite seafood in your favourite eating venue,

Sad thing is there will always be a \"us vs them\" mentality so we will just have to learn to live with each other.

For young Obone -- i was on a trawler for 10 years and did not ever catch one tuna in a net, Tuna are a specialised catch for a different type of vessel,

[faulked]

i cant say ive never bought bait etc that would be complete crap but i dont normally buy it now and i dont buy seafood more than twice a year all my bait i collect myself or i use steak as bait i would like to see the pro boats taking out nubes like me to catch a feed pay top dollar for the privelidge and come home happy rather than pay good money for boats etc charters to catch bugger all as collectively us fisherman consumers farmers politicians have rapped the enviroment as a whole :evil: not to whinge or anything:whistle:

[chubbstar]

WOW This is a good topic, made me sit back and have a good think.....

I too have worked on trawlers, not out at sea but unloading the catch. I have had a lot to do with comercial fisher men.

The family fishing business cares about the future.. This is thier living. How they survive in this world. I can asure you theres nothing more heart breaking than seeing a loved 1 off at the wharf, and seeing them return with a fish or two.

$$$$ spent on fuel, bait and other overheads, Homes being reposesed because the fish are gone, I've seen it and lived it.

On the other hand I worked a New Zealand trawler that was ran by BIG BUSINESS. They took everything bigger than a 50c peice. The fish that could'nt be sold as table fish were minced into FISH MEAL.

Big business dont care about the future, only the profits to be had today, The current climate change is a perfect example. We have a PM (LOVES BIG BUSINESS) that wont aven aknowledge a problem.

yes we need the big boys but at what cost???

Trawlers raping the sea? SOME YES

Rec fishermen doing the wrong thing? SOME YES, (Everytime I go fishing I'm pulling MT bait bags out of the water among other things)

The sad fact is we recs go fishing, dont catch we go home and buy food.

life go's on.

The pros dont catch, they loose homes and some even familys.

Fishing is a HOBBY I love,and a feed or two for the family, I dont need it to live!

Only my opinion,

[jeff f]

great topic great replys, i'm with you brian. imaginethe fishing in the brissy river after 5 years of releasing 100 000 fingerlings per year of each of the 10 most viable recreational species( including crabs) at kooka park all paid for by our $20 lousy dollar a year recrealional restocking fee, and the pros $1000 per licence anual restocking fee

imagine this happening in every major watercourse in the state.........think about it

Post edited by: jeff f, at: 2007/06/17 17:16

[ellicat]

Agree with you Jeff, BUT the government should have nothing to do with it! Where are the funds from the ambulance levy ? Where are the funds from the excess water rates we've been coughing up for years? Governments have to much discretion where they spend the bucks (from memory the \"Goodwill\" bridge was decided on the same time the ambulance levy started and there is no way that revenue has all found its way into that area) And let's not forget the 1% gun levy we all paid for one year - they wouldn't have spent half of it on the intended purpose. That's all 3 levels of government covered.

The solution - regional stocking associations or the like.

Who wants to start ?

[jeff f]

been any where in nsw lately and seen what they are doing with thier licence fees?

anything they can do we can do better

[ellicat]

Yeah Jeff, they've done well (except for closing my favourite spot at Lennox).

If they could guarantee the money would be spent where it's directed (like the SIP system where you say where you'd like the funds to go), I'd support it.

[rayke1938]

The government creams off nearly 40% of the sip fees as administeration expenses before they even think of sharing it around.

Ray

[ellicat]

On the bright side - 60% gets through:unsure: I guess they do have some costs to cover from it.

I'm sure non-government could do it better.

[Brian D]

Freedom wrote:

Hey Brian, What do you put back?? What do any of us really put back??

Freedom, I am willing to pay an annual restocking fee or permit. Are you? Do you really suggest that the pros should not look at a sustainable fishing program?

[Brian D]

chubbstar wrote:

WOW This is a good topic, made me sit back and have a good think.....

The sad fact is we recs go fishing, dont catch we go home and buy food.

life go's on.

The pros dont catch, they loose homes and some even familys.

Fishing is a HOBBY I love,and a feed or two for the family, I dont need it to live!

Only my opinion,

Chubbstar - very good view. I like the respect and level approach but this lends weight to my view - Restocking is not an option but a necessity.

Like Jeff says if it's good enought for the blues! Why does Qld always have to be last when getting with the future!

Elli - your right - it can't be just state government

[Lozzel]

Jump on me if you like BUT I'm in favor of \"Green Zones\".If they are in the wright place.

Coming from upnorth Where the Zones have been in place for some years.Over a vast expanse of the Great Barrier Reef,I have seen the increase in catchs in reef fish outside the Zones.The Zones give the fish a place to bred and grow as juviniles, then natural migration moves them out of the zones where they can be caught by fisherman.Pro's or rec's,thus in the long term making it better for all.At that time their was a big uproar by all concerned fisher people,with alot of debating to & fro,But what it boiled down too was the Govt & the comunity coming to a mutual understanding.Also those Pros that wanted to get out ,got out at the tax payers expense with the buy back.

With the Govt buy back of licences and the closing of aeras to trawlers in kepple bay ,the stocks of bread & butter fish as greatly improved.

With the stopping of Ring Netting schools of Mackeral ,we now get better catchs of these fish.

As one of these so called \"RAPISTS\" that I used to be (as we all had to make a living and pay the bills somehow)and being a rec fisher person for a lot longer I can see the benifits.

As for \"Farming\" ,wasnt their a mob that wanted to start \"Farming Kingies\" in Morten Bay. But was stopped by the locals & greenies at the time.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.It was something that I read sometime ago.

Laurie.

[Feral]

Brian D wrote:

Freedom wrote:

Hey Brian, What do you put back?? What do any of us really put back??

Freedom, I am willing to pay an annual restocking fee or permit. Are you? Do you really suggest that the pros should not look at a sustainable fishing program?

I just worked out it has cost me roughly $150 in fishing fees over the last 12 months or so.

Made up of fees for

Baroon Pocket ($5 a go)

Hinze Dam ($7 a go)

Somerset ($15 boat fee)

SIP (which gave me access to Glenlyon, Somerset, Lenthalls and Borumba in last 12 months).

I am happy to pay the lot! I would be ecstatic if a salt water equivalent of the SIP was introduced, even with a 40% cream off for running costs, its better than nothing!

[Brian D]

On ya Loz - Karma for that one

You gotta love an educated view!

[Gazza]

Restocking is a Great concept and I agree with you entirely

However :pinch: since all freshwater restocking comes from breeding farms !

and unless I'm mistaken we have very little if any saltwater breeding farms :pinch:

so maybe a big push towards the powers to be !

would be to utilize the funds to establise this type of programs

The only other problem I see with restocking salt water spiecies is which ones snapper, bream ,flathead ???? how many farms are we going to have :pinch:

seasonal closure on breeding times seems the best bet

just a thought

Gaz

[ellicat]

Bump for Ash

[faulked]

i personally believe in destocking, there is one species that is overstocked to crittical levels, its growth is destroying the habitat of other species, its is poisoning its local enviroment with high levels of waste and contamination, this introduced species is directly responsible for centuries worth of exctincion level events and has wiped out hundreds of food chain species. if they continue on the path set all of animal kind is set for extincion. so do fish a favour and put a bag limit on humans they taste great come in several flavours and are very fast breeding some countries economies could be saved forever :side: :laugh:

[Dan23]

You weren't part of the Eugenics movement were you Faulked?

[faulked]

id never heard of that group dan so i looked it up jeez they have some valid points there

[ellicat]

There is a fundamental floor to their whole philosophy though.