January Austackle ROTM Roll Over

[AFO]

After much discussion with the competition sponsor we have mutually decided to roll over the 2012 January Austackle Report Of The Month Competition prize pack to February making the February prize twice the size.

For complete transparency we will explain this decision...

There were only 2 nominations for the January period.

The first one made for Rocket75's report was a tough one. Although everyone involved from AFO and Austackle concede this was a sensational capture worthy of accolades, official reports of fish caught in closed season have always attracted negative attention on the site. The personal feeling among many of the admin is that this report worthy as no one could possibly point the finger and suggest someone would invest time intentionally targeting an Upper Coomer Barra, we have elected to pass this report over in an effort to not draw criticism to it. In short however... Well done Rocket75 for what it is worth!

The second nomination (which was to become an epic saga) was for Shane69's post on illegal fishing activities. Without getting involved in any opinions as this is not what this thread is for, this nomination as passed over as it was simply not a "report" in the admins eyes. The post was made in the "Environment" section of the forum and was not seemed eligible. Once again we do not deny this was an interesting read for many, but the competition is called the "Report Of The Month" and we would prefer not set precedent for other posts to be nominated.

Good luck to all those nominated in February!

The Team

AFO

[bootyinblue]

I really dont understand the rationale behind this decision. I agree that only having 2 reports nominated and both being of hotly debated issues could only end in a conundrum, but what is the difference in Rods barra caught in closed season, photographed and released, and the undersized fish that are caught, photographed and released with the resulting photos being entered in whatever competition is being fished at the time and taking out prizes?

Just seems puzzling to me....

[ellicat]

Bad luck, Rocket Rod. At least you will still be grinning from ear to ear about the fish you caught. :woohoo:

Shane, If only Moses was a fish

[haines490slc]

how about you roll it back to December and give me the prize for what was clearly the best report of the month with my LMI report ;-)

[Shane69]

Bad luck, Rocket Rod. At least you will still be grinning from ear to ear about the fish you caught. :woohoo:

Shane, If only Moses was a fish

Id realise him to a school of sharks in the bay lol.

When i wrote the report i didnt want to win report of month or anything. I just wanted people to know if you see wrong say something about sooner or later something will be done about it.

[Malcolm]

Roll it forward because I.m gunna catch something awesome and write the best report and collect (cool face)

[Freshy]

The real conundrum is; what to do, "damned if you do and damned if you don't"!!!

[Rocket75]

Well I've only just caught up with this post and I must say I am extremely disappointed.

I took a lot of time and effort into writing this report and getting suitable images ( as I have with many before it over the years).

Using the following (AFO official) judging and entry criteria I would argue that my report was valid and acceptable as it met all the listed criteria.

Oh well, looks like that will be the last ROTM that I will enter or nominate.

Actually it may be the last report I post full stop.

Thanks for reading

See ya

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey everyone,

In response to a few queries on how these reports will be judged by the judging panel, a list of criteria has been made below:

* Quality Of Writing.

* Quality Of Fish Caught.

* Quality Of Photo's.

* Quality of information in the report.

* Entertainment value.

* Members overall report contribution.

We also do take into account the "Reasons For Nomination" that the voter has listed.

Entry Process: Reports are to be made in the relevant “Fishing Reports†section of the AFO Forum. For example, a report from the Noosa River is to be made in the “North Coast Reports†section and a report from Hinze Dam is to be made in “The Lakes Reports†section. A new Topic has been created under “Competitions†called “Report Of The Month Nominationsâ€. Each month admin will create a thread stating the month and year. If there is a report you would like to nominate for Report Of The Month, please make it in this thread using the following format:

Username:

Date Of Report:

URL Link:

Members can nominate their own reports in this way as we understand some will go to great efforts with their reports to have a shot at the prize provided by Austackle.

[bootyinblue]

Understandable response Rocket.... if you are reading this?

[bennykenny]

im not much of a poster here, although an avid reader, and am surprised and the lack of support for rockets report,i cant belive that you guys dont have the goolies to speak up and say what you think.

mate it was an awesome report, loved every word of it,and made alot of us as jelous as hell that it wasnt us doing it.well done Mate, and i think you deserve the win.

[shortie]

I agree. AFO made a bad descision.

It is report of the month not Fish of the month.

The species and size of the fish have nothing to do with the quality of the report.

Bad publicity or not the wrong descision has been made.

[ellicat]

I understand your frustration Rocket. But I don't think you should be so cut about it.

You are not alone in putting effort into reports. A lot of the members do exactly the same. I have taken 2 days to get a report up - write the story, select, edit and add the images, edit videos and upload to Youtube to bring across for the report. I've been doing it since long before the ROTM comp came in. I've never done it to win a prize; it's just part of what we do as members here.

If the ROTM had an entry fee then you'd be right to be having a hissy fit about it. But this is something the guys have organised and a sponsor supported to reward those that make the effort with a chance to get some goodies. It's not as if because you submit a report you will definitely be given the opportunity.

I hope you aren't offended by my contrary view. I am just seeing it a different way.

I'm happy to just get a couple of thankyou's when I post a report, a nomination is exciting, and winning - I'm not sure what that feels like. :pinch:

bennykenny,

I think you will find there are plenty of members with enough goolies to say what they think, but it is the first night of the NRL season and the forum is pretty slow tonight

[bootyinblue]

I can't agree Brian. The report was posted on the 4th day of the month and although I can't see the exact day the nomination was made I doubt Rod would have nominated his own report strategically on the last day of the month after considering the opposition.

Was is because it was a self nomination? Was it because it had no competition? Was it because as publicized it was a fish that was subject to a restriction at the time that was caught?

One thing is for certain though, its bewildered quite a few people and possibly as a knock on effect is why not one report was nominated in February.

[Angus]

No one ever claimed it was not an awesome report. However reports featuring illegal activity are not technically allowed on the site full stop. This is pendantic granted, as Rod was surely not in the Coomera targeting Barramundi, however it doesnt change the fact that it was a closed season fish caught and photographed in closed season.

On a personal level I think it deserved to win and think it was a great effort.

From a member of an admin team that has to deal with flak constantly over rules and regulations we cant be "grey" with these decisions. It's black and white and regardless of the fact that we think Rod is a top bloke and caught a great fish, we can't let that determine the result.

This unfortuantly is an extreme case due to the obscurity of the catch in its location but never the less would set a precedent. What next? An absolutely awesome report featuring a 60cm bass caught below the dam wall in closed season while apparently targeting yellas? Once again, this is an extreme example deisgned to pull the strings of past AFO contestations, however, precedent would be set to allow this.

Although not being soley responsible for the decision I have and will extend another personal apology to Rod but once again it has to be a black and white decision. This is a very frustrating part doing my job here being a "boss" and a "mate" to many.

Rod: I hope you dont get put off long term. A lot of people (you included) made great efforts in reports before we ever awarded prizes for them. I myself make a huge effort with my reports usually and have no chance what so ever of ever winning! It was a great report, a great image and has already gone down in the AFO memory banks as "epic". Surely the lack of a few lures can't detract from the great feeling this should give?

I have tried to blend a personal and official reponse into one here so I hope it made sense!

Angus

[Bommie]

damned if you do, damned if you don't Gus

"it was a fish that was subject to a restriction at the time that was caught?"

pretty simple explanation, what is the problem????????

a lot of people complained about the photos of undersize fish in comps. so afo rectify it with jan's rotm and still they get complaints

Good catch and report Rod

[ellicat]

I can't agree Brian. The report was posted on the 4th day of the month and although I can't see the exact day the nomination was made I doubt Rod would have nominated his own report strategically on the last day of the month after considering the opposition.

Was is because it was a self nomination? Was it because it had no competition? Was it because as publicized it was a fish that was subject to a restriction at the time that was caught?

One thing is for certain though, its bewildered quite a few people and possibly as a knock on effect is why not one report was nominated in February.

/>http://www.australianfishing.com.au/forum/98-report-of-the-month/388025-austackle-rotm-nominations-janusry-2012#393708

Rocket self-nominated at 21:23 on 29/1/12.

You can't be disagreeing with my point, Greg. My point acknowledges Rod's disappointment at the ruling but the point of my argument is to disagree with him about not posting more reports etc. Although somewhat different from a technical point, if members stopped posting because they didn't win the competition then we would have nothing. I say if this is the standard reaction then drop the comp altogether. BOFW imo

[shortie]

No matter what the official stance is Still an awesome report.

The report no only shows an educated fisherman that knows Queensland rules and regulations about closed season of Barra. But also practices and abided by them to the letter of thye law.

More reports and sustainable methods of fishing like this should be applauded.

I dont think the reports shows any illegal activity, but it does in fact show someopne abiding by the rules and regs.

This is even more applicable to a fisherman that fishes waters where the closed season of this fish is never an expected Catch.

Good on you Rod and fishing buddy for displaying great knowledge of closed seasons and applying that knowledge to your catch.

Reports like this should be awarded not discouraged.

Just my opinion

Richard.

[Runty66]

At the end of the day its a free fishing forum we should all be greatfull of.

It was a truely awesome report! And an awesome barra, but it was closed season.

If the 5 or so Austackle lure's mean that you wont be posting again, i will be happy to give you my couple of Sankana's and destroy's ive got that i won at BRC and are brand new, ( same prize i think)

I do feel for AFO as you can never win,no matter what they decide someone will have a go at them for a "bad descision" As Angus says on he's profile " i cant Please everyone".

[JarrydA]

However reports featuring illegal activity

What was illegal in the report? Its not illegal to catch a barra in closed season if its released? is it?

[PlasticFantastic]

It's an interesting topic this one, rules are rules and as good a report as it was the fish was removed from the water and photographed when it should've been released without being removed from the water. Having said that I was there when the fish was caught and took the photos for rod and who wouldn't with a catch like that. Would've I put up a report with it in it knowing the rules? Hell yes, would I be disappointed if I didn't get report of the month for it? Most likely not. In the end I would've preferred to be the one who caught the fish then worry about a few prize lures, and yes rod you still suck for catching that fish in front of me. Also keep putting up reports mate.

Cheers

Mark

[JarrydA]

as it was the fish was removed from the water and photographed when it should've been released without being removed from the water.

Cheers, that cleared up my query, i was unsure of the actual removal from water technicalities.

[aussie123]

as it was the fish was removed from the water and photographed when it should've been released without being removed from the water.

Cheers, that cleared up my query, i was unsure of the actual removal from water technicalities.

That's not actually quite right.

You are allowed to remove the fish from the water for unhooking purposes by means of a net or gaff.

As long as the fish is returned to the water unharmed you have not broken the law.

[JarrydA]

Thanks lance,

That's the logical answer, and the one i came to begin with.

[Rocket75]

Please allow me to make a few points,

Yes I did nominate my own report.

If I post what I consider to be a good report in an eligible month I will wait till the end of the month before self nominating. This is not to see if anyone else posts a good report (or lack of reports) but to allow other people to nominate my report (so I don't feel like I'm pushing my own barrow.)

Grey area...I don't see that there is a grey area.

Did I do anything illegal...I don't think so.

Was I targeting Barra in closed season...No (4lb braid in the Coomera on a 2-4kg stick) even the most ardent closed season advocate can't possibly argue that I was.

Did I realease the fish unharmed? Yes...it was treated with care and respect and swam away strongly.

The prize...to me it's not about the prize (I don't have enough room for the gear I have nor the opportunity to use it).

For me it's about the honour of being awarded the prize and in this case the reason for being disqualified.

I understand that you can not please 100% of the people 100% of the time, but I think that this decision has been made in an attempt to palcate a 5% (if that) minority that may kick up a stink when the 95% would accept the report for what it was....a well written account of an amazing capture that broke no laws and ended with a great fish released to fight another day.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is mine.

[ellicat]

It's an interesting topic this one, rules are rules and as good a report as it was the fish was removed from the water and photographed when it should've been released without being removed from the water. Having said that I was there when the fish was caught and took the photos for rod and who wouldn't with a catch like that. Would've I put up a report with it in it knowing the rules? Hell yes, would I be disappointed if I didn't get report of the month for it? Most likely not. In the end I would've preferred to be the one who caught the fish then worry about a few prize lures, and yes rod you still suck for catching that fish in front of me. Also keep putting up reports mate.

Cheers

Mark

That's pretty much what I was trying to say.

Rocket, You are already famous for that barra. You are talked about at events. You have recognition.

No doubt in the future catching a barra in an unusual spot will be called "doing a Rocket". I say "You win" and I'm pretty sure most would agree - You Win !

If you bugger off and stop reporting - We lose, you lose.

[bennykenny]

for what its worth i had a similar problem on another forum with a competition, and there wasnt even a prize for it. all i asked for was some clarifaction of the rules. i know its good in hindsight, but i guess its just the way the competition must evolve, to give everyone a fair chance.maybe by on adding no out of season, illegal, or undersized fish, and possibly there must be a minimum of 2 qualifying reports, to be a winner, just my opinion.

[AFO]

Clarification: Fish caught and photographed out of season are removed from reports (when picked up by admin). Thus a report (once again however great) featuring an out of season fish will not be eligible. We not having a crack at one angler or another, but the practice itself. Not everyone will know to get a fish back in the water ASAP and may spend several minutes trying capture "the perfect picture" for the report.

Dont feel hard done by as this is nothing personal. Angus Gorrie, site admin and co-owner caught two Barramundi during closed season at the Noosa Jack Off. These images were originally included in his report and were removed by fellow admin (with a curt reminder to set an example) although he had photographed and released fish quickly in his opinion.

We aim to set the best example possible for amateur and beginner fisherman and awarding people offcially for capturing a fish out of season wherever, whenever or however it is done is not consistant with this goal.

Further to the last after further scrutiny there should be no surprises here.

In November 2011 a report was deemed ineligible. The report concerned was fantastic, well written, photographed and generally filling the usual ROTM requirements. It did however feature Murray Cod caught outside of season. The overwhelming community consensus (not a mere 5%) was that although a great report this would not be eligible and thus the precedent was set.

Additionally there is no issue with nominating your own report. In fact this has been encouraged in the past for people wanting to have a go at the ROTM. We are not sure how or why this became an issue as it was never officially flagged as a reason for ineligibility.

AFO

[Angus]

A couple of additional points have been added to the post above.

This matter has been deemed closed. If you have any further concerns or suggestions please feel free to PM this account. We can't improve existing systems without feedback.

AFO

[Do$tylz]

Hey guys,

I've just had a chat to Angus and discussed that I think this thread should be unlocked.

reason - by locking the thread it looks like the matter is being swept under the carpet, but it's far from that. The topic is being discussed between admin and mods around what each persons thoughts are. I've asked Angus to unlock it to maintain some transparency to to show to the community that as AFO mods and admins, we do take everyones opinions and views on board. Unfortunately the decisions made may not always be to everyones agreement.

proviso on keeping this unlocked - that discussion around this topic doesn't do circle work, people read the entire thread before throwing in their 2 cents, and everyone understands that decisions made here are of best intentions.

Personally - I can understand both sides.

Rod - c'mon man You know the value of your contribution to AFO is apprecaited and admired. Not just by normal readers but by admin and mods as well. Don't let this 1 disagreement change your views and opinions of AFO and your interactions with it. It'll be a shame to lose you from the Old Boys.

AFO - yeah.. unfortunately tough decisions need to be made and as a growing site, rules have to be interpreted and re-interpreted on the fly at times. When they're not so clear cut to start with, decisions need to be made to make them clear. Intentions are always weighed to what is best for the site and its greatercommunity.

ps - any posts in this thread deemed to be inflaming the situation will be deleted with no warning. PM if you have dramas with that

[Bommie]

Mark and Henry sum it up the best

[max pwr]

Can someone tell me exactly where it says you cannot remove a fish from the water in closed season? I'm not disputing this rule but I've searched as best my abilities on the web and cannot find mention of any restriction other than the deliberate targeting of a species during closed season.

[ellicat]

Can someone tell me exactly where it says you cannot remove a fish from the water in closed season? I'm not disputing this rule but I've searched as best my abilities on the web and cannot find mention of any restriction other than the deliberate targeting of a species during closed season.

Qld Fisheries Act. Can't remember the year (1999?)

It doesn't say you can't remove from the water. As Aussie123456 said before you can remove from water for the purposes of de-hooking. So to get a legal picture someone would need to be taking a pic of the fish while you were doing so.

I'll try to dig up the thread from late last year where this topic was discussed at some length. I'll bump that thread if I find it.

[bootyinblue]

Glad this has been unlocked as I think it needs to be fleshed out some more.

I honestly cannot see any difference between rods barra caught and an undersize fish caught.

Rods fish gets his report disqualified, the undersize fish gets awarded a prize in a AFO fishing comp.

Is it just me or does that seem a contradiction as to get a legal picture of am undersized fish it would have to be done while unhooking and not when its placed neatly on a brag mat with unique items next to it.

[Angus]

Booty: Apples and Pears. Different comps and for whatever reason Undersize fish dont seem to fall into the same "release as quickly as possible subject to nothing" bracket in the guidelines that Out Of Season fish do, but simply the "must be released" bracket. Small difference granted, but cases are made on less.

In short we always endevour to learn from mistakes, disagreements and revise rules, make rules more clear and generally try and improve things when and if required. This is certainly such a case. However, with this being said, no changes will be made to past rulings.

Angus

[bootyinblue]

We will have to agree to disagree....and that is cool with me.

[Rocket75]

I'm glad that this topic is still open for discussion as I feel it is a bone of contention.

Here is an extract/adaptation of a message I recently sent to Angus and is all I'll add to this topic.

"I can see why the decision was made but do not agree with it.

Placating the idiot minority may keep things quiet, but it sure as hell doesn't seem fair.

I've had plenty of messages of support (some from people I've never met) so I know that I'm not the only one to feel this way.

.......

If we (as fishermen) can't agree that I was NOT targeting a species out of season and did nothing wrong, then we should give up and play golf.

I've met some great guys thru AFO (as I know you have) but this matter has really pi$$ed me off so you will be seeing less of me on-line and at events.

rod

[fishingnut]

I'm glad that this topic is still open for discussion as I feel it is a bone of contention.

Here is an extract/adaptation of a message I recently sent to Angus and is all I'll add to this topic.

"I can see why the decision was made but do not agree with it.

Placating the idiot minority may keep things quiet, but it sure as hell doesn't seem fair.

I've had plenty of messages of support (some from people I've never met) so I know that I'm not the only one to feel this way.

.......

If we (as fishermen) can't agree that I was NOT targeting a species out of season and did nothing wrong, then we should give up and play golf.

I've met some great guys thru AFO (as I know you have) but this matter has really pi$$ed me off so you will be seeing less of me on-line and at events.

rod

Cmon mate I injoyed your reports with kiwi and can honestly see both sides of the story but no need to take the bat and ball and head for home!

[Carter]

Good report Rod and what a sensational capture that any Angler would be proud of.

I dont really agree with the decision however I respect it and where AFO is coming from.

Looking froward to another report

[ellicat]

...

I'll try to dig up the thread from late last year where this topic was discussed at some length. I'll bump that thread if I find it.

This is the poll from the time. The percentages, if indicative, are rather instructive.
/>http://www.australianfishing.com.au/forum/38-general-chat/382846-afo-reports-with-illegal-activity-poll#382846

[Rocket75]

I've no problem with that Brian, anything illegal should be discouraged by whatever means.

My point is that I don't believe that I did anything illegal.

Had I been fishing on a well known barra hotspot...problem

If I'd kept or harmed the fish out of season...problem

As I was did neither of the above...how can that be a problem?

Where was the crime?