the great debate

[shortie]

Thought i would post this in its own thread.

As many of you would of noticed lately there was much discussion regarding the catch and release of Threadfin Salmon in the Brisbane River.

Some people for, and some against. (Each to their own cause if its legal to do so its fine by me)

The principle argument for the (relese/ not targetting/ closed seaon, closed area) was to protect the species in this waterway so everyone can enjoy this great fish in our own backyard for years to come.

Now you have also seen the thread of a large Barra being caught in the same waterway. (A very very rare catch indead). Apparently this Barra was kept and eaten.

My qusetion is "Is it hypoctitical of the same persons wanting the threadies preserved and protected to keep such a large Barra that is definatelly a way more rare Catch?"

And 1 day before closed season.

[Davo_Dinkum]

bugger it i'm changing back to no comment.

[Travis]

Dont know what happened to it but it definately should have been returned?!?!?!?

[Travis]

Closed season kicked off midday sunday so it was legal to keep... i personally would have thrown it back as i dont eat that much fish

[Gad]

Very interesting question,shortie,

I was always told to let your conscience be your guide,funny thing everyones conscience seems to have a different guidance system.

My answer is simple...if it`s legal it`s your call,

but don`t forget some may catch many of these fish,others may only catch one in a season or two.

gad

[MoparKevUk]

If it's legal you can do what you want, but most people on here would surely have a moral stand point on this, and hopefully do the right thing.

This raises the bigger Q of; Is there any place in the fishing sphere for catch and release practitioners (of which I am one, I might add). Surely enticing a fish to have it's gob speared, then stressed out by the fight, hoiked out of it's natural environment, then flashed at by a camera whilst being held in a rough hand is wrong.....

But tremendous fun.

Catch and eat should be the way really.......

[brisbane_boy]

There is no closed season or max size limit on threadies, they are also not bred for dams.

Barra are protected by a 3 momth closed breeding season and max size limit. threadfin have nothing.

thredfin rely 100% on wild stock to reproduce for the future.

in context you can replace that barra, a threadfin cannot be replaced.

[nadders]

It is a good point and worthy of discussion but there are some flaws here

firstly, i dont think kevin even took part in the threadfin conservation debate

secondly, i personally would have released the barra had it been my catch, however it was not a decision made lightly and the reason it was decided to be kept was the extremely remotely small chance that barra are breeding in the river at all. its a known fact that there are alot of private dams in the logan system stocked with barra which consistantly overflow and release barra into the river, the fish on saturday looked like it had spent some time in the fresh (dark fins only just beginning to turn yellow) and we were (and still are) 99.9999999999999999999% sure this fish was a dam overflow that founds its way up here.

i'm not aware of any evidence of barra breeding in the logan river even though it is more or less "stocked" with private dam fish that overflow regularly

i dont think theres any evidence at all that barra are breeding in the river with basically one confirmed catch in the brisbane ever. but its a commonly known fact that threadfin are breeding in the river and we know their spawning season.

highlighting the legality or illegality of an action is not the point here either, the point is what the likely effect of an action is regardless of whether the legislators are aware of them.

[kiara_poltegerist]

lol.. why is this thread getting personal lol.. if no crime was committed, only an act that would be viewed by different persons with different values differently, what's the issue???

at this rate, we ought to have a list of suspect/guilty persons put up lol.

[nadders]

brisbane_boy wrote:

There is no closed season or max size limit on threadies, they are also not bred for dams.

Barra are protected by a 3 momth closed breeding season and max size limit. threadfin have nothing.

thredfin rely 100% on wild stock to reproduce for the future.

in context you can replace that barra, a threadfin cannot be replaced.

this is another point, that barra which was almost certainly a stocked fingerling from somewhere does not have any conservation implications for barra at all, however continual slaying of breeding size threadfin taken from their breeding aggregation, does have conservatoin implications.

Threadfin may not be a rare catch at the moment, but realise a 110+ fish is 6-7 years old, and these days the threadies are getting hit so so so so so much harder than they wer 6-7 years ago, i dont think they've been hit this hard in the brissy ever before. i bold texted at the moment because if the breeding aggregation keeps getting hit as hard as it is i will not be surprised at all if they got rarer and rarer and harder to find, that means nobody gets to enjoy the great fishery that we are lucky enough to have right now. theres only a small percentage of the population which are big females, and most of them are in the same spot getting flogged out of it while breeding. its doesnt take einsteins mind to put the puzzle together

[Cowfish13]

You know what else is hypocritical. People requesting others not to target Bass during the breeding season, just because it is the ethical thing to to. It is currently legal to target them (which, make no mistake, I think is ridiculous). Yet those same people slam others for requesting a similar thing, but with Threadfin Salmon in the river.

I didn't want to get drawn into this, but eh... It had to be said.

[nadders]

lol thanks for saying that cowfish i have been holding that one back. this topic antagonises people and i feel people don't appreciate my company and thoughts on the subject already, but coming from you hopefully it will hold more value. an excellent point

[brisbane_boy]

I agree nadders we have all caught huge thredfin, it was unreal, id recommend it to anyone.

Every breeder taken out is a nail in the coffin for the future of river salmon fishing, no one here likes to go fishing and donut, but that will be reality the way we are going IMO.

I released a couple of large breeders last wkend, I hope someone gets the same joy i did catching them.

[mick fillet]

well it is definitly with in the fisher persons right to keep the fish and if it were released how do we all know that it would have survived? It more than likely would have survived I reckon as is was stated the fight was not a big one due to the deep water it came from.On the other hand I bet it tastes bloody terrific being a salty.

Whats done is done and maybe the catch and kill could do more good than harm.what I mean is- if the fish frame were to be handed over to the DPI for research perposes more about the fish could be revealed eg.it was tank released or a true wild specimen and the age of the fish and research can even determine whether it has reproduced. This sort of information can only benifit us fishos as none of us know any thing about this one particular barra.

I personaly would like to know whether this barra has reproduced.I hope its not too late to donate the frame.

cheers mick

[Gad]

nadders wrote:

highlighting the legality or illegality of an action is not the point here either, the point is what the likely effect of an action is regardless of whether the legislators are aware of them.

[Feral]

Perhaps one should add the Estuary Cod in to the debate. Being as less than 60km away they are a no target no take "listed as endangered" species, yet most fisho's around Brisbane are quite happy to take them for the table?

At what point do we stop pointing the finger at each other?

[brisbane_boy]

The barra frame is being picked up by a fisheries scientist tomorrow morning.

I dont think that justifies anything but thats the state of things.

[nadders]

it has been donated to dpi&f scientists

and gad i agree with you, but its more likely to make a stronger case for the politicians if those with a vested interest are on the same page. and lets remember the original threadfin conservation post had no finger pointing in the start, was just an educational post about the habits of threadfin until people got defensive and took it the wrong way

[brisbane_boy]

Feral wrote:

Perhaps one should add the Estuary Cod in to the debate. Being as less than 60km away they are a no target no take "listed as endangered" species, yet most fisho's around Brisbane are quite happy to take them for the table?

At what point do we stop pointing the finger at each other?

Feral estry cod have a max size limit and are an every day catch from one end of qld to the other.

You are not comparing apples with apples.

[Cowfish13]

And Cod do not gather in large breeding aggregations like Bass and Threadfin do, which make them a harder target to max out your limit on. This is the basis of Nadders and brisbane_boy's argument.

[nadders]

yea, and estuary cod also don't congregate within a very small specific radius to breed lol

[fishingnut]

Cowfish13 wrote:

And Cod do not gather in large breeding aggregations like Bass and Threadfin do, which make them a harder target to max out your limit on. This is the basis of Nadders and brisbane_boy's argument.

great point there cowfish, this finger pointing business is never going to stop

[nadders]

yea, and estuary cod also don't congregate within a very small specific radius to breed lol

oops cowfish beat me to it. slow internet is awesome

[Malcolm]

I don't care much for the legal argument unless supported by some facts.

I would however take a big Thready for a feed no problems or guilt.

From my point of view I would do a hell of a lot less harm to the population taking one or two big fish here and there than those who catch and release hundreds per year as not all fish release well as we all know.

Lets not forget that most target fishing for a lot of species is done in season which is usually breeding time when the fish are active and hungry.

I look forward to future research and hopefully we will find that Thready breeding is going on in a lot more places in the river than at Boggy.

[mick fillet]

brisbane_boy wrote:

The barra frame is being picked up by a fisheries scientist tomorrow morning.

I dont think that justifies anything but thats the state of things.

oh thats good now we will know whether it has reproduced and if it has thats awesome and if it hasn't well who gives a rats no harm was done. either way I reckon Its a win win situation in the way of research.

[rastus]

i agree with feral in his other topic its not your line in the sane id someone else's

i would not vote to close off of any more fish. i think its more in the education as most people dont realise what they are doing and to say not to target them... same spots and same style of fishing as jew fish and from all the reports i read the big ones dont release all that well anyway that not to say i would not try.

also i think its bul$hitt to start a thread singling out a certain user on a broad topic.

[Feral]

I'm just suggesting as Cod are actually listed as endangered just 60k away, (unlike threadfin or bass), perhaps a comparison against the morality of taking of cod would be more valid than the barra. IE closer to "apples and apples" than the barra verses the threadie comparison. Not that either of those are endangered.

[rayke1938]

Cowfish13 wrote:

You know what else is hypocritical. People requesting others not to target Bass during the breeding season, just because it is the ethical thing to to. It is currently legal to target them (which, make no mistake, I think is ridiculous). Yet those same people slam others for requesting a similar thing, but with Threadfin Salmon in the river.

I didn't want to get drawn into this, but eh... It had to be said.

The BIG difference is that it is ILLEGAL to target bass during breeding season.

Cheers

Ray

[brisbane_boy]

Yeh feral threadfin are so endangered in nsw there isnt even 1, never seen evidence of a single catch.

I likle the max size on the cod rule I think its a smart idea, the same would benefit the brissy river threadfin, lets say 90cm max size.

[brisbane_boy]

rayke1938 wrote:

Cowfish13 wrote:

You know what else is hypocritical. People requesting others not to target Bass during the breeding season, just because it is the ethical thing to to. It is currently legal to target them (which, make no mistake, I think is ridiculous). Yet those same people slam others for requesting a similar thing, but with Threadfin Salmon in the river.

I didn't want to get drawn into this, but eh... It had to be said.

The BIG difference is that it is ILLEGAL to target bass during breeding season.

Cheers

Ray

It may take a change in law for thredfin before anyone realises there worth protecting.

[nadders]

why does something being written into legislation suddenly make it an issue when the moral implication is the same, and the circumstances are basically the same too?

[pinkey]

It's nice to think that Barra was a wild fish and a sign of things to come but it is the first fish of it's kind caught with evidence published so far so i guess there's a big chance it was a tank escape and the fisherman taking it legally shouldn't be looked upon harshly. Anyway I think something needs to be done about protecting threadfin in the Brisbane river for the future population of this species. I also believe it is true that the main problem is spots like the pipeline where fish are nothing short of sitting ducks, easy to catch and ready to be fished for and killed day in and out. The future fishing in the Brisbane river depends on how we manage it today and IMO something needs to be done to prevent the overfishing of this amazing sportfish.

[rayke1938]

As I have repeatedly stated in other threads if you are passionate about something start taking it to the community at large and lobbying your local member. Havent heard any complaints about the article on Threadies in the latest bush and beach or last plug on Nuggets fishing.

Trying to educate the relatively small numbers on this forum is a drop in the bucket.

Cheers

Ray

[brisbane_boy]

So whats your stance on the subject Ray, you are a very experienced and avid angler who does well.

What do you think the future holds.

We are thinking about starting a petition up a lot are keen, what side are you on here.

[Angus]

I refuse to gfet caught up in the he said, she said blah blah of this argument. It will go no where in the end but to annoy people. I do believe in sharing opinions (cilvily) as this is what the sites for.

In my honest, and certainly not overly educated opinion of the matter.

Based on what avid Pin Anglers say the oversize limit of flathead at the pin has massively improved the fishing.

I think based on the hugely escalating reports on Jew in the the river and local sorrounds this could also possibly be said of this species as well?

Anyway IF threadfin become breeders at a certain size (and the science seems to suggest this is so) I would be more than happy to see an over size limit placed on these species while there are a large population of them still there.

In my opinion this would only increase the number in the long run of sporting fish and eating fish for those that want them.

Once again. This is my opinion and not directed anywhere.

Cheers.

Angus

[nadders]

its funny you mention that ray as a petition for govnt research into the topic is currently in the works.

i don't read b&b or listen to am radio so i'm not sure what i should be complaining about

i have just been hopeful that he people who have the most vested interest might wish to do the right thing in the meantime, as i don't see anyhting changing law wise within a few years with the way red tape goes

[Whiskers]

This is allways going to be a touchy subject.

The law says ok.

Conservations says no.

What my problem is the amount of people on the forum who feel if the govermnent say it's ok, Well then it has to be ok?

This might ruffle some feathers but if you went and beat up Denis Fergousun (hope he forgives the misspeling of his name) You would be breaking the law? Come on guys you all want to

But I speak for all parents saying morally he should be whiped off the face of the planet.

If you park in the wrong place for a mesilly 5min you get fined! and you blokes who say if the law says it ok then its ok would be the first to blow up about it?

I know this is way off target but the core point is there are so many things we should be able to do but can't and things we shouldn't do but can.(Beating DF is an analagy only!!!!!)

In closing the government is no mesuring stick in my opinion they are money-power driven vampires and to use them as your get to sleep easy ticket is attrosious!

Common sense says if fish are fragile we should protect!

Not sure who's boat the barra was caught on but the skipper has final say period!

This absolutey freakish catch should have been realesed Unless it was past recovery or if it would pose threat to local stocks.

I'm cameron larner and that's my 2 cents

[Feral]

Your probably right on the time frame Nadders, Law was changed recently, bigger minimum size and lower bag limits. I doubt they will be interested in any further changes in the short term.

[ellicat]

Not too many cod breeders over 100cm B/boy - they're usually male.

Seems to make sense to put a slot limit on a lot of fish, but probably too early to make that call on threadies just yet IMO. Not sure of the impact of a threadie infestation/overpopulation in the river over the longer term. Would hope they didn't eat the sharks (who have exhausted their livers) out of all their tucker - imagine the pike eel explosion lol.

[brisbane_boy]

So whats the sense in not doing it, to save the sharks?

I always enjoy your posts LOL