Redclaw as Bait.

[rayke1938]

On another forum someone had a chop at me about using redclaw flesh as bait.

I was convinced that it was legal but decided to write to Deedi for an opinion. Here is a copy of their email.

Cheers

Ray

Mr Kennedy

You are correct, Live redclaw can only used for bait in areas of natural habitat,

( The following Qld river basins refer:

• Alice

• Archer

• Cliffdale

• Cloncurry

• Coen

• Coleman

• Dulhunty

• Edward

• Eight Mile

• Einasleigh

• Embley

• Flinders

• Gilbert

• Hann (with the river basin reference number 1050)

• Hann (with the river basin reference number 9102)

• Holroyd

• Jackson

• Jacky Jacky

• Jardine

• Kendall

• L Creek

• Leichardt

• Lockhart

• Mission

• Mitchell

• Morning

• Mornington Island

• Nicholson

• Norman

• Normanby

• Olive

• Palmer

• Pascoe

• Saxby

• Settlement

• Skardon

• Staaten

• Stewart

• Torres Strait Islands

• Walsh

• Watson

• Wenlock

The logic behind the move, was to prevent the proliferation of the species in other waterways.

You can use them as bait if they are dead. Many of the waterways in south queeensland have redclaw living in them, and some recerational fishers target them in dams to eat, which is good in a way as they are removed from the waterway.

[Brian D]

Not sure why you would bother using the flesh for bait anyway. Every time I tried it has come back untouched.

[robin]

Mate, you should have see the Gar that was hanging around the flesh yesterday.

[Do$tylz]

did you write back to that nob on the other forum that had a chop at you Ray??

[rayke1938]

Certainly did just put it up here as some info.Do you think that I should write to Deedi and ask same question re tilapia and carp. I know a few people who swear by carp flesh as snapper bait.

Cheers

Ray

[Lost it]

Not sure what waterway is out in the granite belt, but the locals out there swear by using small live redclaw and blues as bait. Bass and yellowbelly smash them apparently.

[Jimmyjack]

Certainly did just put it up here as some info.Do you think that I should write to Deedi and ask same question re tilapia and carp. I know a few people who swear by carp flesh as snapper bait.

Cheers

Ray

Know a bloke whoe tried carp flesh as bait and got abs nothing on it all day while the pillies weer getting hit. Can tell you now that if you use tilapia or euro's as bait DPI will nail you bigtime.

[elops]

Certainly did just put it up here as some info.Do you think that I should write to Deedi and ask same question re tilapia and carp. I know a few people who swear by carp flesh as snapper bait.

Cheers

Ray

If you read the legislation Ray the key phrase is "part thereof" cant have any part of either in your possession.

cheers

Steve

[craige1983]

I called the DPI fisheries up last year asking if i could use redclaw as bait, dead or alive and they said no, due to it being a pest in SE qld, so your not even allowed to throw them back if you don't want them.

[straddiebrad]

If it comes from a river or wherever you catch it, and if other people make money from it why shouldn't we use it as a bait? whether its carp or red-claw...

[crazywalrus]

Certainly did just put it up here as some info.Do you think that I should write to Deedi and ask same question re tilapia and carp. I know a few people who swear by carp flesh as snapper bait.

Cheers

Ray

If you read the legislation Ray the key phrase is "part thereof" cant have any part of either in your possession.

cheers

Steve

one question if you have a bottle of Charlie Carp for your garden I think you would be in breach under that definition.

[elops]

Certainly did just put it up here as some info.Do you think that I should write to Deedi and ask same question re tilapia and carp. I know a few people who swear by carp flesh as snapper bait.

Cheers

Ray

If you read the legislation Ray the key phrase is "part thereof" cant have any part of either in your possession.

cheers

Steve

one question if you have a bottle of Charlie Carp for your garden I think you would be in breach under that definition.

Produced in NSW, pretty sure they were licenced to make it initially.

As it is in a bottle and legaly purchased no problem.

With Carp now reclassified in NSW look out for more commercial products.

[Lost it]

Thought the subject for the thread was redclaw, not carp?

All good topics but

[crazywalrus]

it is red claw however the Author did introduce the carp and Tilapia. I understand what you are saying Steve however I think that the possession and part there of rule is ridiculous. I was merely stating that the rules are such that even a bottle of Charlie Carp makes u wonder. Under that logic you should be able to purchase Khoi carp in NSW and be able to keep them in Qld as they are legal in NSW. I am not trying to be difficult here merely trying to highlight the ridiculous rules. For me if it is dead it does not contravene the rules. I know that Tilapia can have brood in there mouths but I do not think they would survive very long. Interested to here your thoughts.

[elops]

Definately cant buy Koi in NSW and bring them back, noxious fish in QLD.

The different regulations for noxious fish in each state as well as the federal list is a nightmare of confusion.

IMO you should be allowed to keep Tilapia for the table if they are dead, in the US many states allow them to be kept if the head has been removed. Discussed this with the biologist currently in charge of pest fish at DEEDI, it comes back to the often quoted "Precautionary Principle" the blanket prohibition of possession is seen as the best way of stopping people spreading them. Has not worked so far though. Hard to put a time on how long fry will survive in the mouth, fry are no where near as hardy as adults though. Never caught a female with fry ever, most of the fish you catch on a line are male in my experience. Most likely they dont even feed when holding fry due to the way they filter algae to feed the fry(probably going to cop a lot of flak for stating this).

cheers

Steve

[Do$tylz]

^^ interesting info steve. Dunno why you'd cop flak?? you're just pointing out some of your own experiences.

It was interesting seeing tilapia in fish tanks in restuarants in Vancouver, Canada.

[Travis]

i suppose theyll have a crack at the minute amounts of phosphorus in chook pellets next some use in berley

[Luc53]

Have to agree, the 'precautionary principle' in regards to tilapia has not and will not work.

Flood events tend to ignore such principles and those who are happy & willing to introduce them into new water don't give a rat's in any case as the chance of being caught is negligible.

Luc

[crazywalrus]

Definately cant buy Koi in NSW and bring them back, noxious fish in QLD.

The different regulations for noxious fish in each state as well as the federal list is a nightmare of confusion.

IMO you should be allowed to keep Tilapia for the table if they are dead, in the US many states allow them to be kept if the head has been removed. Discussed this with the biologist currently in charge of pest fish at DEEDI, it comes back to the often quoted "Precautionary Principle" the blanket prohibition of possession is seen as the best way of stopping people spreading them. Has not worked so far though. Hard to put a time on how long fry will survive in the mouth, fry are no where near as hardy as adults though. Never caught a female with fry ever, most of the fish you catch on a line are male in my experience. Most likely they dont even feed when holding fry due to the way they filter algae to feed the fry(probably going to cop a lot of flak for stating this).

cheers

Steve

For me this horse has bolted. Tilapia are endemic to nearly every waterway that I know of in South East Queensland. I can understand the controls on transporting live fish however dead fish are another story. I agree I very much doubt that a female would be feeding with brood. If they wanted to control these fish or limit their numbers they would allow people to catch and eat them and also allow someone to commercially fish for these species. The current rules simply assure their spread.

[rayke1938]

Looks like they have to ban floods also. This is a press release on Deedi Website.

Pest fish on the move after floodingNews release | 02 March, 2011

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Pest fish such as tilapia and carp are likely to have moved into other waterways due to the recent flooding in Queensland.

Fisheries Queensland pest fish officer, Danielle Stewart said floodwaters typically provided opportunities for pest fish and other aquatic pests to expand their distribution.

"After the recent rain, the community needs to be on the lookout for species such as tilapia and carp that may have made their way into local waterways where they have not been found previously," Ms Stewart said.

"These pest fish species are the most invasive in Queensland and the most likely to have spread into other areas.

"Once pest fish such as tilapia and carp enter a flowing waterway they are almost impossible to eradicate. It is important to understand what these fish look like so they are not accidentally spread further.

"Tilapia are generally a deep-bodied fish with a thin profile. The best way to identify them is through their long pelvic (belly) fins - this feature is different from native fish as they typically have short pelvic fins.

"Another important feature is that the tilapia's dorsal (upper) fin starts directly above the gills and extends beyond the tail.

"Carp are often confused with goldfish but the easiest way to distinguish them is through the barbels (whiskers) on their upper lip.

"Carp also have large scales, a deeply forked tail and a single dorsal fin. They are usually a bronze or olive-gold colour, with a pale yellow or white colour on their sides and belly."

Ms Stewart said Fisheries Queensland relied on the community's help to identify and report pest fish species in new waterways so control measures could be activated before breeding populations establish.

"When reporting a sighting you should provide information such as date and location of sighting, description of fish, a photo (if possible) and a brief description of the waterway," she said.

"If you catch tilapia or carp you should not return the fish to the water and dispose of it immediately. Penalties of up to $200,000 apply for people found with pest fish in their possession.

"Tilapia are listed in the top 100 of the world's worst introduced pest species.

"Tilapia are prolific breeders and are able to survive in a variety of conditions. They affect native species by competing for habitat and food, behaving aggressively and disturbing aquatic vegetation.

"Carp can survive in a range of environmental conditions that native fish find difficult to cope with.

"Their feeding habits often result in muddied water and uprooted aquatic vegetation. This affects native species as muddy water means less light can penetrate the water. This results in reduced plant growth and lower oxygen levels, making it more difficult for native species to survive."

For more information or to report a pest fish sighting phone 13 25 23 or visit www.fisheries.qld.gov.au.

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CHeers

Ray

[ellicat]

Not to mention all the "new" species introduced out of fish tanks from flooded houses.

[Lost it]

That is exactly what the green generation want ray. They want anything 'normal' banned.

I disrespect a few laws cos the wording is nothing but something worse than what the law is trying to state....if that makes any sense at all? Probably not, but oh well.

I would use a redclaw for bait, if it was an egg bearing redclaw I would not if it was classed as a pest. The flesh of redclaw is of no threat so why can't just the flesh be used? If I catch a good tilapia I will be taking it home for human consumption so I know how they taste. The remains will be put into my garden as fertilser or in the bin to be dumped as landfill to generate gas for the so called "green" power at least 20km away from any water source. Much safer than putting it in the bin next to the water where it can escape and reproduce somehow. If I can get done for being in possession of a dead pest in my frypan, I can get done for being in possession of a live pest walking it to a non existant bin allocated for the elimination of pest species. Catfish (forktail) are a bloody big pest, where are the laws on them?

Just do it I reckon, use redclaw for bait (the little ones) and tilapia for the frypan. Lets do it. Bugger the poorly written laws.

[Luc53]

The press release on Deedi Website (Pest fish on the move after flooding News release, 02 March, 2011) does nothing for the control of tilapia & other ferals.

So they want us to be on the lookout and report. For what reason, nothing will be done about it other than Deedi noting another waterway invaded.

When I'm fishing NPD and catch redclaws & tilapias, I don't release any I don't want into the dam. If I did, what difference will that make, absolutely none. The biomass of claws & tillies in NPD would be huge, a few released back would make no difference.

It's too late, the horse has well and truly bolted. The only hope is some sort of biological control agent & I can't see Deedi earmarking any $$ for that.

Luc

[crazywalrus]

I agree the floor of NPD must be teaming with red claw. I do not think that the removal of a few caught by fisherman makes any difference. I suppose with Red Claw there is some value controlling the spread of them as a lot of waterways are not infested by them. The downside to Red Claw in a dam is that there is very little vegetation and weed banks as they will eat it. The strange thing with Red Claw is that everyone transports them alive.

I do not think there would be any biological control for red claw, tillys or carp. I really do not think there is any feasible control for these things. I agree with controlling the spread but I really think that at least in the sth east here that there should be some changes made to the regulations.