Another Tilapia species?

[tomca]

I have been fishing for Tilapia all over Brisbane for the last month and have been discussing some of my captures with a much loved site sponsor who originates from over the bigger ditch (Efrica).

So DPI list two types of Tilapia as pests. The O. mozambica which I have found around PRP and Forest Lake in big numbers, here is a male of the species and the females are silver to olive green. The juveniles look like smaller versions of the:

The other species is listed as T. mariae and the climate in Brisbane is too extreme for their survival so not found here according to the DPI:
/>http://www.google.com.au/imgres?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=guv&sa=X&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1280&bih=861&tbm=isch&tbnid=bZFLQ4S82_B4nM:&imgrefurl=http://www.kidsfishing.org/fishid.html&docid=zVSqM88iyF5hGM&imgurl=http://www.kidsfishing.org/images/spottedtilapia.jpg&w=610&h=338&ei=TTCzUOGBJYmDiQeH9oDAAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=203&vpy=312&dur=4943&hovh=167&hovw=302&tx=182&ty=96&sig=101996439845113992184&page=1&tbnh=130&tbnw=259&start=0&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0,i:103

I have been finding a lot of these around:

and they are much more aggressive and attack lures with gusto. Rob thinks they may be Oreochromis niloticus and judging by wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilapia_nilolica) it might be a third species. Any aquarium enthusiasts have input about this? If he's right I better take some clearer pics and send them through to the DPI

[fishingnut]

Elops will know, hes a walking wiki fish expert

[Zim man]

If that is the niloticus species then the grand daddy of pests has arrived. They where introduced to zim and are now in most waterways ( took less than a decade) and they interbreed with everything and eat anything and everything. I have caught them on cranks, lipless vibes, and even 6 inch plastic lizards whilst bass fishing. The good news is that they grow to over 20 pounds and taste great

[ellicat]

Uglyotis barstardoca

[Surfingant]

Where's Elops?

[T Fisher]

I have been working in a few parks along kedron brook lately and have been seeing a lot of pale coloured tilapia with bright red strip along the top of the dorsal fin. Especially along Mercer park. And also kalinga park .

[tomca]

T Fisher,those pale ones go black when hooked and when landed and show a more pronounced red edge, I've caught plenty around that side of town and southside. Smaller ones of those are just miniature versions. The ones in the bottom pic are different to look at, different colour, different shape and much more aggressive.

[tomca]

Still have not heard from DAFF about it so sent the on line form again today. Bit of time to kill, so had a search on youtube and found this one. Looks to me like a bigger version of the mystery fish.
/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9u_Mb75Lqk

[JarrydA]

I saw a couple of these amongst the other species the other day out at wello tom. Couldnt hook the buggers tho!

[tomca]

In the lake?

The bigger ones are pretty wised up to fisherman, bloody frustrating seeing them look at your juicy worm and then swim off Oh Golly Gosh !!!

[fishingnut]

Hand spear ?

[tomca]

Beau,

you are not suggesting promotion of an illegal activity on AFO are you? :ohmy:

Elliclown, quick! Moderate his post

That lake is brackish???? so you are only 50% naughty for suggesting spearing?????

Ruling on this please Brian :evil:

[crazywalrus]

yeah I reckon bow hunting would be the go.

[tomca]

Ban Ted too while you are at it.

Bow fishing is deemed the same as spear fishing, not allowed in inland or non tidal waters.

Pity, there should be an exemption for targeting tilapia and carp, but there isn't so bye bye Ted :pinch:

[fishingnut]

Really never knew that, pehaps I prepare my self for a thorough spanking from bobby

[tomca]

yep, you can use platypus traps to catch redclaw, but can't spear a carp tailing on the surface, go figure

[crazywalrus]

Pity, there should be an exemption for targeting tilapia and carp, but there isn't so bye bye Ted :pinch:

Really I thought it was legal, not that I have a bow anyway. it should be allowed for pest fish but than again how would you police it.

[tomca]

walking around suburban parks with a speargun or compound bow would probably have the police policing you pretty quick I would imagine. Then again, fishing around Inala I would probably feel better that way than armed with my light bream rod :blush:

[tomca]

So I got a response from DAFF and it is just a generic thank you:

Hello Tom,

Thank you for contacting Fisheries Queensland regarding tilapia at Pine Rivers Park. Tilapia have been knowingly established in the Pine River catchment for many decades, resulting from illegal releases into local waterways. Once a pest fish becomes established in a large open waterway they are impossible to eradicate. Management is extremely expensive and resource intensive and struggles to reduce pest fish numbers long term. Established populations in a catchment result in the reinvasion of partially isolated areas during times of flood. People also frequently (and illegally) move pest fish between waterbodies.

Fisheries Queensland focus its resources on providing education to communities of the risks associated with pest fish, as well as increase their capacity to help with the problem. Ecologically significant catchments still remain tilapia free, including the Murray-Darling Basin, Lake Eyre Basin and the Gulf. Current work focuses on reducing the risk that these fish will be translocated by humans to unaffected catchments through community education.

Thank you again for reporting tilapia. Please do not hesitate to contact me further if you require any more information.

Dani

[Surfingant]

Awesome computer generated response

[Zim man]

Awesome computer generated response

that was a perfect politicians response. reply and tell them to pay attention and read your original query

[stinkyibis]

My interpretation of their reply is that they know of the problem, they don't care and don't have enough resources to investigate or do anything in response to any tilapia threats of this nature, they even highlight the fact there are still some catchments actually left that are still worth saving so they'll just concentrate on teaching people to not put tilapia in them. Nice. The response is insulting when you consider the effort and concern you've put in. Harass them.

[tomca]

So I sent a reply making it a bit clearer that their species identification may be questionable and attached photo's of the Mozambic Mouthbrooder and what looks like a Nile Tilapia from Lake Victoria and here is the response:

Hey Tom,

We have done a bit of genetic work on these guys and identified a few different genetic populations in the original animals that were illegally released into the wild. So we do see huge colour and shape variations around Qld and even within the SE. But a lot depends on the conditions that the fish have found themselves in. If they have been isolated in poor conditions and stunted for a long period they will also look a different shape than others that grew quickly and started to reproduce at the normal age. For me the differences are particularly evident in the males. All of those photos are what I normally see in O.mossambicus around the place. O.niloticus can be seen in a few shops for sale around the place, imported from overseas. None in the wild in Australia that I know of, hopefully it stays that way

Cheers,

Dani

According to wiki the O. niloticus can handle temp ranges as low as 8 degrees and google pictures of them look suspiciously like the ones I have been catching, and if thats the case Rob might be doing a bit of this in Oz and won't need to go home to Zim for them

Rob's african Tilapia

My Aussie Tilapia

[benno573]

Last I checked "fishing" with a bow is illegal in Queensland full stop? I know it is very popular in the states for carp.

Love the DPI response in the first email, blah blah blah bugdet concerns blah blah don't call here again.

Although it is positive that there is none known to the DPI in the wild in Qld, this does leave us to rely on the DPI's knowledge, which, in my experience, is at times not all that comprehensive.

They once tried to ping Jeff F and I for undersized "spangled emperor" for some 40cm long grassies we had, assuring us that they had to be spangled emperor as grassies didn't grow that big...

I would get a dorsal spine count and an anal spine count on the ones you catch and compare it to the ones in the photo we know are the nastier ones, i make it to be 16 or 17 in the photo below from Zim and from your photo (while it is hard with them lying down) I think there may only be 14. If this is consistently the case they most likely are different species.

[aussie123]

I'd agree that the small fish is very badly stunted.

[Do$tylz]

did you have to strike as hard as rob to set the hooks on your fish?

[ellicat]

Last I checked "fishing" with a bow is illegal in Queensland full stop? I know it is very popular in the states for carp.

Love the DPI response in the first email, blah blah blah bugdet concerns blah blah don't call here again.

Although it is positive that there is none known to the DPI in the wild in Qld, this does leave us to rely on the DPI's knowledge, which, in my experience, is at times not all that comprehensive.

They once tried to ping Jeff F and I for undersized "spangled emperor" for some 40cm long grassies we had, assuring us that they had to be spangled emperor as grassies didn't grow that big...

I would get a dorsal spine count and an anal spine count on the ones you catch and compare it to the ones in the photo we know are the nastier ones, i make it to be 16 or 17 in the photo below from Zim and from your photo (while it is hard with them lying down) I think there may only be 14. If this is consistently the case they most likely are different species.

Also, Tonca's looks faster

[elops]

O. mossambicus and O.nilotocus hybridise :whistle:

[Bommie]

Last I checked "fishing" with a bow is illegal in Queensland full stop? I know it is very popular in the states for carp.

Love the DPI response in the first email, blah blah blah bugdet concerns blah blah don't call here again.

Although it is positive that there is none known to the DPI in the wild in Qld, this does leave us to rely on the DPI's knowledge, which, in my experience, is at times not all that comprehensive.

They once tried to ping Jeff F and I for undersized "spangled emperor" for some 40cm long grassies we had, assuring us that they had to be spangled emperor as grassies didn't grow that big...

I would get a dorsal spine count and an anal spine count on the ones you catch and compare it to the ones in the photo we know are the nastier ones, i make it to be 16 or 17 in the photo below from Zim and from your photo (while it is hard with them lying down) I think there may only be 14. If this is consistently the case they most likely are different species.

Bow fishing comes under the same law as spearfishing

[benno573]

There you go, I learnt something today. Funny looking spear though...

[NightShadow]

Whats the laws on using a sling shot? seen a couple of fellas smashing a few carp the other day. Looked like fun :cheer:

[elops]

This is O.mossambicus tomca, Lance is right it is stunted. sub adult male.

Never seen a niloticus in Aus not even in an aquarium.

Have seen hybrid mossambicus/niloticus in Asia, common in aquaculture.