2013 Moreton Bay Classic - Teaser and Input

[Angus]

Well many things about the MBC are soon to be firmed up...

HQ Venue

Exact Date

Price

Etc

However in one thing I would like input from members... The species list...

It has already be decided, partly due to the success of the Summer Classic this year and partly due to the plethora of fish the bay has to offer to use the Summer Classic format. This being having a list of fish and competing for 1st, 2nd, 3rd in overall length of as many species as an angler can catch combined.

The idea if the reward the versatility of an angler vs the ability to catch "one big fish". It also suits our bay greatly as each year there are some stunning fish caught that do not feature on the list...

So here is your chance to have a say on what fish make the list for 2013. There is no absolute limit of numbers but I was thinking 20 would be enough... Am I wrong?

To help choose species the rough concept for the comp will be late July, thus making it our primary winter event. This is another good reason why I am seeking advice as I do not claim to be an expert in what is hitting in the bay well in that time frame.

My thought on species:

Mackerel (all species)

Yellow Tail Kings

Trevally (all species)

Snapper/Squire

Grassy Sweetlip

Tailor

Bream

Whiting

Flathead

Estuary Cod

Squid (hood length)

Moses Perch

Cobia

Long Tail Tuna

Mack Tuna

Bonito

Jewfish

Dart

Flounder

Grinner

What have I missed?

I would like to more or less keep it to likely captures as opposed to "I heard a guy caught one of these once" type species...

Cheers.

Angus

[rayke1938]

Shark>

Cheers

Ray

[ONTHECHEW]

Mackerel (all species)

King fish (all species) includes cobia

Trevally (all species)

Tuna (all species)

Shark (all species)

Cod (all species)

Snapper/Squire

Grassy Sweetlip/ Spangled Emperor

Tailor

Bass

Parrot/Tusk Fish

Bream

Whiting

Flathead

Squid (hood length)

Moses Perch

Jewfish

Dart

Flounder

Grinner

Just my thoughts, combining a few separate species together under one subsection. For theses species listed with (all species) only the longest fish caught from this family of fish, otherwise could lead to confusion when judging depending on quality of photo.

** on a side note, about time you came over to the dark side ray :woohoo: :woohoo: I like the new avatar

[Angus]

Fair call Andrew. That works on another level as well as I would ultimately like to have enough non pelagic species available to still leave the possibility of someone chasing the smaller inshore additions on the list a fair chance.

In saying that while there are a lot of "longer" species there, it would be rare to see a report where someone has gone out and brained a mack, tuna, kingy, big trev all in one session.

Angus

[kmcrosby78]

Threadies? Not sure whether this comp allows us to fish the pipeline area but they have been caught around Shorncliffe since the floods.

[ONTHECHEW]

Angus,

I think limiting the amount of one per species of the longer fish, will even the playing field a little bit. Someone could go out get a decent mack tuna, bonito, long tail and smash everyone. This would still allow someone to chase say a tuna, mackerel and a kingfish and still do very well.

Could be some very decent lengths with this list, 10m would not be out of the question, just thought with one fish per family of fish would also make it easier and quicker for judging, as well as a lot less fish being needed taken out for photos etc for anglers.

Andrew

[pancakes_and_haggis]

Mackerel (all species)

King fish (all species) includes cobia

Trevally (all species)

Tuna (all species)

Shark (all species)

Cod (all species)

Snapper/Squire

Grassy Sweetlip/ Spangled Emperor

Tailor

Bass

Parrot/Tusk Fish

Bream

Whiting

Flathead

Squid (hood length)

Moses Perch

Jewfish

Dart

Flounder

Grinner

Just my thoughts, combining a few separate species together under one subsection. For theses species listed with (all species) only the longest fish caught from this family of fish, otherwise could lead to confusion when judging depending on quality of photo.

** on a side note, about time you came over to the dark side ray :woohoo: :woohoo: I like the new avatar

Sounds like a good list,

I've seen a few good bass pulled from the rous channel :woohoo:

[Angus]

Oh so the new sponsors prize of a free Hervey Bay charter will be a lucky door prize for this event as well

We will have a decent emphasis on lucky door prizes as well to encourage entrants that might not be pedagogically geared

I am thinking of a longest random species as well. The name of all the fish dropped in a hat and one pulled out. The longest of that species wins a prize. This way that winner may be way down the list of points, but luck onto still get something.

[ONTHECHEW]

Mackerel (all species)

King fish (all species) includes cobia

Trevally (all species)

Tuna (all species)

Shark (all species)

Cod (all species)

Snapper/Squire

Grassy Sweetlip/ Spangled Emperor

Tailor

Bass

Parrot/Tusk Fish

Bream

Whiting

Flathead

Squid (hood length)

Moses Perch

Jewfish

Dart

Flounder

Grinner

Just my thoughts, combining a few separate species together under one subsection. For theses species listed with (all species) only the longest fish caught from this family of fish, otherwise could lead to confusion when judging depending on quality of photo.

** on a side note, about time you came over to the dark side ray :woohoo: :woohoo: I like the new avatar

Sounds like a good list,

I've seen a few good bass pulled from the rous channel :woohoo:

Callum,

Put that one in as a sneaky one, see if anyone read the whole list. But if you looked out your window lately, wouldn't be out of the question to get a bass in the bay at the moment with so much fresh, and there is only more to come.

Andrew

[Angus]

Lucky door prizes now stand:

Weekend @ Clear Mountain Lodge, inclusive of breakfasts, 2 course dinner, chocolates and bubbly courtesy of the manager (Gregpen on AFO). A good one to convince the Mrs to let you enter

Full days sports fishing with Andrew Chorley (chozza on AFO) from Hervey Bay Fly & Sportfishing.

[aussie123]

This format of the longest length is a great way for a comp to run with .

It's very similar to the ANSA comps that I grew up with where the more species you can catch the better you will do.

It sure does sort out who the better overall fishermen are against the species specialist fishermen.

Unfortunately though to run this format in the bay with the species you have listed you may as well delete the shore fishermen from the comp.

I think you would need to tweak the rules or prizes to also cater for the bank fisho's otherwise you might suffer a bit with entries into the comp.

Now don't get me wrong,it is a great format and a great species list but it really is a boating comp format only.

[tomca]

This format of the longest length is a great way for a comp to run with .

It's very similar to the ANSA comps that I grew up with where the more species you can catch the better you will do.

It sure does sort out who the better overall fishermen are against the species specialist fishermen.

Unfortunately though to run this format in the bay with the species you have listed you may as well delete the shore fishermen from the comp.

I think you would need to tweak the rules or prizes to also cater for the bank fisho's otherwise you might suffer a bit with entries into the comp.

Now don't get me wrong,it is a great format and a great species list but it really is a boating comp format only.

There are plenty of shore and jetties around the bay to be in with a fair chance of most of those species. We have caught most of those species landbased around Dunwich and Same goes for Moreton. It won't break the bank to spend a few dollars on a ferry to any of the bay islands and have a go, even rent a yak at Tangalooma and fish the wrecks.

[Angus]

Lance I agree that it may restrict the shore based, but to be honest I reckon shore based anglers have made up an almost non existent percent of the past few years entrants...

Also i do not think there is anything wrong with having a comp "for" the boat and kayak community. I could be wrong?

Hopefully there will be plenty of deckie spots up for grabs for the non boaters

[aussie123]

Why not look at using a most species caught comp format out of the list as that will give everyone an equal footing.

The overall longest length could then be used to determine a draw if 2 or more people end up with the same species count.

Basically near the same format as it is now without using the overall length to decide the winners unless their is a draw.

I don't know what the boundaries are going to be but if the lower section of the Brissy River was included it would let the shore based anglers and families that may want to enter have a real good crack at competing against the boats who will be targeting fish that are 1m plus.

The format doesn't worry me the way it is as I would be fishing from a boat anyway if I fished it but it would be nice to see a format that caters for everyone and puts everyone on an equal footing.

It's just another option to look at.

[crazywalrus]

I think this style of format is very interesting. I do agree with Lance a little. The effect of requiring a boat to compete will be effected by the length of the comp. A weekend comp will have less effect and a week long comp will greatly increase the impact.

Maybe a landbased and yak subsection and prize may work well.

I have fished 3 now and I agree most of the entrants have been boat fishos.

Fish like Sharks will have less effect now with the ruling on undersized and over sized fish.

Looking forward to this - hope we get a great roll up like the summer classic.

[dassa]

I think this style of format is very interesting. I do agree with Lance a little. The effect of requiring a boat to compete will be effected by the length of the comp. A weekend comp will have less effect and a week long comp will greatly increase the impact.

Maybe a landbased and yak subsection and prize may work well.

I have fished 3 now and I agree most of the entrants have been boat fishos.

Fish like Sharks will have less effect now with the ruling on undersized and over sized fish.

Looking forward to this - hope we get a great roll up like the summer classic.

Now I know this is going to up set a few fisho's BUT I DON'T THINK sharks should be a species and lance as far as target fisherman a single 10 foot shark is a fare head start and would take a lot of people out of the comp that don't take or even target sharks.Keep it a fish species and take sharks out af the comp and keep it on an even keel.As far as land bases fisho's go they couls keep an eye open for decky spot's that will help them no end.

My 2bob's worth

Great work by the AFO team agian LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS as I have misses a few comps of late

[crazywalrus]

I think this style of format is very interesting. I do agree with Lance a little. The effect of requiring a boat to compete will be effected by the length of the comp. A weekend comp will have less effect and a week long comp will greatly increase the impact.

Maybe a landbased and yak subsection and prize may work well.

I have fished 3 now and I agree most of the entrants have been boat fishos.

Fish like Sharks will have less effect now with the ruling on undersized and over sized fish.

Looking forward to this - hope we get a great roll up like the summer classic.

Now I know this is going to up set a few fisho's BUT I DON'T THINK sharks should be a species and lance as far as target fisherman a single 10 foot shark is a fare head start and would take a lot of people out of the comp that don't take or even target sharks.Keep it a fish species and take sharks out af the comp and keep it on an even keel.As far as land bases fisho's go they couls keep an eye open for decky spot's that will help them no end.

My 2bob's worth

Great work by the AFO team agian LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS as I have misses a few comps of late

This would have been the case Dazza in previous comps however the ruling on undersize and oversized fish has been clarified and they are not allowed to be entered. I think shark is appropriate as it gives the landbased fish a chance to catch a fish that will add a lot to their to a total length.

[Manni79]

you're never going to appease the masses and I don't see nay problem with the proposed target list.'

Having the setup as the summer classic over a couple days and overall length of caught fish evens out the playing field. Guys in yaks will still have a good chance at getting a good haul and non boaters if they are really keen will just need to plan more carefully to target locations as mentioned by Tom.

Or you have a fee that is adjusted i.e. 20 for boaters/yaks and 10 bucks if landbased

[samsteele115]

Hmmm to put my hand up as a decky and get a good crack at the bay for my first time offshore, or head out on my 15hp tinny targeting the smaller species around the estuaries :whistle:

Do estuaries/rivers count btw or is it bay only?

[bootyinblue]

Why not look at using a most species caught comp format out of the list as that will give everyone an equal footing..

Lance... are you meaning once you have caught a species off the list its a 'point' and you cant count another of the same species again or you can catch multiple of the one species?

So you would have a score of 15/20 possible fish caught if only counted once?

I like both ideas, but would swing towards the total length formula as it rewards in more way than just quantity, but also in quality.

[crazywalrus]

The Total length worked really well in the Summer Classic however the species list and conditions meant that is was a pretty open comp. The species list as it stands for the MBC has a lot of very large fish that on the right day could make it impossible for a shore based or yak fisho to compete with a boat. I am a boat fisho so it will not effect me but Lance's species count has some merit as well as this would dramatically change the way you target the comp. Both have merits maybe a combination of the two but I do not know how that would work.

The miscellaneous fish in other comps i think has worked well with the length and sports fish multiplier.

To answer your question Greg the suggestions was for one fish from each species to count towards the score and to have the combined length of the fish to determine between anglers if there was a tie.

[aussie123]

Why not look at using a most species caught comp format out of the list as that will give everyone an equal footing..

Lance... are you meaning once you have caught a species off the list its a 'point' and you cant count another of the same species again or you can catch multiple of the one species?

So you would have a score of 15/20 possible fish caught if only counted once?

I like both ideas, but would swing towards the total length formula as it rewards in more way than just quantity, but also in quality.

I would suggest only one of each species to be entered Greg.

Length would be irrelevant unless their is a tie at the final weigh in.

To me it takes a far greater skill to find and catch say 10 different species than it is to sit on a school of fish and catch 10 upgrades.

Once you have a number of species under your belt that you are happy with,then you can go and use the rest of the time to try and upgrade some species in case of a tie.

This format would allow all species including sharks as someone off the bank who catches a 600mm shark is equal to someone getting a 3m shark.

If overall length was part of deciding things the way the concept is being proposed at present,the bigger boat anglers get a clear advantage,especially if there is a bit of weather around and they can still reach the northern bay or places like Amity and the deeper channels for longies ect..

Just a species count suits the shore anglers,the smaller tinnies who can only safely fish the river,the walls out the front and close in places like mud island.

I think this overall length concept in a place like the Noosa River is great because it is accessible and fish able for all species from the shore and by boat so everyone is basically equal .

The bay though is a very different situation which is why I think it could be looked at a bit differently.

[ONTHECHEW]

I think everyone is making this far too complicated, I have devised a simple equation that will be fair to every one -

Total length of fish \ number of species + 20 points if on land \ cost of fuel X height of angler \ age of angler - how many grinners you catch x barometric pressure / depth of the water you fished in - 100 points if you use frozen bait + 100 points if it is a pb / 10000 if you say "thats what I am talking about or say your name in 3rd person"

This should be a quick and easy format for judging and anglers alike :whistle: :whistle:

[bootyinblue]

Yep... I am sold on the quantity concept now.

Catch a 30cm flathead = 1 point, then you have to make a decision do you bank that and move on to another area to target another species or hang around hoping to upgrade knowing that its still only worth 1 point but the length might get you over the line if you tie at the end with someone else on 10/20 possible fish.

Adds diversity and a mix of fishing styles to the equation.

[tacklebox]

Grinner

what about pike, catfish and sea toads etc? just kidding. I say stick with regulated fish.

[Angus]

Grinner

That is a good point. I had put grinners as a bit of a relevent Moreton Bay joke i guess.

But regulated fish is a good idea.

what about pike, catfish and sea toads etc? just kidding. I say stick with regulated fish.

[Manni79]

Yep... I am sold on the quantity concept now.

Catch a 30cm flathead = 1 point, then you have to make a decision do you bank that and move on to another area to target another species or hang around hoping to upgrade knowing that its still only worth 1 point but the length might get you over the line if you tie at the end with someone else on 10/20 possible fish.

Adds diversity and a mix of fishing styles to the equation.

The concept is worth considering but the original proposed format seemed to work last event and had positive feedback.

People who may chase Tuna as we know they can be tough buggers to catch and a whole day could be spent landing nothing or even only a small 60/70cm tuna, the same applies to Mackerel you're more likely to catch a 50/60cm fish and may take many hours, i've seen people donut from a whole day jigging the beacons haha - meanwhile others could have landed a flatty, bream, snapper, jew, etc in a morning session and be way out in front.

Overall length is a good way forward it allows for just as much strategy - the lure of big fish in the bay could be the down fall of some anglers or may pay off but it can be anyone's game

[Binder]

Simplest would be a Pelagic, Reef and estuary field?

Otherwise nominate 5 species for best bag limit - eg best 10 bream, best 5 flathead, best 4 squire, best 30 whiting, best other regulated species (all else goes in this field, bag limit 5, cant exceed bag limit, EG, only able to enter one shark in the group of 5) for the chosen species. Allowed to count anything 3cm each side of legal limits (as you have to them on the mat to measure the close ones anyway)

Then have an overall grand champion of the field, total length, but you must have caught one in every field! Makes people think and work a bit harder. Be good to see the pelagic boys in their 6m offshore boats desperately trying to catch a humble whiting in the last hour of the comp!

[crazywalrus]

Grinner

That is a good point. I had put grinners as a bit of a relevent Moreton Bay joke i guess.

But regulated fish is a good idea.

what about pike, catfish and sea toads etc? just kidding. I say stick with regulated fish.

haha I like the Grinner in it. Tuna are not regulated fish in Qld, well there is no size or bag on them.

[dassa]

Grinner

That is a good point. I had put grinners as a bit of a relevent Moreton Bay joke i guess.

But regulated fish is a good idea.

what about pike, catfish and sea toads etc? just kidding. I say stick with regulated fish.

haha I like the Grinner in it. Tuna are not regulated fish in Qld, well there is no size or bag on them.

That is because you are the grinner KING maybe you should call the tub GRINNER not walrus LOL as that was the first fish caught in the boat AND BY YOURSELF

[kmcrosby78]

I reckon count one fish per species (ie. if you catch two snapper, you only count the bigger of the two)and make it longest combined length wins. I then think you'd need to have two separate prizes/prize pools - one for those fishing from a boat and one for those landbased. The bigger boats in theory would have an advantage but a switched on smaller boat owner who could snag a half decent snapper, flathead, tailor and a longtail/mack tuna would be on his way to a decent score - which would be achievable (probably not by me but for switched on tinny owners who know their spots) over the course of a weekend.

[Dubbzy]

Simplest would be a Pelagic, Reef and estuary field?

Otherwise nominate 5 species for best bag limit - eg best 10 bream, best 5 flathead, best 4 squire, best 30 whiting, best other regulated species (all else goes in this field, bag limit 5, cant exceed bag limit, EG, only able to enter one shark in the group of 5) for the chosen species. Allowed to count anything 3cm each side of legal limits (as you have to them on the mat to measure the close ones anyway)

Then have an overall grand champion of the field, total length, but you must have caught one in every field! Makes people think and work a bit harder. Be good to see the pelagic boys in their 6m offshore boats desperately trying to catch a humble whiting in the last hour of the comp!

That's the idea! More people would have a crack at this style comp, but in regards to the list, parrot / tuskies should be on the list for a July comp

[Angus]

Guys some great feedback here and all ideas are being looked at. However just remember this was a request for species more so than format...

Manni: I tend to agree with you mate... Yes Tuna are bigger... But are a damn tough fish to catch by most in the bay. Someone could easily waste a date chasing birds while another puts together an awesome bag from shallow reefs like wello etc.

Dubbzy: So mate (excuse my ignorance) but tuskies and parrots are not around in July?

[The Mad Hughesy]

I like the idea. Inside the bay holds some monsters as well as outside. Last time I fished the wall at the port I hooked onto a easy 80cm+ Mack tuna on a liveie meant for a snapper. There was no sign of tuna anywhere, it came out of nowhere.

So at this stage, is it one fish per species?

[Angus]

Yeah regardless of what else happens it was alway going to be one fish per species, obviously your longest for that species.

[chrislocke]

Sounds fun! Just wondering what will happen if the wind blows up making it impossible for smaller craft to target such species?

[benno573]

being in july, i would strongly suggest adding tuskies to the list.

I would not be a fan of the "number of species" method, it is not hard to grab a bag of prawns and sit over a shallow reef and catch 20 different species in a short space of time.

i think the total length of a selection of regulated (or at least not rubbish) fish is the way forward. I would like to see a "random species" such that the angler may land, for example, a slatey bream, which can then be entered under the "random species" category. this could also be used for grinner, pike etc if the angler wanted to enter them and cop the shame... I reckon if a rule was made regarding what is eligible for the random species (i.e. no eels, sharks, rays etc) that would keep it fair - an 8ft pike eel would create a slight skew in the results.

my thoughts:

Snapper

Grassy

Spangled Emperor

Bream/tarwhine

Whiting (any species)

estuary cod

Jewfish

Mack Tuna

Other Tuna

Bonito

Cobia

Mackeral (all species)

Trevally

Tusky

Moses perch

Dusky Flathead

Flounder

Tailor

Yellowtail Kingie

"random species"

[crazywalrus]

I would not be a fan of the "number of species" method, it is not hard to grab a bag of prawns and sit over a shallow reef and catch 20 different species in a short space of time.

I agree that would be the case however you would need to catch a legal fish in each species to be eligible. This would be a big ask on most days.

[benno573]

I would not be a fan of the "number of species" method, it is not hard to grab a bag of prawns and sit over a shallow reef and catch 20 different species in a short space of time.

I agree that would be the case however you would need to catch a legal fish in each species to be eligible. This would be a big ask on most days.

not really when the majority of what you catch is not regulated and has no size limit... several of the suggested species above do not have size limits, tuna, trevally, diver whiting etc.

angus - does a fish only qualify as part of the overall length if it is of legal size should one exist or does CnR of an undersized fish still count?

[crazywalrus]

I would not be a fan of the "number of species" method, it is not hard to grab a bag of prawns and sit over a shallow reef and catch 20 different species in a short space of time.

I agree that would be the case however you would need to catch a legal fish in each species to be eligible. This would be a big ask on most days.

not really when the majority of what you catch is not regulated and has no size limit... several of the suggested species above do not have size limits, tuna, trevally, diver whiting etc.

angus - does a fish only qualify as part of the overall length if it is of legal size should one exist or does CnR of an undersized fish still count?

At the Summer Classic the ruling was cleared up. Only legal fish are eligible. Therefore undersized or oversized fish are not to be entered.