queensland Back To Schoolies

[Old Scaley]

Mr @Drop Bear and I went in search of a feed of calamari today. We left Wynnum in Robbie’s boat around dawn and motored across the Bay in pretty good conditions just as the sun came up over The horizon. Another good start to the day, not too cold and not a lot of breeze.

 

The plan was to hit an area where @Drop Bear has been having some success. After a nice run we arrived and started a drift. The squid were playing hide and seek, and they were better at hiding than we were at seeking. So much so that we didn’t didn’t see a single tentacle.

@Drop Bear decided to float a pillie out the back under a float, and it wasn’t long before the float took off and after a short fight a nice school Mack was in the esky. So plan A quickly became plan B and we had a fun little session, pulling in 8 before the small packet of pillies ran out. We did get a couple on hard bodies as well, but the bait was the most successful.

The wind was stronger than expected and once the tide turned we had wind against tide making for less than ideal planing. We had always planned to do some trolling of spoons on paravanes for Mack’s, so we trolled all the way back to just off St Helena. Robbie did his best to dethrone @kmcrosby78 as the Grinner King of Moreton Bay, catching several on the troll, but we didn’t see another schoolies. We did a bit of sounding around east of St Helena and dropped a few baits (just fillets of whiptails we caught earlier) on some promising territory outside the green zone. We had bites, but the only fish landed was a couple of small squire.

Time to head home after another great day on Moreton Bay. Here is dinner on the cleaning table.

Thanks again, Robbie. It is great to be back fishing with mates again.

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

G'day Old Scaley

That is a marvellous session you had there, great job to you and Drop Bear on the mackies. I am actually a bit embarrassed now because I showed this to my dad and he couldn't tell me what they were so I am going to make him read a section in a fishing book on fish species . As well as that, that session alone tops the last 4 or 5 sessions I've had... LOL. 

Shame the squid weren't out to play, hopefully next time. Do you think you could've caught more if you had more pillies?

Cheers Hamish  

[ellicat]

Sounds like plan B was the winner again. You're a glutton for the opposite of punishment (whatever that word is).

[Old Scaley]

30 minutes ago, AUS-BNE-FISHO said:

G'day Old Scaley

That is a marvellous session you had there, great job to you and Drop Bear on the mackies. I am actually a bit embarrassed now because I showed this to my dad and he couldn't tell me what they were so I am going to make him read a section in a fishing book on fish species . As well as that, that session alone tops the last 4 or 5 sessions I've had... LOL. 

Shame the squid weren't out to play, hopefully next time. Do you think you could've caught more if you had more pillies?

Cheers Hamish  

  Pretty sure we would have hit our bag (5 each) if we had more pillies. 

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

2 minutes ago, Old Scaley said:

  Pretty sure we would have hit our bag (5 each) if we had more pillies. 

Hey Old Scaley

Rightio, sounds good. I think the next time I go out in the bay I might bring some pillies, they seem to be a far better bait than in the middle reaches of the river.

Cheers Hamish  

[jon]

Excellent plan b that’s for sure. Good work

[jon]

Are they all schoolies or are there a couple small Spanish amongst them? 

Edited May 13, 2020 by jon

[Old Scaley]

@jon I can see what you mean when I look at the photo but they were all schoolies when they came into the boat. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Old Scaley

[aussie123]

These are not schoolies,

These are Grey Mackerel and a nice catch here boys.

[benno573]

2 hours ago, Old Scaley said:

  Pretty sure we would have hit our bag (5 each) if we had more pillies. 

Assuming they were schoolies - you would have needed to lot more pillies as they have a bag limit of 10.

@aussie123 - how would one easily tell the difference between a schoolie and a grey mackerel? I’ve always used the white patch on the dorsal to denote a schoolie? Is there a defining feature of a grey Mack?

[aussie123]

Benno the Grey Macks have the spanish like bars instead of spots. 

They are often very hard to tell apart from normal Spanish when they first come onto the boat but once they die, the bars on the Greys fade badly where as the bars on the Spanish stay nice and bright.

[benno573]

Ok. Does the grey have the white patch on the dorsal fin? I thought they had a black patch?

 

These look exactly like “schoolies” I have caught previously that all had the white patch - as they die the tend to get a mix of spots near the tail and bars towards the head, they aren’t always obvious until some time after death though.  I thought greys were a deeper body like a sharky Mack and had bars all along?

 

Just want to make sure I’m not identifying wrongly given one is a 50cm legal size and the other is 60!

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

8 minutes ago, benno573 said:

Just want to make sure I’m not identifying wrongly given one is a 50cm legal size and the other is 60!

Hey benno573

Yes, I was thinking exactly that. How would you tell them apart on capture? It might be difficult with a spano and a grey too. I will be interested to see the replies, that's for sure.  

Cheers Hamish

[aussie123]

These are definitely not schoolies.

I just found some rough kill shots that show spanish, greys and schoolies all mixed in so you can get an idea on their differences when they are chilling out together.

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

Hey aussie123

Thanks for that, I can now see how you mean the fading away of bands on one and how they look.

Cheers Hamish  

[aussie123]

2 minutes ago, AUS-BNE-FISHO said:

Hey aussie123

Thanks for that, I can now see how you mean the fading away of bands on one and how they look.

Cheers Hamish  

Yes Hamish, the Greys tend to fade right out after dying where as the Spanish stay much brighter.

Often they are very hard to tell the difference and we were letting all the Spanish go the day we caught these fish but several Spanish found their way into the box by mistaken identity.

We also let go a lot of possible large Greys that day that we could not really identify properly without killing them first so better to be alive and swimming than dead and wasted.

[kmcrosby78]

Geez, what a pair of amateurs, not only can't they catch a single squid (makes me feel better after only catching one, but I was hampered by having to continually cast for my junior deckhands .....), but they don't even know what sort of mackerel they caught, and don't even know the bag limit of the species of mackerel they 'thought' they caught .......... luckily they know what grinners look like (I wonder why ......... ) .

On a serious note, great plan B there fellas, well done  Any theories on the lack of squid action? For the incoming tide first up, what direction was the wind blowing? The day we went (and struggled) it was blowing from the SE, which meant the wind was blowing us into the channel, against the incoming tide.

[Andrew_P]

They look like small Spanish to me. Grey macks are known as broad barred mackerel as the gap between the bars is greater than Spanish (aka narrow barred mackerel). Grey macks have different proportioned heads and dorsal/anal fins. MLS 60cm bag 5. Schoolies Have large, indistinct spots larger than their eye but do not have any stripes at all, ever. MLS 50cm bag 10. Spotties have lots of small spots smaller than the eye  - mls 60cm bag 5.

Minimum legal size is 75cm for Spanish with a bag of 3 and new boat limit of 6
 
Here is some info from Fisheries Qld webpage. 
https://www.daf.qld.gov.au/fish-identification-information/fish-species-guide/fish-species-id-info/profile?fish-id=spanish-mackerel

 

[Drop Bear]

12 hours ago, aussie123 said:

These are definitely not schoolies.

I just found some rough kill shots that show spanish, greys and schoolies all mixed in so you can get an idea on their differences when they are chilling out together.

Awesome photo mate. Thanks for that. Spero also identified them as Greys but he calls them Barred Mackerel. Seems like they have many names including;

Broad banded mackerel

Broad banded Spanish mackerel

Broad barred king mackerel

broad barred mackerel

broad barred Spanish mackerel

broad barred spaniard mackerel

brownie

grey mackerel

grey Spanish mackerel

striped mackerel

striped school mackerel

tiger mackerel.

Gah! what a mess!

Lucky we have Aussie here to sort it all out for us. Thanks mate. 

[Drop Bear]

2 hours ago, Andrew_P said:

They look like small Spanish to me. Grey macks are known as broad barred mackerel as the gap between the bars is greater than Spanish (aka narrow barred mackerel). Grey macks have different proportioned heads and dorsal/anal fins. MLS 60cm bag 5. Schoolies Have large, indistinct spots larger than their eye but do not have any stripes at all, ever. MLS 50cm bag 10. Spotties have lots of small spots smaller than the eye  - mls 60cm bag 5.

Minimum legal size is 75cm for Spanish with a bag of 3 and new boat limit of 6
 
Here is some info from Fisheries Qld webpage. 
https://www.daf.qld.gov.au/fish-identification-information/fish-species-guide/fish-species-id-info/profile?fish-id=spanish-mackerel

 

Spanish have much narrower bars and don't have the spots that these have. Spanish have bars that run to the tail while the greys (aka broad-barred mackerel) have spots to the tail. 

Here is another photo, from a different angle, where you can see the broad bands and the spots on the tails. 

 

[Drop Bear]

12 hours ago, kmcrosby78 said:

Geez, what a pair of amateurs, not only can't they catch a single squid (makes me feel better after only catching one, but I was hampered by having to continually cast for my junior deckhands .....), but they don't even know what sort of mackerel they caught, and don't even know the bag limit of the species of mackerel they 'thought' they caught .......... luckily they know what grinners look like (I wonder why ......... ) .

On a serious note, great plan B there fellas, well done  Any theories on the lack of squid action? For the incoming tide first up, what direction was the wind blowing? The day we went (and struggled) it was blowing from the SE, which meant the wind was blowing us into the channel, against the incoming tide.

The water temp was down to around 20. I think the big tigers move away after the water temp drops? dunno. just a guess but I have always done best in Feb March and April. 

The wind was a nasty 15 knots from the south and against the tide. 

[Andrew_P]

26 minutes ago, Drop Bear said:

Spanish have much narrower bars and don't have the spots that these have. Spanish have bars that run to the tail while the greys (aka broad-barred mackerel) have spots to the tail. 

Here is another photo, from a different angle, where you can see the broad bands and the spots on the tails. 

 

Not grey, cos greys dont have spots, and not school, cos schoolies dont have stripes. 

The question is, would you feel confident with your ID when boating patrol were about to look in your esky?

[Drop Bear]

10 minutes ago, Andrew_P said:

Not grey, cos greys dont have spots, and not school, cos schoolies dont have stripes. 

The question is, would you feel confident with your ID when boating patrol were about to look in your esky?

Cheer up buddy and accept it when you are wrong. There is no fire here no need to start one.

[Old Scaley]

One thing for sure is that the next time I am fishing for mackerel I will make sure that I take the laminated fish ID sheet that I have in my boat and will check each fish. Thanks for your input everyone, I guess it really is “back to schoolies” for me. I have learned a few things from this topic and look forward to putting them into practice next trip. Stay tuned.

[Andrew_P]

3 minutes ago, Drop Bear said:

Cheer up buddy and accept it when you are wrong. There is no fire here no need to start one.

I'm not starting anything mate - all my posts are to inform. My job is to ID fish and teach people (including rec fishers) about fish ID. I have provided information from fisheries website to assist. Happy to chat about it, you have my mobile number

[ellicat]

Keep it nice people. No need for inflammatory remarks. Everyone can have an opinion on a clearly grey area. (pun intended).

[kmcrosby78]

8 hours ago, Drop Bear said:

The water temp was down to around 20. I think the big tigers move away after the water temp drops? dunno. just a guess but I have always done best in Feb March and April. 

The wind was a nasty 15 knots from the south and against the tide. 

Interesting - basically same wind/tide combo that I struggled with, think we may have cracked a pattern (that doesn't work .....) .

Edited May 14, 2020 by kmcrosby78
Keep Angry51 happy ..... :)

[Angry51]

" patter " And I thought you was a teacher?

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

19 hours ago, aussie123 said:

Yes Hamish, the Greys tend to fade right out after dying where as the Spanish stay much brighter.

Often they are very hard to tell the difference and we were letting all the Spanish go the day we caught these fish but several Spanish found their way into the box by mistaken identity.

We also let go a lot of possible large Greys that day that we could not really identify properly without killing them first so better to be alive and swimming than dead and wasted.

Hi aussie123

Thanks for that, it must be slightly frustrating having to let them all go when they are a great table fish. I suppose it is better to be safe than sorry.  

6 hours ago, Drop Bear said:

Awesome photo mate. Thanks for that. Spero also identified them as Greys but he calls them Barred Mackerel. Seems like they have many names including;

Broad banded mackerel

Broad banded Spanish mackerel

Broad barred king mackerel

broad barred mackerel

broad barred Spanish mackerel

broad barred spaniard mackerel

brownie

grey mackerel

grey Spanish mackerel

striped mackerel

striped school mackerel

tiger mackerel.

Gah! what a mess!

Lucky we have Aussie here to sort it all out for us. Thanks mate. 

Hey Drop Bear

Geez, never would've known that there are so many names for one fish. It would be very confusing if there was a group of people, and each person called a grey mackerel a different name! LOL. 

6 hours ago, Andrew_P said:

Not grey, cos greys dont have spots, and not school, cos schoolies dont have stripes. 

 

6 hours ago, Drop Bear said:

Spanish have much narrower bars and don't have the spots that these have. Spanish have bars that run to the tail while the greys (aka broad-barred mackerel) have spots to the tail. 

Here is another photo, from a different angle, where you can see the broad bands and the spots on the tails. 

Hi Drop Bear and Andrew P

OK, so this is what I understand the ID-ing to be. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I am very curious. 

The school mackerel have about spots half way up their body. They are distinct spots. Almost like a spotty. I don't know what differences scientifically but the ones I can make out are school macks have less spots, and have a smaller size limit. This is a quick picture I snipped out for one to do the features - 

Sorry for the messy-ness, it is quite hard writing with a mouse, LOL. If I were to differentiate a schoolie and a spotty that is what I'd be going off. The spotty mack, on the other hand, has spots up to it's head. It has a higher size limit and seems to be a higher sought after target (I haven't heard much about school macks when I read fishing mags). Saying that, I am no expert so I don't really know. The spotty mack looks like this one, correct? 

 Then, the Grey Mackerel seems to be closer looking than the Spanish. The main problem with this is that you don't know which is which until dead. With the grey though, while it does fade, it seems to have spots to the tail, not quite stripes. Like this - 

Finally, it seems a spaniard or spanish mackerel has lines going all the way down - 

So, from this, my main question is do the grey's have spots on the back of the tail or do they have bars just like the Spanish? 

Sorry if this is misleading/wrong by the way, I'm more than happy to be corrected. Just decided to do this in my break for school today because I wanted to know more about ID-ing these fish. 

Cheers Hamish  

 

[kmcrosby78]

5 hours ago, Angry51 said:

" patter " And I thought you was a teacher?

Ownli A p.E teechr ........... 

[Angry51]

You're forgiven, don't let it happen again.

[AUS-BNE-FISHO]

8 hours ago, Drop Bear said:

The water temp was down to around 20. I think the big tigers move away after the water temp drops? dunno. just a guess but I have always done best in Feb March and April. 

The wind was a nasty 15 knots from the south and against the tide. 

 

6 hours ago, kmcrosby78 said:

Interesting - basically same wind/tide combo that I struggled with, think we may have cracked a pattern (that doesn't work .....) .

Hi Drop Bear and kmcrosby78

Seems like you might've found a pattern (like you say above). I wonder if the bay fishes badly on that weather and it is not worth fishing for squid in that weather. I guess it may well be, so hopefully you have so if it's that tide you know what to focus on.  

Cheers Hamish 

[tugger]

Nice box of Mackies Steve and Robbie I love it when plan b comes together 

[Drop Bear]

On 17/05/2020 at 12:20 PM, tugger said:

Nice box of Mackies Steve and Robbie I love it when plan b comes together 

They have been so delicious. Keen to get out again when this wind drops. 

[Hweebe]

12 hours ago, Drop Bear said:

They have been so delicious. Keen to get out again when this wind drops. 

What’s your preferred way of cooking up the macs?

[Drop Bear]

On 19/05/2020 at 12:51 AM, Hweebe said:

What’s your preferred way of cooking up the macs?

I like to mix it up. The little ones like schools, spotty, greys etc i fillet. I don't always skin but do sometimes. 

The Big Spanish I steak some of it and fillet some of it. 

They all make great sashimi.

Easy to put the steaks on the BBQ and delicious. 

They are a very versatile fish and you can do them lots of way. 

Ceviche is delicious and so is bear batter or tempura.

They are great Mediterranean style too with olives and tomatoes with basil.  

I don't ever eat them whole however. 

[kmcrosby78]

3 hours ago, Drop Bear said:

I don't ever eat them whole however. 

Ahah - so that’s how you lost all that weight ..... .  Probably safer too as otherwise their bones could get stuck ....

[MadCrabber]

Are Grinners useful for bait ?

 

[kmcrosby78]

6 hours ago, MadCrabber said:

Are Grinners useful for bait ?

 

Our resident grinner expert @Old Scaley (if you need tips on catching them send him a PM .... ) will be able to answer that mate

Edited September 14, 2020 by kmcrosby78
fat fingers .....

[Junky]

32 minutes ago, MadCrabber said:

Are Grinners useful for bait ?

 

Run the fillets off and they are.